- cross-posted to:
- europe@feddit.de
- cross-posted to:
- europe@feddit.de
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The EU has a lot more to lose than the US if Ukraine falls.
when
The US is effectively acting as a guarantor of EU safety, the EU should let us fly our sick people over there for treatment IMO. Because our sick staying sick are the reason we can afford to have a military that could arm the entire world. Their safety is being subsidized by US citizens health.
“Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children.”
A quote from a US President that I think means more than some sourceless internet comments implying the size of US millitary has nothing to do with the US’s lack of social servies. Argue with the president.
Never thought I’d get this much flac for arguing that the over funding the US military negatively impacts the US’s social welfare on lemmy of all places.
US spends more on healthcare per capita than any other country. The reason why you can’t afford medical bills is because of for-profit health insurance companies. They pocket billions every year.
They spend more and get less, look at the deliverables not the money spent. The US also has among the highest costs of healthcare, of course they spend more, it costs 30k to have a baby there, that doesn’t mean they’re getting child bearing care Europeans are not.
The reason we have companies with this much power is that the government stays out of healthcare and doesn’t help negotiate prices. Probably because they’re busy finding lower bidders for their Military projects. Theres no world in which US citizens don’t incur suffering to fund their military. The US even at peacetime is running more military operations than the next ten militaries if you count all their overseas bases. All of that takes time money and labor away from social needs, necessarily.
Or you could just get rid of predatory insurance companies.
And Europe could pay for its own wars but it doesn’t.
Talks about serious military spending increase are on the rise in Europe, because of Trump. US is no longer a reliable ally.
The US could cut its military budget by half and still continue to do what they do
They waste a huge amount of money for literally nothing just like their police force
There are too many ineffective middlemen
Source for that wild claim that half of the largest budget in the US doesn’t go to weapons manufacturing, soldiers, or necessary administration? If the US budget was cut in half there would be a West Russia today. If you want safety in your continent to be guarenteed by American citizen suffering just say so like the rest of the Americans who support their own military but acting like the MIC has nothing to do with the state of social services in America is hilarious.
If the US budget was cut in half there would be a West Russia today.
The US military budget (USD 877 bn) is larger than those of the next ten militaries put together (USD 849 bn). Also three of those ten (UK, Germany and France) are NATO members, and another three (Japan, S Korea and Ukraine) are all-weather allies. If the US decided to cut its military budget by 50%, it would still have a larger budget than the next two (China and Russia) combined.
Source: https://www.sipri.org/sites/default/files/2023-04/2304_fs_milex_2022.pdf
Okay and that means what? That doesn’t imply 50% of the money is simply wasted. The US is aiding Ukraine now, posturing to aide Taiwan, also theyre making buzz about operations in Haiti, and have hundreds of bases over the world and you think absolutely none of that comes at the expense of their citizens who live below the QOL of more than most countries as rich as them?
Okay and that means what? That doesn’t imply 50% of the money is simply wasted.
If the US can already outspend both its geopolitical rivals together at 50% of its current expenditure, then it does suggest that the other 50% is not achieving anything more.
you think absolutely none of that comes at the expense of their citizens who live below the QOL of more than most countries as rich as them?
I don’t. I was replying to the suggestion that the US military needs such a large budget in the first place.
If the US can already outspend both its geopolitical rivals together at 50% of its current expenditure, then it does suggest that the other 50% is not achieving anything more.
Thats not how militaries work. Money doesn’t fight other money. Unless they all develop, order, and make the same tech, and employ the exact same steategies you can’t even begin to make that comparison. The US likes to spend its money on things and programs it considers ‘deterrants’. Deterrance inherently cost much more than Destruction. Simply spending more money does not win wars and it’s assanine to think forces of equal monetary value are necessarily equal. My only point is that the US military funds comes at the expense of the US population. No where have I tried to justify their budget, and simply refusing to believe 50% of it disappears to middlemen is not a support of the military, it’s a rebuke of an obviously blown out of proportion claim. Let’s take an example, do you think Russia or the US spends more effort on making sure its soldiers come back home, and which option do you think costs more money?
The US spends more than the next two superpowers, and they also occupy/defend more territory than the next 10 since we can now say today European security is dependent on American money and weapons. Not to mention the US collab with Isreal for security in that whole region, and the over 700 military bases across the world. Again this is all money American citizens are giving up, so that people much much closer to a problem that will never effect them dont have to sacrifice as much. People love running to America when they have military needs their country wont fulfill, but no one wants to consider helping Americans with needs their country won’t fulfill.
Money doesn’t fight other money.
I know. Defence expenditure is just a quick and dirty estimate, so I don’t have to compare their assets gun by gun and ship by ship. Of course it won’t be 100% accurate, but when you are spending double what both your main opponents are spending, it suggests that there is something wrong.
simply refusing to believe 50% of it disappears to middlemen
More like ‘50% or so is unnecessary expenditure authorised by politicians for their friends in business’.
they also occupy/defend more territory than the next 10
Well that’s the problem, isn’t it? Recent wars have shown that the defender usually has a strong advantage. The US could keep its borders (and any allied countries) safe for a fraction of its current budget. It’s the ‘invading random countries’ part that costs tons of money.
And you blame Europe for America’s bad financing and decisions to arm their opponents?
America doesn’t do things so that other countries don’t have to sacrifice as much… why do people think countries and companies have feelings
America runs on military so they need to keep demand up, US weapons companies spend money on lobbying and politicians who can affect US military outcomes own stocks in those companies
Why would politicians cut down on military budget when every increase in it also increases their net worth?
I love that you believe Russia equals danger. It’s just such a perfect snapshot of the brain rot of Western culture. There’s literally no ability to imagine a world where Russia is just a secure and developed country that collaborates with the world. It’s only possible that Russia is always evil. It’s such transparent propaganda for anyone in the world but somehow the “highly educated” white Americans and English just can’t see it.
US citizens don’t lack access to those things because of a lack of budget. The threat of homelessness, hunger, and health insecurity are all forms of worker discipline. The barrier to solving those things is ideological, not budgetary.
And why do you think the US keeps playing this role in Europe? What possible motive could they have?
To keep spying on their allies like was uncovered years bacn and promoting their corporate interests, same as much of Europe does to Africa, I’m not sure how that diminishes the fact that US citizens suffering is fuling the budgets that Ukraine gets, I got no problem they get that money, but Europe could stand to give what they can and they have a robust health network, not a robust military complex. You act like the corporate neo colonialism is benefitting US citizens and easing their suffering when all it does is boost the stock market lining the pockets of those who funded the economic colonialism in the first place. The US is the last country on earth this Russian Invasion would materially effect yet they’re doing more legwork than countries that can heard the missle blasts.
boost the stock market lining the pockets of those who funded the economic colonialism in the first place.
The global ruling U.S capitalists, and their compradores, plus their total professional managerial classes and small propertarians would benefit by that logic.
But if you work and live for just a wage, or are the lumpenproles, or “the poors, especially the homeless drug users”, who, coincidentally make up our majority, well, that’s utter piss for ye guys…
The global ruling U.S capitalists, and their compradores, plus their total professional managerial classes and small propertarians would benefit by that logic
How very nice for the 10% or so of the population that benefits and was never suffering in the first place. It’s nice to know that the rich in the US still get a piece of the pie.
Also, thats how every capitalist country works though, look at the industry in France or even countries in Scandinavia do the same thing to Africa. Their populations dont get much if anything from it, but their capitalist class does. None of that diminishes the problems either population feels, and we all know these capitalists are barely paying tax if at all. They practically not even citizens of wherever they choose to be.
Oh… ogey then, I think I got my mind in a twist of what I intended to say about them… (WTF was I saying)
Id like to see more of that type of internationalism in the world. I think thats a great idea.
Theres no way it will ever happen tho, because neither us nor our votes decide these things. Its the capitalists who decide, and they chose a private for profit model of health insurance.
That’s an interesting headline… what did they expect instead? “After 18 months of only giving Ukraine a fraction of what we can spare for laughs and giggles we now probably need to actually support them for once to replace the missing US aid”?
How much money would be enough so that you don’t call it laughs and giggles anymore?
Enough that the largest economic bloc in the world is able to support their neighbor and ally without depending on a single country on a different continent.
Give me a number pls
After 18 months of only giving Ukraine a fraction of what we can spare for laughs and giggles we now probably need to actually support them for once to replace the missing US aid
Are you really that daft? In one year the aid sent to Ukraine exceeded the entire annual military budget of Russia
You are really not getting the most obvious sarcasm possible?
Sorry, I thought you were arguing that the US hadn’t provided enough.
I was arguing that “The EU can’t replace US support” isn’t news. Just like “the US can’t replace EU support wouldn’t be news”. That’s basically just saying the EU (or US) is not able to just double their support on a whim. If they could it would also mean they gave only a fraction of what they could give for no actual reason but letting someone else do the work.
What will Biden sacrifice to pass Ukrainian aid through the budget? Healthcare? Education? Social support? Clean energy? Semiconductors? Space exploration? The prevailing position in Washington is that China is the greater threat to American hegemony, so how much is Biden willing to cut to fight a war against Russia?
He’s lacking power in the House and Republicans will gladly extract concessions out of him leading up to the next election.
Ohh cut the drama already, that’s just bzseless speculation.
I mean the Republican Party acts in benefit of Russia at every opportunity. They’re gonna ramp up the faux news propaganda, vilify ukraine using ork rhetoric that their brain dead supporters fall for, and make it a wedge issue in 2024. Guaranteed.
Ah yes, stop worrying that the government is investing in a proxy war while the country is falling apart.
