Not in a position to create an actual ML chapter but really don’t feel like dealing with Trots. Any advice?
A lot of people on the Dutch socialist subreddit consider themselves Trotskyist and while some of the things they say make sense, I can’t agree with everything they say. And it’s not some minor difference in opinion either, it often gets to arguments between ML and the Trots.
A lot of what we can’t seem to agree about is critical support for AES. They seem to live in a delusion that a ‘perfect’ revolution can happen and afterwards we can just press the red communism button. They also parrot CIA propaganda about China for example.
So to some degree it might be useful to join an org to see how it runs etc. If they have basic marxist education that’s great too. But be aware about major differences in view that may occur.
I think I agree with this. I will probably have a look around their spaces (ie: discord group and the like) to scope it out and make a decision based on that. Out of principle I want to make it work in some way shape or form given I’m indigenous and promoting indigenous issues through means other than socialism is so alien to me. If they can’t handle differing (and uncompromising) views on AES and the revolution then that’s on them but hopefully that kind of thing won’t be too relevant if we’re actually doing work within the community.
Hey, you could get really good at handing out newspapers to college students 🤣
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Are you capable of standing out like a sore thumb? Do you have the necessary constitution to argue with a whole group of dogmatic losers at the same time with little or no support? Do you relish the opportunity to upset everyone in the same room as you and to be a generally unwelcome addition to the group? If so then please consider joining the Trots and vocally opposing everything they have to say. Its the only way the other students will ever stand a chance of slipping the net of the ideological trap that is Trotskyism. Our forebears had to walk into hostile environments and fight tooth and nail, firstly to popularise Marxism, secondly to ideologically defeat their enemies, be it chauvinism, Fabianism or Narodism. If we can’t face up to the Trots then they will only maintain their stranglehold on the universities. We need bruisers who can expose these idiots for what they are, people who aren’t afraid to be critical. Criticism is the beating heart of Marxism. If we can’t criticise these people and their terrible ideas then we’re letting down the movement.
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It… might be worth joining or at least working with them when they do actions, but just be careful I would say. They’ll probably try pretty hard to convince you of nonsense like Chinese imperialism or obsessing over Stalin’s betrayal etc.
I would definitely get into contact with them if they’re your only option, but becoming a full-fledged member might just be a recipe for anger. If it’s a uni-sanctioned group/club, it’s functionally different from an actual party so it might be worth joining even if you have to struggle against some of the worse ideas. You might even meet some disgruntled MLs or baby communists who joined up in spite of the Trotskyism like you.
From what I’ve seen they mostly just educate people on capitalism and how socialism is much better, obviously, this is good. Anti-China rhetoric in Socialist circles is just such a shame sometimes, I really feel like one of the most important duties of a modern Marxist is supporting China
I have to second what @SovereignState said, but kinda think about how tenable it would be for you to constantly have to be in guard mode, if that makes sense. As they said, you’ll probably be bombarded with the standard trot nonsense, so constantly having to be on the lookout for things like that might be very stressful, and could result in unnecessary conflict between yourself and members. If you were to get into their circles, I’d stay on the edge as much as possible. Meaning, maintain some distance between yourself and party actions you might disagree with.
Or hell, maybe disclose that you’re an ML just for fun. Worst case scenario, they just say you’re not welcome. Best case scenario, they point you in the direction of a more suitable org.
I’d say no. Trotskyism is incompatible with Marxism-Leninism and, to be honest, extremely ineffective as a means of political action. You’d be better off trying to create an ML organisation.
Join the Trotskyists > Argue vociferously with the Trotskyists > Win over the other students just joining the organisation > Invite these students to an independent reading group run by yourself > Sup on the forbidden knowledge of Joey Steel > organise your faction > Run a slate for the Trotskyists’ branch committee elections, composed of yourself and your key supporters > Sweep the committee elections > Impose a Marxist-Leninist line, forbidding factionalism > Eject the inevitable factionalists that ignore this > Congratulations, you’ve just created a Marxist-Leninist university group while at the same time defeating a Trotskyist one.
Yes, but if I were you, I would be upfront about my politics with them first, or at least after a few days; infiltration should not be the goal. If they’re lonely then they’ll very probably allow some open “Stalinoids” in their ranks, maybe in hopes of shaping their politics over time. Try to avoid being intentionally confrontational, as that’s extremely unlikely to help anybody. The more that you build up trust by helping them, the less sectarian drama that you’ll have. Sooner or later you’ll have some clashes, of course, but if you can remain patient and build up trust, your clashes should be less stressful.
Several weeks ago I met an anarchist on Twitter who was going through tough times in her apartment. I gave her some cash, offered some resources that she could consult (like where to find more apartments), and a few days later I mentally prepared myself for a rejection before I explicitly admitted to her my ‘politically incorrect’ stance on the People’s Republic of China. She didn’t say much, but it hasn’t endangered our relationship at all.
Being a Good Samaritan can be difficult to do, and yes, there is a chance of it disappointing you in the end. But personally, I would not have regretted helping another poor person in need even if she did reject me over my politics.
Don’t judge them for being trots, judge them for what their actual political lines is, what they do and say. If they’re not sectarian and do good activities they will be more than welcome for you to go along as an independent, and you make a clear distinction as a marxist leninist.
