And no, that’s not our system, a ped will consider the information provided by a psych, but generally someone from allied health or a GP will have already referred to various professions before they see the ped.
Boomer doctors aren’t dead yet, and haven’t learned anything since the 70s.
But seriously, think about whatever industry you’re in. Surely there are the ‘old guys’ who haven’t kept up with the progress, but are still around kind of doing a poor job of things. Not all old people, surely, but a fair number. At least, that’s how it is in IT.
That still doesn’t mean they recommend “abuse.” Every doctor in the US must renew their medical license every few years and that means taking continuing medical education classes. Nobody is recommending therapy from the 70s anymore.
Also, it’s still vague about what this “abuse” is so it’s hard to debunk a vague accusation.
This article is really really good, I think it deserves to be a post of it’s own. This quote is the best description of the way I experience being verbal that I’ve found:
When you are autistic, talking can be exhausting. Even if you are extremely verbal like I am – adults praised my precocious vocabulary as a child, and I have often been called a “chatterbox” – vocal speech is draining. My well of words may be deeper than that of most other autistic people, but it is not bottomless.
I have a distinct recollection of professors at a UNC Chapel Hill department cocktail party comparing notes on their psychoanalysts in the late 2000’s.
It was a poor attempt at humor. Sorry. EDIT: oh, it’s you. Hello Newman. Destroyer of humor. Psychoanalysts can have MDs. They’re a relic of one aspect of health that mainly and rightly died out in the 70s. There.
Damn, it sounds like you’re lumping a bunch of people into a one size fits all category, telling me everything I need to know about you. (I believe that 70% of people are liquid, so that should tell you everything you need to know about me)
Just got around to replying and I’ll use this as my reply to you and Cryo…
If an individual person (not a group of people in case that’s not obvious enough) makes statements like all the black people I know are criminals, all the Jewish people I’ve ever met only care about money, every woman I’ve ever dealt with is emotional, boomer doctors aren’t dead yet and haven’t learned anything since the 1970s
Then yes in general I kinda think that tells me all I need to know about that person, they are using blanket statements about groups of people which is pretty idiotic, they later said they were being hyperbolic, okay fine still a dumb statement however
Do I need to have receipts to show that pre teens and teens generally have less knowledge than 30 year olds? Pretty sure I don’t because I wasn’t arguing what you are posting receipts about
Of course aging affects skills and abilities and when you start to get to the end of lifespans, memory and knowledge can also fall off, I’m not saying that doesn’t happen I replied to the idiotic statement that “Boomer doctors aren’t dead yet, and haven’t learned anything since the 70s.”
Ah, well, I can’t exactly force you to understand hyperbole. The fact that the next phrase was “but seriously” should have indicated the lack of seriousness of the first statement.
I understand hyperbole, that’s my whole problem, hyperbole used in arguments is like trying to argue with a chimp at that point
Now if what you actually meant was that you were being sarcastic then that’s fine I can get in on the joke you are attempting to make but I can’t exactly force you to understand sarcasm
I thought it stood for American Bar Association. I still do, since no other definition was offered. I would disagree that the American Bar Association is abuse.
It’s funny that someone is so triggered by implications that ABA even exists that they downvoted you for factually pointing out what the acronym stands for.
I just searched “aba therapy near me” and “aba therapy clinic” and got dozens of results. They’re not close-but-not-exact matches, either. These are places that literally describe themselves on their home page as focusing on delivering ABA services to children.
Considering referrals issued by a licensed doctor are considered confidential, and illegal to share without patient consent in many areas, the ability/inability to present such a referral as evidence is not a good criteria for whether it happens or not. But the prevalence of specialists that offer these services certainly indicates that specialists are finding it a profitable business model. I suppose it is possible that the vast majority of their business does not come from doctor referrals, but that seems unlikely.
A lazy google search you didn’t even bother to cite is not proof. You’re not going to find licensed MDs or DOs endorsing this practice, because it’s outdated and warned against in CME (ergo anyone who has a current medical license had training on what the actual therapies are), though I can’t speak to psychologists as they run the gamut of modern medicine to neo-Freud.
You’re letting your prejudices against doctors override the reality of todays healthcare.
As I pointed out, your demand for examples of licensed doctors providing formal referrals as the only acceptable proof is ridiculous. In the US that is covered by HIPAA, and illegal to share without permission from the patient. You’re essentially saying “the only proof I will accept is anecdotal evidence provided by a patient willing to share their confidential medical records.” The fact that you skipped right over addressing that when it was pointed out suggests that you are operating out of a position of emotional investment, rather than actual interest in discussion.
The fact that I actually provided you the google searches I used, then to have you not only refuse to bother trying then but also pretend that I never supplied them in the first place (pro-tip: “I googled the phrase ‘aba therapy clinic’” is functionally the same as “https://www.google.com/search?q=aba+therapy+clinic”) just makes it more hilariously clear that you started with a position (that doctors are reliable and would never do anything abusive), and are simply approaching discussion by looking for ways to immediately discredit and dismiss any and all statements that don’t agree with your preconceived worldview.
The funny part is that I don’t even know if ABA is “abuse”. There’s certainly a lot of literature about how it was, but more recent material claims that the most egregious elements of abuse have been removed. I only chimed in to point out that ABA is absolutely a current thing, despite your hilarious attempts to insist otherwise. Your imaginations of my own “prejudice” mixed with your mewlings about “the reality of today’s healthcare” only add to the humor of your clownish responses.
But yeah, let’s just go with “ABA doesn’t exist any more because no one is showing me an actual physical referral from a doctor specifying ABA on it” so you can pat yourself on the back and feel safe from being wrong on the internet :D
Did you even bother to read your own links? The first one has no physicians and doesn’t need a referral by one, they said ABA is given by “Board Certified Behavior Analyst (BCBA) and highly trained Behavior Therapist (BT) or Registered Behavior Technician (RBT).” Those aren’t doctors.
Once again, your anger is misplaced; I never said ABA doesn’t exist but I said you don’t see licensed physicians referring people to it. Go back and read again since you must have missed that in your anger. You’re insisting on a Google search without understanding what you’re looking at. HIPAA is not an excuse when the therapies are publicly advertised, and you have failed to prove your claims. Have a nice day.
Who wrote this rubbish? Doctors aren’t willingly recommending abuse, and most of them refer to specialists.
Depends how long ago. There’s still an old ped in my city that doesn’t believe in autism and ADHD.
Or where geographically. Some places are more backwards than others.
For real. The “works for me so you are a liar” vibes in this comment section is making me sad.
If he or she is still licensed, report them to the state medical board. They should be referring people to a psych specialist anyway.
I am not in the US.
And no, that’s not our system, a ped will consider the information provided by a psych, but generally someone from allied health or a GP will have already referred to various professions before they see the ped.
Boomer doctors aren’t dead yet, and haven’t learned anything since the 70s.
But seriously, think about whatever industry you’re in. Surely there are the ‘old guys’ who haven’t kept up with the progress, but are still around kind of doing a poor job of things. Not all old people, surely, but a fair number. At least, that’s how it is in IT.
Apparently you have never heard of required CME’s.
That still doesn’t mean they recommend “abuse.” Every doctor in the US must renew their medical license every few years and that means taking continuing medical education classes. Nobody is recommending therapy from the 70s anymore.
Also, it’s still vague about what this “abuse” is so it’s hard to debunk a vague accusation.
https://neuroclastic.com/is-aba-really-dog-training-for-children-a-professional-dog-trainer-weighs-in/
ABA therapy. That is the abuse being referred to.
This article is really really good, I think it deserves to be a post of it’s own. This quote is the best description of the way I experience being verbal that I’ve found:
So you’ve already made up your mind that it’s something that needs to be debunked before you even know what “abuse” refers to?
It’s shit like this that keeps hurting credibility of anyone defending established practices, right or wrong.
I have a distinct recollection of professors at a UNC Chapel Hill department cocktail party comparing notes on their psychoanalysts in the late 2000’s.
Psychologists are not the same as physicians or psychiatrists. Your 20 year old anecdote isn’t proof of anything, sorry.
It was a poor attempt at humor. Sorry. EDIT: oh, it’s you. Hello Newman. Destroyer of humor. Psychoanalysts can have MDs. They’re a relic of one aspect of health that mainly and rightly died out in the 70s. There.
Ahh yes old people are dumb and bad, what a highly enlightened take you have there, you spend way too much time online
Anyone who willingly lumps a bunch of people into a one size fits all category tells me all I need to know about that person
Not sure if intentional, but hilarious either way
Damn, it sounds like you’re lumping a bunch of people into a one size fits all category, telling me everything I need to know about you. (I believe that 70% of people are liquid, so that should tell you everything you need to know about me)
Just got around to replying and I’ll use this as my reply to you and Cryo…
If an individual person (not a group of people in case that’s not obvious enough) makes statements like all the black people I know are criminals, all the Jewish people I’ve ever met only care about money, every woman I’ve ever dealt with is emotional, boomer doctors aren’t dead yet and haven’t learned anything since the 1970s
Then yes in general I kinda think that tells me all I need to know about that person, they are using blanket statements about groups of people which is pretty idiotic, they later said they were being hyperbolic, okay fine still a dumb statement however
deleted by creator
Okay so mostly all old people… got it.
And only in your limited worldview in your profession… somehow that didn’t seem to make it any better of an argument for me
You work in IT yet seem to know the training levels and requirements for doctors or perhaps you are just generalizing once again
I hate that I’m annoyed enough to provide receipts for something so obvious as “skills and ability decline with age”
https://www.bmj.com/content/357/bmj.j1797
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28394065/
Do I need to have receipts to show that pre teens and teens generally have less knowledge than 30 year olds? Pretty sure I don’t because I wasn’t arguing what you are posting receipts about
Of course aging affects skills and abilities and when you start to get to the end of lifespans, memory and knowledge can also fall off, I’m not saying that doesn’t happen I replied to the idiotic statement that “Boomer doctors aren’t dead yet, and haven’t learned anything since the 70s.”
A blanket statement of idiocy is what that is.
Ah, well, I can’t exactly force you to understand hyperbole. The fact that the next phrase was “but seriously” should have indicated the lack of seriousness of the first statement.
I understand hyperbole, that’s my whole problem, hyperbole used in arguments is like trying to argue with a chimp at that point
Now if what you actually meant was that you were being sarcastic then that’s fine I can get in on the joke you are attempting to make but I can’t exactly force you to understand sarcasm
ABA is abuse and very commonly recommended to autistic people (or more often, forced on autistic kids by parents).
Oh is that what ABA stands for?
I thought it stood for American Bar Association. I still do, since no other definition was offered. I would disagree that the American Bar Association is abuse.
It refers to Applied Behavioural Analysis.
It’s funny that someone is so triggered by implications that ABA even exists that they downvoted you for factually pointing out what the acronym stands for.
Please show me where a currently licensed doctor is referring people to it.
I just searched “aba therapy near me” and “aba therapy clinic” and got dozens of results. They’re not close-but-not-exact matches, either. These are places that literally describe themselves on their home page as focusing on delivering ABA services to children.
Considering referrals issued by a licensed doctor are considered confidential, and illegal to share without patient consent in many areas, the ability/inability to present such a referral as evidence is not a good criteria for whether it happens or not. But the prevalence of specialists that offer these services certainly indicates that specialists are finding it a profitable business model. I suppose it is possible that the vast majority of their business does not come from doctor referrals, but that seems unlikely.
A lazy google search you didn’t even bother to cite is not proof. You’re not going to find licensed MDs or DOs endorsing this practice, because it’s outdated and warned against in CME (ergo anyone who has a current medical license had training on what the actual therapies are), though I can’t speak to psychologists as they run the gamut of modern medicine to neo-Freud.
You’re letting your prejudices against doctors override the reality of todays healthcare.
What you say is probably true for your country or region. It is not global. Variations are extreme.
Way to double down on your hypocrisy.
As I pointed out, your demand for examples of licensed doctors providing formal referrals as the only acceptable proof is ridiculous. In the US that is covered by HIPAA, and illegal to share without permission from the patient. You’re essentially saying “the only proof I will accept is anecdotal evidence provided by a patient willing to share their confidential medical records.” The fact that you skipped right over addressing that when it was pointed out suggests that you are operating out of a position of emotional investment, rather than actual interest in discussion.
The fact that I actually provided you the google searches I used, then to have you not only refuse to bother trying then but also pretend that I never supplied them in the first place (pro-tip: “I googled the phrase ‘aba therapy clinic’” is functionally the same as “https://www.google.com/search?q=aba+therapy+clinic”) just makes it more hilariously clear that you started with a position (that doctors are reliable and would never do anything abusive), and are simply approaching discussion by looking for ways to immediately discredit and dismiss any and all statements that don’t agree with your preconceived worldview.
The funny part is that I don’t even know if ABA is “abuse”. There’s certainly a lot of literature about how it was, but more recent material claims that the most egregious elements of abuse have been removed. I only chimed in to point out that ABA is absolutely a current thing, despite your hilarious attempts to insist otherwise. Your imaginations of my own “prejudice” mixed with your mewlings about “the reality of today’s healthcare” only add to the humor of your clownish responses.
Picking a random location (New Haven Connecticut), here are some clinics advertising ABA therapy: https://www.achievebeyondusa.com/locations/connecticut/ https://cultivatebhe.com/locations/connecticut/new-haven/ https://www.autismlearningpartners.com/locations/connecticut/new-haven-county/new-haven https://www.autismspeaks.org/provider/proud-moments-aba-new-haven (of course the ultra-shitty “Autism Speaks” currently endorses ABA!) https://www.abrandnewdayaba.com/
Here’s a couple of “top 10 ABA therapy providers in New Haven”: https://beaminghealth.com/aba-therapy/new-haven-06510/all https://m.yelp.com/search?find_desc=Aba+Therapy&find_loc=new+haven%2C+ct
But yeah, let’s just go with “ABA doesn’t exist any more because no one is showing me an actual physical referral from a doctor specifying ABA on it” so you can pat yourself on the back and feel safe from being wrong on the internet :D
Did you even bother to read your own links? The first one has no physicians and doesn’t need a referral by one, they said ABA is given by “Board Certified Behavior Analyst (BCBA) and highly trained Behavior Therapist (BT) or Registered Behavior Technician (RBT).” Those aren’t doctors.
Once again, your anger is misplaced; I never said ABA doesn’t exist but I said you don’t see licensed physicians referring people to it. Go back and read again since you must have missed that in your anger. You’re insisting on a Google search without understanding what you’re looking at. HIPAA is not an excuse when the therapies are publicly advertised, and you have failed to prove your claims. Have a nice day.