No I have not. And I’ll be honest there’s a lot of related socialist and communist reading that I probably haven’t done. Some of it because I have fundamental disagreements with the basic premise of many of them. Such as the all too common belief that Karl Marx’s figurative call for a dictatorship of proletariat. Was literal. Which happens to be the basic underpinning premise of Big C communism. And the ultimate failure of every group that has implemented it.
In my view at least. If everyone is the proletariat. Then by definition the proletariat has an effective dictatorship. Because no one but the proletariat would have a say. The problem with making the state etc the dictator. Is that they Don’t always understand or want to understand the needs and wants of different groups. China’s government has done a lot of infrastructure projects for instance. But extremely wastefully. Because it wasn’t for, or fulfilling of the people’s needs. It was for status and to flatter the vanity of the non proletariat in the government.
There are so many more ideologies and concepts under socialism than authoritarian communism. And it’s really a shame they don’t get more attention/recognition.
@Eldritch i would reccomend reading what these poeple had to say, it’ll clear up a lot of issues. theres also value in reading what your self proclaimed enemies have to say, even if its a very frustrating read.
a book from somebody i have good reason to not like was the book propaganda, thats the name of it by frueds nephew whose name im forgetting. this is also how i know the n@zis think im jewish for some reason(im not)
a good first read for socialism would be vlack shirts and reds
Oh it’s not that I don’t understand the sentiment etc for it. You have to understand something to have a hope of dismantling and countering it. I simply don’t have a strong desire to wade through it repeatedly for fun. I am largely anti authoritarian whether it’s any form of capitalism or the loose forms of socialism often used to slander the the general ideology as a whole.
I absolutely understand the misguided reasoning behind the desire for a strong central authority etc. It’s efficient, no duplication of hierarchy, resources, or conflicts in leadership. All you need to do is find someone who isn’t human in any way and subject to the ethical and moral flaws of humans. Maybe with AGI someday if it hasn’t killed us. But till then it’s a fools errand. For now authority should be as granular as reasonably possible. And preferably with those with the knowledge and motivation to lead where their self interest aligns with those they lead.
Again I’m not one that would argue that these systems were always nothing but hellscapes. Soviet Russia was a good example of a fairly nuanced instance. Disregarding the authoritarian annexing of large chunks of eastern europe. An in-arguably negative thing. There are plenty things that Soviet Russia did reasonably well. I just can’t say that makes up for the disappearances, the gulags, and the outright assassinations of dissidents or those the state deems as enemies. And sadly. Russia even as a net negative was the best of them. China is far worse about crushing dissidents. We even just had a notable anniversary related to that IIRC. And North Korea should go without saying. But it’s not the communism that’s the problem. It’s the flawed IE human authoritarian leadership.
@Eldritch you do have good points in here, by the way have you ever read state and revolution?
i think i may count as a big C communist that cant get their nose out of the books
No I have not. And I’ll be honest there’s a lot of related socialist and communist reading that I probably haven’t done. Some of it because I have fundamental disagreements with the basic premise of many of them. Such as the all too common belief that Karl Marx’s figurative call for a dictatorship of proletariat. Was literal. Which happens to be the basic underpinning premise of Big C communism. And the ultimate failure of every group that has implemented it.
In my view at least. If everyone is the proletariat. Then by definition the proletariat has an effective dictatorship. Because no one but the proletariat would have a say. The problem with making the state etc the dictator. Is that they Don’t always understand or want to understand the needs and wants of different groups. China’s government has done a lot of infrastructure projects for instance. But extremely wastefully. Because it wasn’t for, or fulfilling of the people’s needs. It was for status and to flatter the vanity of the non proletariat in the government.
There are so many more ideologies and concepts under socialism than authoritarian communism. And it’s really a shame they don’t get more attention/recognition.
@Eldritch i would reccomend reading what these poeple had to say, it’ll clear up a lot of issues. theres also value in reading what your self proclaimed enemies have to say, even if its a very frustrating read.
a book from somebody i have good reason to not like was the book propaganda, thats the name of it by frueds nephew whose name im forgetting. this is also how i know the n@zis think im jewish for some reason(im not)
a good first read for socialism would be vlack shirts and reds
Oh it’s not that I don’t understand the sentiment etc for it. You have to understand something to have a hope of dismantling and countering it. I simply don’t have a strong desire to wade through it repeatedly for fun. I am largely anti authoritarian whether it’s any form of capitalism or the loose forms of socialism often used to slander the the general ideology as a whole.
I absolutely understand the misguided reasoning behind the desire for a strong central authority etc. It’s efficient, no duplication of hierarchy, resources, or conflicts in leadership. All you need to do is find someone who isn’t human in any way and subject to the ethical and moral flaws of humans. Maybe with AGI someday if it hasn’t killed us. But till then it’s a fools errand. For now authority should be as granular as reasonably possible. And preferably with those with the knowledge and motivation to lead where their self interest aligns with those they lead.
Again I’m not one that would argue that these systems were always nothing but hellscapes. Soviet Russia was a good example of a fairly nuanced instance. Disregarding the authoritarian annexing of large chunks of eastern europe. An in-arguably negative thing. There are plenty things that Soviet Russia did reasonably well. I just can’t say that makes up for the disappearances, the gulags, and the outright assassinations of dissidents or those the state deems as enemies. And sadly. Russia even as a net negative was the best of them. China is far worse about crushing dissidents. We even just had a notable anniversary related to that IIRC. And North Korea should go without saying. But it’s not the communism that’s the problem. It’s the flawed IE human authoritarian leadership.