• barsoap@lemm.ee
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    1 year ago

    Russia has not been a part of ‘the west’, certainly not as far as most of the EU is concerned unless you’re trying to be intentionally obtuse

    It has been a colonial empire for quite a while now. Or do you really think this didn’t happen with military force? That it’s just the natural extent of the Russian nation? Or that the Empire didn’t brutally exploit every new territory they conquered? “Colony” doesn’t mean “overseas”.

    Every single larger, or affluent, European country engaged in colonialism.

    It’s pretty funny having iron crosses constantly showing up on all the UA vehicles

    That’s the Cossack cross. The Cossacks got it from the Templars, same root as the Iron Cross.

    The Ukrainian state has been killing civilians indiscriminately in its two breakaway regions

    Отъебись ватник блядь.

    • sharedburdens [she/her, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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      1 year ago

      Were the Russians also doing chattel slavery like the west was for literally hundreds of years? Like sure conditions for serfs weren’t great, but the transatlantic slave trade, the mass genocide of the americas, the subjugation of africa, india and china built the wealth of europe. You’re trying to act like these two things are the same and they’re not

      Отъебись ватник блядь.

      lmao

      seriously though:

      The Ukrainian state has been killing civilians indiscriminately in its two breakaway regions

      Where’s the lie? You guys think that’s a good thing. Link to more info

      • barsoap@lemm.ee
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        1 year ago

        Like sure conditions for serfs weren’t great,

        They were abhorrent. You’re really playing semantics here, conditions were essentially slave-like just as, say, Cuba under Batista.

        built the wealth of europe

        No. Water power did, Europe has an absurd number of suitable streams for grain mills which allowed the creation of extensive trade, merchant, and scholar classes – as they could be fed. Which led to technological superiority which led to the capacity to roll over other nations (and the presumption that it was the right thing to do). Without that pre-existing wealth all that colonising would not have been possible.

        Where’s the lie? You guys think that’s a good thing.

        You’re accusing me of condoning or advocating genocide?

        • sharedburdens [she/her, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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          1 year ago

          No. Water power did, Europe has an absurd number of suitable streams for grain mills allowing less the creation of extensive trade, merchant, and scholar classes. Which led to technological superiority which led to the capacity to roll over other nations (and the presumption that it was the right thing to do). Without that pre-existing wealth all that colonising would not have been possible.

          It was definitely the slavery

            • sharedburdens [she/her, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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              1 year ago

              Because they weren’t the ones working the slaves to death in Caribbean plantations. Have you read any history?

              Also there were plenty of indigenous slaves taken, whole generations worked to death in mines to send silver back to europe

                  • barsoap@lemm.ee
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                    1 year ago

                    …for centuries if not millennia at quite low ROI and then Europeans came along with fancy ships and the capacity to conquer more fertile places earning quite a bit more dough per slave.

                    As said: The primary cause of Europe’s wealth is early technological development, at scale, and in breadth, enabled because lots of food could be produced with comparatively small workforce.

        • sharedburdens [she/her, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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          1 year ago

          You’re accusing me of condoning or advocating genocide?

          You already told me to fuck off for pointing out that parts of Ukraine have been getting shelled by its own government for over 8 years, considering that response, yes that was my conclusion.

          • barsoap@lemm.ee
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            1 year ago

            You already told me to fuck off for pointing out that parts of Ukraine have been getting shelled by its own government for over 8 years,

            No. I told you to fuck off for this:

            The Ukrainian state has been killing civilians indiscriminately in its two breakaway regions

            Yes, Ukraine has been shelling Russian positions in those regions for quite a while now.

            • sharedburdens [she/her, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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              1 year ago

              Donetsk city has been routinely getting hit for years, it’s why the SMO started

              and again here you are cheerleading for indiscriminately killing civilians

              Yes, Ukraine has been shelling Russian positions in those regions for quite a while now.

              hitler-detector

              • barsoap@lemm.ee
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                1 year ago

                it’s why the SMO started

                A resounding no. The worst collateral damage happened under Poroshenko, one of the reasons why he lost against Zelenskyy.

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                    1 year ago

                    coup in 2014

                    Ватник отъебись сказал мне не слушаешь урод

        • sharedburdens [she/her, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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          1 year ago

          They were abhorrent. You’re really playing semantics here, conditions were essentially slave-like just as, say, Cuba under Batista.

          Yes it was bad, still not as bad as chattel slavery, but pretty bad, that’s why it was completely deserved when they had a revolution. Not sure why you keep bringing up the colonization of siberia like it’s relevant to what’s going on now though. Comparing the amount of human life lost in that to the conquest of Americas though is just silly- there’s no comparison and the same American government is still around since then!

          • barsoap@lemm.ee
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            1 year ago

            This isn’t a “did the UK or Russia kill more natives” kind of discussion. This is a “Russia is a colonial empire” kind of discussion.

            And yes of course fewer natives died in Siberia, it’s fucking cold there there were never many in the first place.

            • sharedburdens [she/her, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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              1 year ago

              They have had several government changes since then. The US has the same constitution since it was doing its shit, the one with slavery in it. (they only do it to prisoners now though, don’t ask too many questions about why they have the highest prison population in the world)

              Calling them a ‘colonial empire’ especially from the seat of the worlds largest and most brutal historical colonial empires is laughable. (1/3 of Africa has had a monetary policy run out of Paris to this day, I wonder why they’re kicking them out)