To clarify I only meant the attacks on civilians. There will never be a way to justify the senseless killing of those. There are other ways than violence to get rid of them.
Ofc the whole situation in Gaza is fucked beyond comparison but there has to be another way on the world political stage to resolve this instead of letting it cook like we now do.
The ANC also attacked civilians. Though you should note how dramatically more the Israelis (and the SA government and white South Africans) target civilians.
There will never be a way to justify the senseless killing of those.
When under occupation, any means necessary is not only sanctioned by international law, it is necessary. Note that the kibbutzim in the area had armories and shot at the al Aqsa flood participants, which included a wide coalition as well as whoever simply went past the walls of their own volition.
How is it senseless, by the way? Do you actually know what happened on the ground? Who did what? What was going in in their heads? What their lives were? There is an implicit chauvinism in the use of clichés and guesses rather than become educated.
There are other ways than violence to get rid of them.
No there aren’t. You apparently know nothing about the history here, the many movements that attempted peaceful means, even as recent as the Great March of Return in 2018. And the repeated lies and violence that Palestinians have faced following every diplomatic agreement.
As you can see, the Israelis will speed up and openly embrace genocide at the mere perception that they are not totally dominant over those that they occupy. Israelis march not for peace or justice, but for harsher violence and getting rapists out of jail. They are an ethnic supremacist culture that embrace the genocide they are committing. You cannot “peace” your way out of that. You would condemn Palestinians to extinction.
For concentration camp victims, they are far more restrained than virtually anyone. Would you also condemn the Sioux for killing settlers occupying their land? Why not instead materially oppose the settler colonists? Your tut-tutting is just tacit both-sidesing of a decidedly imbalanced situation.
Ofc the whole situation in Gaza is fucked beyond comparison but there has to be another way on the world political stage to resolve this instead of letting it cook like we now do.
There is not. You have an unrealistic idea about how geopolitics and imperialist violence function. It is not like the movies or the 1 or 2 examples of allegedly nonviolent movements recuperated by capitalism. You’re not going to win just because you are right or empathetic. You will not convince your captors and child murderers with a good speech and some protests. Most of the states, i.e. the major sourcea of military power in the world, will not step in to help you unless it serves their self interest - and most capitalist countries see subverting themselves to the US and therefore Israel as in their self interest.
And when states or similar forces do step up, you get tacit genocide apologetic PR campaigns against them. Such as, “do you condemn Hamas?”
The historical and realistic source of liberation is organized armed struggle.
There have been points in time where a two state solution have been attempted but on both sides those that wanted to eradicate the other have come out on top.
A mob of oppressed genocided people attacking two soldiers who are genociding them? That sounds awesome and justified.
You are suffering from not seeing Israel as Nazis. Replace every instance of IDF you see with the word Nazi. Let me know if you still feel sorry for them.
For an unsuccessful genocide Israel sure has expelled a lot of Palestinians from their land into a concentratration camp. And installed a Nazi regime on that stolen Palestinian land.
Ramallah is Palestinian territory what was that Israeli soldier doing there? Their presence is illegal and Palestinians have the right to defend themselves
Would you be upset if a Russian soldier was lynched in Kiev?
Where’s your sympathy for the occupied and brutalized people? Why should we sympathize with the aggressors? the occupation has been ongoing since 1967, it is illegal per international law and the Palestinians are subjugated to unspeakable violence. Yet they are the bad guys?
I bet if you went through half of what they went through you’d do the same. Did you even listen to the confession I shared? And that’s the least that they do and have done to the Palestinians living under military occupation since 1967.
Somehow though you still sympathize with the aggressor even after committing a genocide.
They haven’t been through one one-millionth of what the Palestinians have been through, and they still support doing far, far worse than lynching two IDF soldiers.
To clarify I only meant the attacks on civilians. There will never be a way to justify the senseless killing of those.
Getting all high and mighty about when Palestinians kill civilians while conveniently ignoring Israel’s actions (both after this event and in the decades that led to it) makes your argument extremely bad faith.
If we’re going by number of civilians killed by each side, then the Palestinians are very much in the right.
Also, define civilian. I wasn’t there, have no stake in either side, and obviously have no personal desire for anyone on either side to get harmed, but I can sort of underatand why the victims of a genocidal occupation might not exactly consider the occupiers who stole their land to be innocent civilians.
instead of letting it cook like we now do.
“Letting it cook” would be an improvement to what we’re currently doing, which is actively supporting and arming Israel.
To clarify I only meant the attacks on civilians. There will never be a way to justify the senseless killing of those. There are other ways than violence to get rid of them. Ofc the whole situation in Gaza is fucked beyond comparison but there has to be another way on the world political stage to resolve this instead of letting it cook like we now do.
The ANC also attacked civilians. Though you should note how dramatically more the Israelis (and the SA government and white South Africans) target civilians.
When under occupation, any means necessary is not only sanctioned by international law, it is necessary. Note that the kibbutzim in the area had armories and shot at the al Aqsa flood participants, which included a wide coalition as well as whoever simply went past the walls of their own volition.
How is it senseless, by the way? Do you actually know what happened on the ground? Who did what? What was going in in their heads? What their lives were? There is an implicit chauvinism in the use of clichés and guesses rather than become educated.
No there aren’t. You apparently know nothing about the history here, the many movements that attempted peaceful means, even as recent as the Great March of Return in 2018. And the repeated lies and violence that Palestinians have faced following every diplomatic agreement.
As you can see, the Israelis will speed up and openly embrace genocide at the mere perception that they are not totally dominant over those that they occupy. Israelis march not for peace or justice, but for harsher violence and getting rapists out of jail. They are an ethnic supremacist culture that embrace the genocide they are committing. You cannot “peace” your way out of that. You would condemn Palestinians to extinction.
For concentration camp victims, they are far more restrained than virtually anyone. Would you also condemn the Sioux for killing settlers occupying their land? Why not instead materially oppose the settler colonists? Your tut-tutting is just tacit both-sidesing of a decidedly imbalanced situation.
There is not. You have an unrealistic idea about how geopolitics and imperialist violence function. It is not like the movies or the 1 or 2 examples of allegedly nonviolent movements recuperated by capitalism. You’re not going to win just because you are right or empathetic. You will not convince your captors and child murderers with a good speech and some protests. Most of the states, i.e. the major sourcea of military power in the world, will not step in to help you unless it serves their self interest - and most capitalist countries see subverting themselves to the US and therefore Israel as in their self interest.
And when states or similar forces do step up, you get tacit genocide apologetic PR campaigns against them. Such as, “do you condemn Hamas?”
The historical and realistic source of liberation is organized armed struggle.
:)
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And by both sides, you mean on the Israeli side.
Sure, if you ignore choose the other side
Nope
Hamas has tried all other ways. They did a peaceful march in 2019 and Israel still massacred them.
Hamas killed very few civilians. Most of those killed were trained soldiers who would have now participated in the Gaza genocide
What are your thoughts on them bombing buses to torpedo the Oslo Accords?
Oslo died when Netanyahu’s Likud party killed Rabin.
Why would you want to ignore the other side?
Likud killed Oslo not whatever random event you want to bring up. Rabin’s wife specifically named Netanyahu as the responsible.
There was more Israeli terrorism from that time period than Palestinians could even dream of.
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Won’t somebody please think of the settler-colonial stormtroopers!
Repeating myself: Palestinians have the legal right under UN law to struggle against their occupiers by any means necessary, including armed struggle, while Israel, as an occupier, has no right to “self defense.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionism_as_settler_colonialism
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IDF soldiers aren’t civilians you fucking moron.
The guys going into Gaza to torture and rape children? Innocent civilians
Palestinian women and children inside a hospital? Those are terrorists. What do you think they would do after they healed from the Israeli gunshot?
Insert Peter Griffin chart meme
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Least incoherent genocide apologist.
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A mob of oppressed genocided people attacking two soldiers who are genociding them? That sounds awesome and justified.
You are suffering from not seeing Israel as Nazis. Replace every instance of IDF you see with the word Nazi. Let me know if you still feel sorry for them.
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For an unsuccessful genocide Israel sure has expelled a lot of Palestinians from their land into a concentratration camp. And installed a Nazi regime on that stolen Palestinian land.
That Hasbara budget increase took effect quickly.
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Dropped that “both sides” mask rather quickly didn’t ya pal.
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Ramallah is Palestinian territory what was that Israeli soldier doing there? Their presence is illegal and Palestinians have the right to defend themselves
Would you be upset if a Russian soldier was lynched in Kiev?
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Where’s your sympathy for the occupied and brutalized people? Why should we sympathize with the aggressors? the occupation has been ongoing since 1967, it is illegal per international law and the Palestinians are subjugated to unspeakable violence. Yet they are the bad guys?
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I bet if you went through half of what they went through you’d do the same. Did you even listen to the confession I shared? And that’s the least that they do and have done to the Palestinians living under military occupation since 1967.
Somehow though you still sympathize with the aggressor even after committing a genocide.
They haven’t been through one one-millionth of what the Palestinians have been through, and they still support doing far, far worse than lynching two IDF soldiers.
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Then you should have no sympathy for the IDF
Ripping human beings apart with bombs, guns, and bulldozers is ok though.
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Getting all high and mighty about when Palestinians kill civilians while conveniently ignoring Israel’s actions (both after this event and in the decades that led to it) makes your argument extremely bad faith.
If we’re going by number of civilians killed by each side, then the Palestinians are very much in the right.
Also, define civilian. I wasn’t there, have no stake in either side, and obviously have no personal desire for anyone on either side to get harmed, but I can sort of underatand why the victims of a genocidal occupation might not exactly consider the occupiers who stole their land to be innocent civilians.
“Letting it cook” would be an improvement to what we’re currently doing, which is actively supporting and arming Israel.