Edit: I also just got banned for apparently being a troll. Me. Not the person they believe to be a dragon though.
Blåhaj Lemmy and its communities have certain rules regarding respecting of one’s identity and their chosen pronouns. This extends to identities and pronouns you might not agree with. Those are the rules of that space. You broke the rules. The consequences followed. This is just basic stuff.
On the other hand, if you believe certain people to be trolling with their neopronouns, then engaging with the matter in any way, is kind of “falling” for it. So, just … don’t engage? This is the internet. People get to be (more or less seriously) humanoid animals, fantasy creatures and races, and if you can’t get along with that, you can expect to get thrown out of a space that explicitly welcome anyone regardless of their identity or pronouns.
People get to be (more or less seriously) humanoid animals, fantasy creatures and races, and if you can’t get along with that, you can expect to get thrown out of a space that explicitly welcome anyone regardless of their identity or pronouns.
If I were a transgender person, I would not go within ten miles of a community that was applying the same rules to fantasy creature role playing as it was to my gender pronouns. The normie world doesn’t need to have any assistance in seeing the whole thing as made up, equivalent to wanting to be called a dolphin or a mermaid, and confusing those two very, very different concepts, or treating them as deserving of precisely the same treatment and rules, sounds very wrong to me.
FWIW I am trans and I 100% agree with you. Been thinking about making an account on another instance, just not sure which yet.
100%. It is wrong to elevate roleplay (which, let’s be clear, is exactly what this is) to the same level of importance as someone’s actual gender identity.
It’s a false equivalence and does a huge disservice to trans people who are fighting for their right to even exist.
Don’t speak for trans people. Regardless of whether drag thinks drag’s an actual dragon or if it’s roleplay or just a fun neopronoun, respect people’s identities. I don’t have to get it. If someone says “I’d like to be referred to as fae,” then I’m calling fae exactly what fae wants. I have a friend that uses “love/love” as neopronouns. I don’t get it, and yes it can be confusing, but that isn’t roleplay or hurting anyone’s right to exist. This is exactly the type of infighting that conservatives try to start, and you’re either falling for it or white knighting for people that don’t need it.
Gender is made up and entirely a social construct, and some people choose to make their own rules because the rules don’t actually exist. For some reason that really pisses people off that otherwise think they’re being allies.
Yeah, this is basically like trying to reclaim the “I sexually identify as an attack helicopter” meme. I get the admins’ logic and see what they’re going for, but IMO the cost in credibility is too great.
Regardless of what the “normie world” thinks, gender is a social construct and people can do whatever they want. That doesn’t make them a troll and doesn’t invalidate them. We can’t just throw people out for being “too different” for fear of what the “normies” think. We all were too different not that long ago. We live for who we are, not for the approval of anyone else.
In this thread:
Blahaj Community: If you’re not trans, you don’t get a say in how trans spaces are run.
You: If I were a transgender person, here’s how I think I’d feel!
But mate, you’re not trans! How great, your opinion literally doesn’t matter a half fucking iota. It’s not needed or even wanted. Cishets run the world, so fuck right off out of trans spaces with your “but if I were trans” opinions. You’re not, no one cares.
I notice that literally 0 of the several people who are lecturing me on how I don’t have a right to make this statement have engaged with the trans person who said they feel 100% the same way.
I suspect the reason is that you have no interest in giving the same level of respect you’re demanding, and mostly you want to give the lecture, and receiving one would be unacceptable, even from someone who has the same badge of “I’m allowed to give a lecture” that you’re trying to cash in.
Honestly? I think you should talk to that person. They might be able to tell you things like “Just because you’re trans doesn’t mean you automatically speak for all trans people,” or “Just because you’re trans doesn’t mean you automatically are right about everything, yes, even when trans issues are involved.” I can’t say that, because I have no authority to, it’s just offensive. With them, you could have a real interaction, and you, or they, might be able to learn something. As you rightly pointed out, the usefulness of what I have to say on it is going to be limited.
I realized a while ago that me and blahaj weren’t going to vibe, and I left them alone to do their thing and me mine. This, however, is a space that I like to call home, to some extent, talking about issues that are important to me. I’m a little bit reluctant for my opinions to get kicked out of it completely because they’ve intersected with your issues. Hopefully that seems fair.
Again: If you’re trying to have this interaction for an exchange of views between qualified people, I’m not the person to talk with. If you’re just into the idea of giving a lecture to an unqualified person, but not in that other thing, which to me seems like it would be a lot more useful… why?
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I’m not speaking for you. I’m speaking for me, and telling you how I see it. If you think my opinion on this may not hold much weight, which seems fair, you can scroll down a little and have a conversation with a trans person who sees it 100% the same way I do.
You’re speaking for yourself “if you were a transgender person”. You aren’t though.
Maybe you would understand my point if I stated a shitty opinion I had with “If I were a black person…” Or “If I were Muslim…”. Maybe I can find one black or Muslim person to agree with me and then just deflect you to them when called out.
EDIT: But, trans people aren’t people, so it’s okay to take our identity and speak for us.
Whoever decided it would be fun to stir the pot to get the blahaj people arguing with the rest of Lemmy is sure as hell getting their money’s worth. That’s about all I want to add, at this point.
That person is drag, of course.
I’m not in that instance, but the focus on drag’s identity and calling it absurd fantasy roleplay is just malicious. No wonder trans people need spaces with rules like that with people like y’all around.
It’s funny how you can take any statement and make it seem like they’re attacking you so you don’t have to consider what anyone says.
If I were a transgender person,
I’m trans and while I appreciate your attempt to empathize, I would like to ask you to never question a trans person’s pronouns again. When cis people start drawing lines about what’s “acceptably trans”, I get extremely uncomfortable. I don’t care how weird or crazy it seems, it’s not your place to do so.
I have had some very bad experiences with cis people trying to tell me that I’m not trans enough for them; that is why I get pissed off when it comes to cis people sticking their noses where it doesn’t belong. Hell, America is going turbo-mode on anti-trans rhetoric because a bunch of dumbass cis people think they know better than trans people.
I don’t care how strange drag’s pronouns are; it isn’t your place to decide whether or not drag is valid (drag is literally just asking you to refer to drag by a shortened version of drag’s name instead of he/she/they/xe/whatever, it’s not that hard).
If I were a transgender person
Thanks for “cisplaining” what a trans person would feel.
As a trans person, I would rather have a space where everyone’s identities aren’t questioned, than some kind of (potentially hidden) requirement to be in place that your identity has to be “real” in some way. If “normies” have trouble respecting trans people just because we also happen to respect other identities in our spaces, then shrug. If fellow trans people are uncomfortable with that, they don’t have to be part of this space, either.
In the end, you’re once again making this a much bigger deal than it has to be. Someone broke the explicitly written out rules and got bonked for it. And if you think this person is a troll, they sure are a good one with how much they’re being fed with all these posts.
Makes me wonder if the “I got banned” posts are just a continuation of the trolling to make as much drama as possible.
Move on. There’s trans people dying out there. This isn’t worth fighting over.
I care about issues of censorship and trolling, and the social contract on the network, that’s the only reason I am in this discussion. I think the whole “call me drag” thing is not worth that much attention, yes, but banning a bunch of people for saying dragons aren’t real sort of drew my attention to it.
I don’t know. It is your instance. You can do what you like with it, but keep in mind that not everyone who is obeying the rules to the letter is your friend.
not everyone who is obeying the rules to the letter is your friend
100%, but everyone who disobeys this rule has taken it on themselves to decide which identities are valid and which aren’t, and that’s a dangerous precedent
It isn’t censorship if you get your post / comment removed or banned for breaking a rule. That’s just the moderators / admins doing their job. And there’s a subtext to saying “dragons aren’t real”, which is “I don’t think I need to respect this person’s identity or pronouns”. That’s why it’s gatekeeping. You don’t get to decide what identities / pronouns are valid or which rules apply to you because you think you made a good point.
It isn’t censorship if you get your post / comment removed or banned for breaking a rule.
Sure it is.
By my reading of the db0 terms of service, you’ve broken them here, because you are advocating for systems of authoritarian control and against the open discussion of ideas. Would you support banning your user from db0 so we can’t have this conversation? Is that censorship?
I don’t think you should get banned, of course. Because you’re clearly talking in good faith, and I like being able to talk with people, even when I disagree with them. I just would have a wish that the network as a whole generally works like that.
You don’t get to decide what identities / pronouns are valid
But the blahaj admins do! If I showed up and said my pronouns were “thatsaspicymeatball,” they would decide that wasn’t valid. They would not ban people for not using that as my pronouns, or for discussing the issue. They’ve just decided to make their judgement call in one particular place instead of another. That’s fine, of course, but then mechanically enforcing that everyone has to act in exact accordance with where they drew the line, even though there’s room for reasonable disagreement, is what will get people talking about you on PTB.
The reality of human life is that people look at things differently sometimes. I get wanting to protect your space against ignorance or people who will make someone feel unwelcome. But this is taking it to an extreme, forcing everyone to look at things in exactly the same chosen way, which is tearing down the thing you’re trying to accomplish, I think.
Does db0 have a ToS? I can see an “Anarchist Code of Conduct”, which seems to only support my points. In addition, db0 Lemmy has its own rules that could be seen as censorship just the same. Pointing out either instance’s rules existing presumably doesn’t imply that I’m advocating for authoritarian control or against discussion of ideas.
If you said your pronouns were 19 characters long, then one would argue that it is no longer functioning as a pronoun. drag/drag, other than being exotic, works fine in place of a pronoun. (Though one could argue it is so unique it’s more akin to a nickname, but that’s another discussion to be had.) If you instead said your pronouns were that/that, and being serious about it, it would likely be accepted. Sure, you could argue it’s a line being drawn elsewhere, but it’s not on the matter of identity.
I know numerous people that use fae/faer pronouns, some friends. Fairies aren’t real, either. Does that mean people should be allowed to make those same arguments, be allowed to openly be disrespectful and arguing against the use of those pronouns, in a space that explicitly asks you to respect them? No, of course not. Admittedly, I don’t know anyone who isn’t also okay with certain non-neopronouns being used for them as well, but if they weren’t, I personally wouldn’t think much about it and just use them.
In the code of conduct is:
Voluntary interaction, especially when it includes:
- Inclusive language and behavior,
- Welcoming attitude and approach,
- Rational debate and discussion,
- Genuine exchanges of ideas,
What is Unacceptable
- Authoritarianism, or the spread of behavior that is designed to overturn the standards described so far
You could say that’s misleadingly trimmed. I was mainly just trying to make a point: Just because something is according to the written rules doesn’t make it right. Also, you’re currently coming into a space and violating its community standards, and no one is banning you, nor should they, I think. That is one way you can wind up talking with people even if at the outset they may not agree with you on everything.
If you said your pronouns were 19 characters long, then one would argue that it is no longer functioning as a pronoun.
You don’t get to decide what identities / pronouns are valid or which rules apply to you because you think you made a good point.
See how that works?
My point was that they’re exercising judgement already, as you would to my requested pronouns, because of course they are. Everyone who’s doing moderation has to exercise judgement.
The users are taking issue with the admins falling for the troll and allowing the troll to make the space hostile. Their engagement is with the admin/mod response, not with the user.
If you genuinely believe dragons are real and they are able to type and have some understanding of the English language, go gather the data, get it peer reviewed and objectively verified, and go collect your Nobel Prize. Otherwise, if you occupy a space in which people must act as if dragons or Santa or Groot are real, that is an improv roleplay in which failure to say “Yes, and” is a bannable offense. Reality persists. Eppur si muove.
fantasy creatures
By using that adjective, you are implying there are creatures which do not exist. You’re defending the admin response by partaking in the same act which got the users banned.
Why are you hung up on the “dragons aren’t real” thing? That was never a requirement. Some people will argue that being trans isn’t real, being plural isn’t real, being genderfluid isn’t real, being bigender or another gender entirely isn’t real. (Not that you are claiming this.) As such, the admins there simply decided that there won’t be a line drawn. Let people do what they want. Heck, you could consider it “roleplaying” if you’re more comfortable with that, or alternatively, simply don’t engage. It’s disrespectful and not to mention disruptive to make it an issue.
Some people will argue that being trans isn’t real
And they’re wrong.
See how easy that was?
Having a line doesn’t mean all lines are equally valid. The possibility that someone, somewhere, might make a similar-shaped argument, does not eternally invalidate all possible forms of that argument.
And women are demonstrable. Women are a thing people can be.
The shape of that sentence is not validation for all possible mad-libs. ‘Snickers bars are a thing people can be.’ No. ‘The City of Pawnee, Indiana is a thing people can be.’ No. ‘God is a thing people can be.’ No… and there are follow-up questions.
What part of the removed comments do you think was considered gatekeeping by the admins, if not the statements that dragons aren’t real?
there won’t be a line drawn
Then any interaction in that superposition of reality and fiction is pointless. Acknowledgment of reality will be arbitrarily censored, such as above. It ceases to be roleplay and becomes a localized Ministry of Truth with the admins kowtowing to the trolls.
Let people do what they want.
People wanted to state the obvious about objective reality. Admin did not let them do that. People wanted to distinguish between reality and fiction. Admin did not let them do that.
It’s disrespectful
Disrespectful to whom? Trolls? Reality?
By questioning the person’s neopronouns, you’re gatekeeping which identities or pronouns are acceptable. Nobody cares whether dragons are real or not. Many letters of the alphabet mafia have been questioned on whether they are real or not, and even continue to be, so over here, we’re simply not doing that.
As for why you’re being disrespectful: You broke the rules of the space and now you’re making a big stink about it. Considering you’re admitting yourself you think this person is a troll, I think it’s time to admit your loss. You “fell” for them, got “tricked” into breaking a rule, and got banned as a result.
Have y’all never seen assholes abuse the language of sexual preference?
We’ve had to deal with people insisting that fucking kids is their identity. NAMBLA was a whole thing, to the point it became a South Park episode and a running gag on the Daily Show. Over on Tumblr, people tried pushing “minor-attracted person” or MAP as just another humdrum flag under the rainbow. If any forum said ‘you will not question that or imply the slightest disagreement with that,’ would you suddenly respect those people?
Hell, 4chan tried pushing “super straight” to mean, only cis women count. This was a deliberate organized effort (by 4chan standards) to appropriate the shape of queer activism, specifically to shit on trans people. As if calling those bigots, bigots, was the real bigotry.
Some things are not sexual preference. Calling that gatekeeping, instead of just having a definition, is a thought-terminating cliche. Acceptability has nothing to do with it - this thing is not that thing. It’s a category error.
I’m not questioning the neopronouns. It’s an oversimplification to suggest that those are the singular reason people believe the account to be a troll and that is the same myopic reasoning I read from the admin. Read the troll’s directly harmful posts/comments and read between the lines on their more covert insidious posts/comments.
Nobody cares whether dragons are real or not.
People caring about an objective reality is singularly why we’re having this conversation. The users were banned for stating that they aren’t real. Are you trying to troll me too or are you just not following any of this whatsoever?
As for why you’re being disrespectful: You broke the rules of the space and now you’re making a big stink about it. Considering you’re admitted yourself you think this person is a troll, I think it’s time to admit your loss. You “fell” for them, got “tricked” into breaking a rule, and got banned as a result.
None of that applies to me apart from me stating that the user is a troll. The banned users were not tricked; the admin was tricked into enforcing flawed rules to an absurd absolute. You likewise have been tricked into defending the absurd on moral principle rather than logic.
I didn’t ask why. I asked to whom. If I disrespect a troll, then good. If I disrespect those who choose to be gullible, then they shouldn’t have chosen to be gullible.
the admin was tricked into enforcing flawed rules to an absurd absolute
This is where we disagree. As far as neopronouns go, drag/drag is still pretty tame. It doesn’t take a lot of effort to just go along with a persons preferred way of being referred to, in a space where doing so is expected. You’re not supposed to decide on your own whether it’s worth respecting depending on whether you think this person is a troll.
The reason? There’s plenty of people out there, say on the spectrum, who often have trouble with being mistaken as a troll, for lack of being able to state their opinions and thoughts properly, or any other reason. I have personal experience with one such person. And their identity deserves to respected just the same as anyone else, even if their takes and opinions you are free to argue with.
Even if you know someone’s obviously faking being trans (Josh Seiter comes to mind), it doesn’t hurt anyone to just go along with using the pronouns they asked for, while criticizing them where it actually matters.
Imagine dragonfucker instead said “I am Jesus Christ reborn, refer to me as the Lord.”. Obvious madness and I doubt any community would respect it. It’s the same fantasy shit just dragons are nominally aligned with furry culture
Grail basically did that, and it got a moderator booted out for not capitalizing pronouns in a well-deserved ban message.
By the sound of things - this is about the same asshole. They just changed accounts and switched gimmicks.
Hilarious
Honestly, no, it’s just sad. This is Blahaj’s sole overstep and Ada is determined to make it everybody’s problem. Zero nuance, zero chill. Even 196 is talking about skipping over to friggin’ .world - all thanks to this defense of one narcissistic ban-evading douchebag.
Hilarious not as in “haha cool”, more line “look at the state of this mess”
G*mer
feral furry here. THANK YOU. Seems like a great instance from what I’ve seen.
Now that everyone has had a chance to argue all day about this, I’m gonna lock this post so you can go touch grass.
I agree that Drag is a massive troll and that user has been banned from many instances over the past few months, including this one.
Maybe try leaving it up to the folks at blajah to decide what they want to be called and maybe just play along with it, even if you find it weird. “Normal” is so fucking boring anyway. If you really can’t cope with occasionally coming across an unusual pronoun and being asked to simply accept it without having a meltdown, you probably don’t belong on blajah anyway. Just move on.
The “gatekeeping” bans seem like a BPR to me given the context in which it was posted. Having said that, I don’t entirely understand the rationale for blajah’s rule, since the effect seems to be that you either need to be 100% behind fantasy neo-pronouns and identities (including drag? dragonfucker??) or cop a ban, but if that’s how they want things then that’s up to them. Not every space is for everyone, and diversity of communities and instances is mostly a good thing.
As far as our instance (dbzer0) goes, malicious/intentional misgendering of users is not permitted, similar to blajah. However, like others in this thread have argued, I agree that someone who literally identifies as a dragon fucker does not deserve to be taken seriously about anything, and it’s entirely reasonable to simply assume the choice of pronouns is just another form of trolling. The context and drag’s extensive mod history (along with previous alts) are important factors here too.
It’s also concerning to me that people are being attacked and reported for being “bigots” or “anti-trans” in the comments just because they have hesitations over what are effectively contentious edge cases involving neo-pronouns and an infamous troll. I know for a fact that many of the commenters in this thread are very supportive of trans people, trans rights and respecting a person’s chosen gender pronouns. They just have a problem with this particular dragon-fucker, not because Drag is trans, but because Drag is a narcissistic troll and a community wrecker who thrives on all the drama.
I’m leaving the comments intact for the record, but will add a CW below:
CW: possible misgendering in comments below, at least if you agree dragon fucker is a gender
Just to add to this. We don’t have problems with people identifying with fantasy races. Go be weird and whatnot. But there’s a line between what you identify as and with rubbing your kink in everyone’s faces constantly. So just to be clear out stance is not pro-disputing anyone’s identity and not respecting third-party person neopronouns. It about disputing whether your gender is being challenged because someone said “you”.
Why is it powertriping if you clearly broke the stated rules.
That’s like agreeing to a contract without any comolains and then complaining the contract is unfair if you break it.
Blahaj was never intended to be a free speech zone, it was intended to be the one place on the internet trans people feel safe, so they really don’t care what you think, it isn’t made for you.
YDI.
The post clearly said “respect people’s pronouns, this rule will be enforced” and everyone getting mod action clearly states in response that they have read and understood the rules, but fully intend to break them.
There are absolutely ways to say “hey Ada, I think your judgement of this particular user is wrong and I am concerned about the damage drag does by engaging in trollish behavior” without also saying “but I plan to misgender people anyway.” The ones getting banned here fail on both counts.
They don’t use it as just a pronoun though, it’s inconsistent bullshit
All the more reason to just ignore. This is why OP deserves it for engaging.
IMO It’s just a false flag to enable arbitrary enforcement using subjective terminology
PugJesus is a transphobe, pass it on.
I’m gonna be honest, y’all kinda fucking dumb lmao.
Let’s say drag is a troll. If so, then drag’s wanting you to do exactly what you’re doing now. You have taken the bait, hook, line and sinker. Congrats! You’re helping drag cause problems! To avoid taking the bait, you gotta use drag’s pronouns. Do that, and there’ll be no drama for drag to stir up.
If drag isn’t a troll, then you’re just being a dick and intentionally causing drama when you could just use drag’s pronouns. By doing so, you’d make drag feel happy and accepted; which would be very progressive of you.
Soooooo… By posting this, at best you’re just feeding a troll and making other trans people question whether or not their pronouns will be respected (no, really, when cis people start drawing lines for trans people, I get extremely uncomfortable; it’s not your place to do so, fuck right off), at worst you’re being a piece of shit.
Edit: the fucking entitlement of cis people telling trans people how to run their spaces is sickening. I thought Lemmy was supposed to be fairly progressive, yet once again I’m being shown that cis people believe they deserve a voice in something that has nothing to do with them. You don’t get to call yourself an ally when you question someone’s validity.
You disgust me.
To avoid taking the bait, you gotta use drag’s pronouns
Whatever happened to good ol block button?
That works too.
The discussion is about people being banned from blahaj, not about whether we want to use these particular pronouns.
I’m sure the dragon user is tickled pink about all the drama, yes, but talking about policy when people are getting banned seems like a good thing to do even that notwithstanding.
Except the discussion hinges around people trying to claim that drag’s pronouns aren’t valid. That isn’t their place to decide. That is why they got banned.
No, the discussion doesn’t. You, the admin, and several others have misinterpreted the argument. The user has been banned across communities for trolling, misgendering, encouraging suicide, bad faith accusations, moderator harassment, and advocating violence. The user has posted comments that are racist and advocating for bestiality. The user has cyberstalked and harassed a Lemmy.world mod to misgender the mod’s daughter.
The user has declared themself to not be a human. You know that to be impossible.
This isn’t about the pronouns. We are on your side. The troll is attempting to discredit you and your communities.
I want to make this clear too: I have trans people in my life. I would never interrogate them on gender or sexuality and judge whether it was “valid” in this way. I do get why the whole concept or anything adjacent to it could make people lose their shit.
That’s not what’s going on here, with this user. The way you said it is a good way. They’re not even claiming to be transgender, that I know of, and the only conceptual overlap is that of pronouns, but somehow that is enough to trigger this thing that I think is protecting them and putting them in the “ally” category.
.
You’re smarter than this.
Edit: actually maybe you aren’t.
We only insist on using the correct pronouns. What’s the purpose of arguing the validity of a supposed troll’s identity when there’s plenty of actions to criticize? How often do we need to tell you that the correct response to a trolls is NOT to start misgendering them or similar, before you get it?
I think the LGBT+ movement needs a reality check if they want to cut the rest of society out of that discussion.
Why would “the rest of society” need to be on a lemmy instance dedicated to being a safe space for trans people?
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YUP. no notes. i see no shortage of “i’m blocking you now” in comment replies to other people. it’s two easy clicks to block a single divisive user. why not drag?
because you all clearly enjoy the drama. you wanted to flex your rejection muscles in the face of clearly stated rules in a community space that was not designed for you. enjoy! yall brought this on yourselves.
Yeah, they don’t block drag because drag is their golden ticket to express their transphobic views while pretending it’s just about drag. Their real reaction to drag is:
THIS JUST IN: cis, agender people disgust MossyFeathers, and they are so valid in feeling this way! They need an award for not feeding a troll, because addressing the mythical-reptile-sona troll in question at all is definitely not a loosing battle.
Anyways, neopronouns are fine or whatever, and can help people. Trolling in third-person to make a mockery of the concept of neopronouns seems counter-intuitive though, unless making people who use them feel bad is the point. Ah well, I guess agender people don’t exist, and cis bad. 😑
i wish that edit was a pinned post in a lot of communities.
I came to post exactly what you said then duck out, so I’ll just add that Lemmy as a whole is fairly progressive but .world is largely centrist Americans, has multiple notable shit stirrers, and a few of them and their alts are already here agreeing with themselves.
So yeah, I’m not surprised this turned into a dumpster fire of " ‘brave’ cishets pontificating on their standards of pronoun etiquette in trans spaces".
I’m just gonna chime in with…
I don’t care for drag’s pronouns and neopronouns in general, but that doesn’t matter. You know what I haven’t seen on blahaj in my time there? Drag being nasty and trollish to anyone not using them. In the cases I’ve seen, drag handles it pretty maturely. Troll or not, people are getting upset about their idea of drag, not drag and drags behavior.
Drag is literally trolling blahaj.zone in the thread in question.
https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/post/20091173/12155139
That post contains this image, which is drag saying people should take the attack helicopter meme serously:
Please read Ada’s comments in the thread regarding the “attack helicopter identity meme”.
I did read Ada’s comment and think Ada is a fool for encouraging the troll that goes by drag.
So you replied just to confirm that you didn’t read the story of Isabel Fall.
I understand that Isabell Fall took an internet meme and made an artistic statement uaing a fictional story which does not actually involve a real person identifying as an attack helicopter. That doesn’t make the meme itself less transphobic.
Isabel Fall is/was a trans woman who wrote a story invoking the “I sexually identify as an attack helicopter” meme / dog whistle and got attacked for it to the point of suicidal thoughts and her/them detransitioning even by her/their own peers. One of the lessons that some hope that could be learned from this is that, as Ada said it, “[it] isn’t always a troll, and how the community itself can become harmful to its own members when it turns on them”.
Additionally, as Mossy Feathers in this thread points out: If it is a troll, you’re just feeding it. If it isn’t, you’re an ass. Oh and you’re an ass either way, because you – regardless of your infinite wisdom about what LGBTQ+ people want, how to protect them, or how to normalize our existence – have questioned someone’s identity, which is not yours to decide, and that’s against our instance’s rules.
Do not interact, or block, and nobody will mind.
Heck, some folks witnessing this mess, including me at this point, are probably quite happy about drag’s “trolling”, as it seems to honeypot those unwilling to listen to us into showing their bigoted ways. As already said: Don’t tell us how to run our communities, especially not after “one of you” just got kicked out for so blatantly breaking our rules in a post that’s literally about asking people not to.
It’s kind of amusing watching them wave around a meme they clearly don’t understand to others who also don’t understand it so they can all feel justified in their shite behavior.
That’s what that post was about? The dragon fucker dude? I blocked him within a week of him existing because he was such an annoying person. I’m as much of a furry as any other socially maladjusted child raised by the internet but have some self control, dude.
It’d be one thing if this admin said, ‘because this is a hard line to draw, we’re not going to, just roll with it.’ But no: some extreme cases are promoted as obvious and unquestionable, to include emojis as pronouns, and - literally and unironically - “I sexually identify as an attack helicopter.” That is among this admin’s chosen positive examples.
It’d be one thing if questioning this do-it-or-else policy was limited to meta threads. But no: this is an admin thread, in their meta community, specifically about how this rule is contentious. It is not the first such thread. It is not even the first such thread specifically about a user everyone agrees is kind of a douche. Previously, the user in charge of Liberty Hub was removed and punished for not capitalizing some known dingus’s pronouns, in the ban message.
It’d be one thing if any of this was limited, in any way. But no: it’s every community, forever.
For responses walking on eggshells, trying to convey - maybe there’s a reason this remains an issue. Maybe gender being a spectrum and a construct doesn’t get everyone on-board with erasing comments for not calling someone a unicorn. Again: actual example, presented without irony.
Being told you’re not allowed to address someone as “you” is a big fuckin’ ask, in English. Being told you’re not allowed to treat someone as human is just bewildering. But even that, you could get away with pushing, if your push was not straight off a cliff.
ShitJustWorks feels like the only instance that learned anything from reddit. Short bans change people’s behavior. Long bans change people’s… usernames.
Short bans change people’s behavior. Long bans change people’s… usernames.
That’s a great quote!
“Gatekeeping” is an especially funny thing to accuse people of while you are gatekeeping.
“Gatekeeping” apparently means suggesting that some things aren’t other things.
drag is an asshole and I’m not exactly jumping in to help drag. But I do respect identities and pronouns and that’s exactly what the admins were enforcing here. You don’t have to agree.
And you may think it’s silly but people will do shit like misgender/ridicule Musk by calling him a woman’s name or using she/her when describing him because he’s transphobic. When you treat identity as something that can be taken away or called absurd and ignored, you’re perpetuating the same shit trans people like myself are trying to avoid or change.
Anyway, the rules are clearly stated and enforced around identity. YDI
Mod is definitely a dragon. We need to alert the elders
goes to a trans meta sub about rule enforcement, breaks said rule immediately, gets banned. seems about right? like do you want people to enforce rules or not? I though this sub was about people who are doing whatever they want regardless of the rules, not for enforcing said rules.
Lol this dingus is going to effectively defederate blaja by getting everyone banned
come on blahaj, yall are better than this.
Dragonfucker has multiple times said that if you’re feeling suicidal, then you should instead get a gun and start shooting Trump supporters.
If you’re planning on killing yourself, go buy a gun and take a red hat with you. Drag is serious. Get out if you can. Move to another country. But if you’re actually hopeless, and there’s nothing anyone can say to dissuade you… Then make it count.
https://lemmy.nz/modlog?page=1&actionType=All&userId=12587481
I thought originally that this was a big non-issue and only relevant because of the bans. This user is, it turns out, actively endangering trans people’s lives by what they like to post on Lemmy. The people who are getting suckered into supporting them in their whole shtick, thinking they’re modeling what it means to be an ally to a fellow trans person, need to wise the fuck up.
Inb4 “as a non-trans person you don’t have the right to say that.” I’ve talked with more than a few suicidal people during some variety of crisis. If you support the user that creates that type of posting, because the user in question is using pronouns, wake the fuck up.
also also, dufuq is this comment section? People need to chill out.
Ey. I wanna be a dragon too at times. If someone feels like being one full time, then as long as they don’t commit crimes, let them.
Pioneers come in all shapes and sizes, for better or for worse.
I’m still not sure if drag is a troll. They’re definitely attention seeking though.
