Israeli officials fear the pope’s vocal criticisms and symbolic gestures - such as this year’s nativity scene in St Peter’s Square featuring baby Jesus resting on a Palestinian keffiyeh - may influence global public opinion.
Created by Bethlehem artists Johny Andonia and Faten Nastas Mitwasi, the nativity scene prominently features Palestinian materials, including olive wood, a symbol of Palestinian resilience.
During its unveiling, Pope Francis condemned the global arms industry for profiting from human suffering and reiterated his call for an end to all wars, urging the faithful to remember those suffering in the holy land.
The display, praised by many as a message of solidarity and peace, drew backlash from Israel’s supporters, who accused the Vatican of promoting a pro-Palestinian agenda.
They’re gonna call the pope an antisemite
Those assholes have used that word so much its lost all meaning.
HOW CAN YOU CRITICIZE US KILLING CHILDREN???
Because they’re antisemites ofc
Yeah. But then they are allowed to make fun of the Pope saying stuff like “Between the Pope and air conditioning, I’d choose air conditioning.” and you must laugh for some reason even though the dude is Jewish and so the Pope is nothing to him like any religious leader is nothing to me.
Israel’s children killing business is cutting into the church child molesting business. It’s a conflict of interest.
The pope is fine with Ukrainian children being murdered tho….
Fuck the pope and his piece of shit “religion”. Obligatory fuck Israel/IDF
How so? I think he said he wanted the war in Ukraine because of the opposite. It’s basically the same anti-war stance as his views on this topic.
Was he fine with it?
only an anti-semitist would say “don’t kill children”. they should get him fired for this.
Israel thinks this is what’s going to give them a poor public opinion!?
This is probably a good time to mention that Israel, like all developed nations, has been experiencing a slowing birth rate.
This was a problem for them because the birthrate in the occupied territories was higher, and if you can’t maintain a Jewish majority in the country, how can you maintain the country as a Jewish homeland? This existential doom has hung over Israelis like climate change or the heat death of the universe: even if they aren’t destroyed in fire, they’ll simply dissolve over time until they disappear, and it will all be for nothing.
So you know. I’m not saying that killing Palestinian children was the solution they came up with. But the prospect of a justified way to wipe Gaza clean came their way, and it was too important an opportunity to pass up. If some children must be killed in the process, they think, silently, in the quietest corner of their hearts, then so be it.
Unfortunately the data doesn’t support your thesis. child birth graph Haredi jews are having more than double births than the average Israeli Muslim.
Combined (secular etc.) Jewish birth rate is on par (slightly higher) than Israeli Muslims and Palestinians in Gaza. (This was even before all the bullshit started last year)
Just a correction: what you call „Israeli Muslim“ are Palestinians. Very few Palestinians identify as Israeli. The Christians in the plot are also Palestinians.
I won’t argue about other people’s identity, but nationality wise - if they have Israeli passport, they are Israeli in the census data.
Well I got this information from some Israelis I guess you’d describe as “secular Jews” so their POV agrees with their data point in your graph anyway.
Still not shown by this data though, is the birth rate in the territories. I’m not talking about Israeli Arabs and wasn’t before either. It would also help to have some sense of proportion. Haredi Jews are 13% so although their birthrate is high it doesn’t characterize Jews as a whole.
But thanks for providing at least some data here.
This isn’t some secret. Listen to John Mearsheimer, who has talked about this for years. it is simple logic.
There is about the same number of Arab Palestinians and Western Israelis in the area. So for the Jewish supremacy ethonstate that Israel wants to be there is only three options:
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Indefinite Apartheid. This is extremely costly and as the Arab population keeps growing more and more difficult to maintain. Also it is just preserving the status quo
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Ethnic cleansing. Drive all the Palestinians out. However then your neighbors have to harbor them, they form a resistance there, and they keep demanding their right to return.
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Genocide. By eradicating them all, you get the “final” solution to permanently steal and settle the land.
So what we see is Israel maintaining option 1 and looking to escalate to option 2 and 3 whenever possible. Notice how they first tried to expel the population of Gaza into Egypt? When this option wasn’t possible and they knew that their western supporters in the US, UK, Germany and others were okay with genocide, they escalated to genocide.
The only way to get out of this situation with minimizing further destruction and murder is to abandon the Zionist project in favor of a just state that grants equal rights and justice to everyone living in Palestine.
I don’t believe I presented the information as a secret. And I agree with everything else you said. I’m a one-state-solution guy. This does mean that the state won’t have one official ethnicity/culture/religion, but I have no regard for the desire to build a state hegemony.
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I have no proof of this, but I think Israeli intelligence knew the October Hamas attack was coming. Probably didn’t realize how severe it was going to be, but they may have wanted it for an excuse for everything they did after.
I can’t even wrap my head around what the goal of Hamas was with their attack. Surely they knew that Israel’s response would be total insanity. Maybe they’re drinking their own koolaid even at the top.
Pretty sure this is common knowledge by now:
Yeah, seems like a pretty good source. It reminds me of the “Bin Laden Determined to Attack Within the US” reports that surfaced after the 9/11 attacks. I don’t actually believe that GWB was in on it, but I could see the administration letting something happen for reason to go to war.
It’s so similar in a way. Perhaps both were intentionally allowed at some level, just underestimated in scale. I can’t imagine either of the leaders, Bush or Netanyahu, to allow so many of their “own people” to die and make a mockery of their countries to the world. Perhaps they did. I doubt we’ll ever know.
I don’t believe Bush did it through malice, it was 100% incompetence.
I mean, take it from Richard Clarke:
https://www.brookings.edu/articles/trust-clarke-hes-right-about-bush/
Lets not confuse intelligence that something major is going to happen with actionable intelligence where you can preemptively take action to prevent an attack.
Prior to 9-11 there was most definitely increased chatter and I’d hazard a guess that many security and intelligence agencies knew something was going down on US soils but didn’t have actionable specifics that would have allowed them to take appropriate action and prevent 9-11.
I think it was a similar issue with Israel and they must have believed that the worse case was an isolated terrorist bombing and to prepare a typical lockdown and emergency services response and not a massive raid on their territories.
Yeah someone else provided some good links to the links here. I was making the same connection. Check the other reply.
What, Israel counts as developed nation?
This is NotTheOnion material. Like, are you actually mad that the fucking Pope is not on board with killing children?
Crosspost was removed for being ‘Not onion-y’. Oh well.
Despite being highly upvoted and the comment section agreeing with the onion-y-ness as far as I saw. Ridiculous. Still a good post
Ofcourse the catholic church is not onboard with murdering children. How will the clergy get laid if all the children are killed?
But on a more serious note, the current pope is actually doing a decent job of calling out atrocities and promoting some of the decent aspects of their faith, and not propping up all of the bad stuff as god’s will
He’s also a transphobe who uses his platform to attack trans people.
The current pope is good at PR, that’s all.
Its a strange world isnt it. In the last election I was shouted down on here by trans supporters who said you cant expect perfection from everyone, because Harris supported trans rights, but also was a supporter of Israeli genocide as well, which I thought was a bigger issue for humanity to address immediately with the limited time to apply pressure that was available.
So I’ll just parrot that right back now along with the idea that “you dont tease the fat guy at the gym”. Following the metaphor, the pope is currently on the treadmill shedding some pounds, so I’m going to hold my derisive comments about that particular rapist cult for the moment. And he’s a whole lot better than all the other popes of my lifetime. But next time he opens his mouth about trans rights, sure, kick his arse.
Perfect example of not letting perfect be the enemy of good.
A perfect example of centrism allowing evil to flourish because it’s lesser.
The alternative to a shit pope isn’t a slightly less shit pope, it’s having no pope at all.
But rather than argue for that, people argue to defend the papacy. It’s truly mind boggling.
He’s about as with it as you can expect the Pope to be. The Catholic Church has never really lead the charge of progress
The fact that he’s not advocating for the wholesale execution of trans people out in the street makes some people think he’s some kind of “crazy” pro LGBT “corruptor” of good Christian families.
At least here where I am, a stone’s throw away from Palestine, these are not topics that are dealt with with a lot of open mindedness. I hate “hate the sin not the sinner” just as much as anyone else on Lemmy, but I’ve seen the effect his rhetoric (specifically on gay people) has had and it’s certainly better than Benedictus 16 before him.
I don’t agree with everything he says (I attended a Catholic school, which is never a faith-enhancing experience) but I’m damn certain that he’s slowly dragging most of the Catholic faithful kicking and screaming into the 21st century when he just as easily could have been ten times worse on social issues. As far as a pope goes, this is pretty much the best case scenario as far as this stuff is concerned. The industrial-scale child abuse still needs a lot of work though. Let’s not kid ourselves.
Now if only he knew what a compiler is.Except scientific progress, it was the world leader for a few centuries there.
Is he? Is he really as with it as I can expect the pope to be? Is stopping the mass molestation and rape of children really too much to ask?
Progressiveness is hard, you have to hate someone.
I have to say as far as inspirational quotes go, it lacks something.
Do you mean like, the way war drives technical innovation?
I don’t get it.
No I’m making fun of the fact of that the pope is a “good Pope” because he’s slightly better than the previous popes. It’s a pretty low bar.
Crossposted 👍
But, security… Aren’t tens of thousands of children’s lives a small price to pay to stop the violence?
/s
Even in they old testament, only the first born children were killed.
Tell that to the 42 kids who got mauled to death by bears for making fun of someone’s hair.
Yeah except for all those other times when everyone was slaughtered down to their animals. Or you know, that time when the entire human and air-breathing animal population of the planet except for 0.0000000001% were killed.
Yeah those plagues weren’t too bad comparatively.
Remember that part of Jesus’s story where he had to flee because a mad king was systematically murdering children because he was scared that the child was “the king of kings”.
What a wild parallel.
If you believe in the divine Jesus, and have a decent understanding of history, surely you would know that the man would look more like the average Palestinian than the average Israeli.
When it comes to religion though logic must leave the building.
“Child murderers complain that their child murdering is being called out”
The pope is Hamas!
“Is this antisemitism?”
“no, this is Patrick”
If you’re on the pro-killing children side, it’s probably time to look in the mirror.
The vatican is finally right about something, even relevant, for once. Good for them. They have a lot to make up for, and this is a start.
“Yesterday, children were bombed. This is cruelty, not war,” the pontiff declared last Saturday, lamenting the immense humanitarian crisis in the besieged enclave.
Israel lashed out in response, accusing the pope of ignoring its security concerns.
Israeli foreign ministry spokesperson Oren Marmorstein accused the pope of ignoring the broader context of Israel’s military actions, which have resulted in the killing of 17,000 children.
Maybe everyone should ignore a “security concern” if the only way to alleviate that concern is murdering 17,000 children?
Because whatever group you’re concerned about, probably won’t like you anymore after you murder 17,000 of their children…
Especially when the reason for your concern is people are mad you keep killing them in the first place.
To be precise, not all 17k Palestinian children had the luxury of immediate death from being blown up with American bombs by Israeli terrorists. Many of them were in fact killed by sniper fire, with an alarmingly large percentage of the murdered children dying from headshot or chest shot sniper wounds. These are kids as young as 5 and 6 being headshot from miles away by Israeli snipers. This has been corroborated many times over by American doctors who were working in the Gaza hospitals, before all of those hospitals got blown up too.
There is no possible security concern which could justify such acts of terrorism. Israel’s motivation is clearly a land grab, and Netanyahu’s is clearly to remain in power throughout the slaughter. They are absolute monsters.
So, if not murdering children is pro-Palestinian, then I guess I’m pro-Palestinian.
And logically, that means being pro-Israeli (or at least pro-Israeli government, because I know there are lots of Israelis who are not happy about what their government is doing) is also pro-child-murder. Their logic, not mine!
Unironically, this is how Israelis think. Those are the bad kids who would grow up to hurt them.
And the logic of fascists is “we can wipe them all out, so then the threat will be gone”, ignoring the practical impossibility of actually killing so many millions of people completely, as well as the fact that the entire world can see what they’re doing, and have connections to the victims, so they are making way more enemies than they started with.
It’s a delusion of superiority, that they are so powerful and their foes so weak that they can overwhelm them.
Absolutely if you go on killing their parents, their brithers and sisters; bomb their playgrounds, their schools. What else they are going to do except for lashing out anyone. These would be the kids vulnerable to be brainwashed into doing further horriffic things.
