Science suggests that meat consumption always comes with risks e.g. of genetic mutations. So if you can meet your demand of nutrients and trace elements without meat you probably should.
There’s been a lot of back-and-forth. B12, like iron and Protein, are digested differently by the gut (with different efficiency) based on how they are consumed.
If absolutely all you care about is nutrition and nothing else, you should be eating a small amount of non-processed red and white meat (and/or seafood) on a regular basis because it is the best and healthiest source of those three things. Key term “small amount”
Interesting that you say this because the high amount of B12 in the meat people buy is because it is artificially supplemented to the animals they slaughter.
That seems like a bit of a red herring even if true. Considering I recognize your handle from elsewhere, I’m going to say “eat what you want” and move on before things get heated.
I understand that your ethics drive your decisions, but my ethics drive mine. As does my nutrition.
Actually, hell. Let me respond to the red herring statement anyway. Yes they supplement cows B12. Not so they have B12 in their meat but because cows need B12 and most of the world’s soil is Cobalt-deficient. I’m such a sucker for trolls I suppose; can’t let misinformation go unanswered :( I hope an upvoted post in a vegan subreddit works for response?
EDIT: Sorry. I don’t really mean that YOU are a troll per se. Misinformation like this is problematic to me because I try to treat people as charitably as I possibly can. But the idea that B12 is in meat due to supplements is one of that family of malicious half-truths that simply could not have been an “honest mistake” from whoever originated it. Whoever started spreading that ABSOLUTELY knows it’s a downright falsehood that can be substantiated by half-reads and mis-reads of actual facts. Like picking out a single vaccine study that doesn’t rule out autism and starting… well, you lived through what it started as much as I did.
I genuinely don’t think YOU knew what you were about to say was fabricated nonsense made to seem defensible from a naive googling. But somebody did.
There’s been a lot of back-and-forth. B12, like iron and Protein, are digested differently by the gut (with different efficiency) based on how they are consumed. If absolutely all you care about is nutrition and nothing else, you should be eating a small amount of non-processed red and white meat (and/or seafood) on a regular basis because it is the best and healthiest source of those three things. Key term “small amount”
How did you arrive at that conclusion? Not by carefully checking your information I guess. Since a quick Google would have revealed to you that people can get the necessary amount of B12 through supplements. There is no reason to assume it is less healthy.
That the B12 in the meat people consume is supplemented is not false. Without oral administration of B12 many slaughtered animals wouldn’t even produce it at all. Lactating cows and calves get it as well, so do some cattle just as a precaution. You explicitly mentioned white meat (I looked it up and that seems to be the flesh of, for example, swine and chicken) and these animals do not produce their B12 from Cobalt. They need B12 supplements which are administrated orally through their feed.
To call it fabricated nonsense and implying that people who share that information are troll adjacent does make it seem you have an agenda beyond just stating what is presumably more healthy.
No, I think I’m good. Unfortunately, I’ve run out of good-faith today. I’m not convinced the truth matters to you anymore. Especially because after painfully being charitable with you and even apologizing for how my statement came out, you answered in the tone you did.
You can ignore this below because it’s not for you, but for people reading this who don’t know.
Note to anyone who wants to analyze this person’s opinion to see if they are really responding in bad-faith, they actively avoided any topic except Vitamin B12. Also to those readers, most B12 supplements come from bacteria that is arguably as sentient as the meat it replaces. If your’e considering veganism, PLEASE educate yourselves from something other than other vegans. I know several who have been hospitalized. It IS possible to be a healthy vegan, and it IS sustainable if not too many people become vegan. It is a lot of effort, and at some point you need to decide whether you exert enough effort into your health to do so with veganism.
EDIT: I am such an idiot. Here I go again feeding the trolls.
Regardless of bioavailabililty, as many as 92% of vegans suffer from B12 deficiency in studies and tests, which substantiates the idea that maybe we don’t know everything about how to tell if a bacteria-derived B12 supplement is really being digested the same as B12 in meat. The reference I provided suggests that the underlying issue is stunted digestion across-the-board and argues it well enough to be compelling. Note, the reference above is NOT an anti-vegan site, just a guy who does serious research into whatever contentous topics he can find (including interviewing with experts) and vlogs about them.
It really helps answer the mysteries as to why 84% of people who start vegan diets ultimately have to stop them (added ref with a similar but lower citation). A majority of those who revert from veganism/vegetarianism do so for exclusively health reasons.
Science suggests that meat consumption always comes with risks e.g. of genetic mutations. So if you can meet your demand of nutrients and trace elements without meat you probably should.
deleted by creator
Interesting. I guess you could still supplement b12
There’s been a lot of back-and-forth. B12, like iron and Protein, are digested differently by the gut (with different efficiency) based on how they are consumed.
If absolutely all you care about is nutrition and nothing else, you should be eating a small amount of non-processed red and white meat (and/or seafood) on a regular basis because it is the best and healthiest source of those three things. Key term “small amount”
Interesting that you say this because the high amount of B12 in the meat people buy is because it is artificially supplemented to the animals they slaughter.
That seems like a bit of a red herring even if true. Considering I recognize your handle from elsewhere, I’m going to say “eat what you want” and move on before things get heated.
I understand that your ethics drive your decisions, but my ethics drive mine. As does my nutrition.
Actually, hell. Let me respond to the red herring statement anyway. Yes they supplement cows B12. Not so they have B12 in their meat but because cows need B12 and most of the world’s soil is Cobalt-deficient. I’m such a sucker for trolls I suppose; can’t let misinformation go unanswered :( I hope an upvoted post in a vegan subreddit works for response?
EDIT: Sorry. I don’t really mean that YOU are a troll per se. Misinformation like this is problematic to me because I try to treat people as charitably as I possibly can. But the idea that B12 is in meat due to supplements is one of that family of malicious half-truths that simply could not have been an “honest mistake” from whoever originated it. Whoever started spreading that ABSOLUTELY knows it’s a downright falsehood that can be substantiated by half-reads and mis-reads of actual facts. Like picking out a single vaccine study that doesn’t rule out autism and starting… well, you lived through what it started as much as I did.
I genuinely don’t think YOU knew what you were about to say was fabricated nonsense made to seem defensible from a naive googling. But somebody did.
Let’s look at your statement:
How did you arrive at that conclusion? Not by carefully checking your information I guess. Since a quick Google would have revealed to you that people can get the necessary amount of B12 through supplements. There is no reason to assume it is less healthy.
Sources: Comparative Bioavailability and Utilization of Particular Forms of B12 Supplements
Revisiting Vitamin B12 Deficiency: A Clinician’s Guide For the 21st Century
Effective treatment of cobalamin deficiency with oral cobalamin
That the B12 in the meat people consume is supplemented is not false. Without oral administration of B12 many slaughtered animals wouldn’t even produce it at all. Lactating cows and calves get it as well, so do some cattle just as a precaution. You explicitly mentioned white meat (I looked it up and that seems to be the flesh of, for example, swine and chicken) and these animals do not produce their B12 from Cobalt. They need B12 supplements which are administrated orally through their feed.
Sources: Two funny ones, given the context, I think: Vitamin B12 for Chickens B12 for Livestock: Uses, Benefits, and Signs of B12 Deficiency
Influence of vitamin B 12 and Cobalt on growth of broiler chickens and Pekin ducks
Methionine, folic acid and vitamin B12 in growing-finishing pigs: impact on growth performance and meat quality
To call it fabricated nonsense and implying that people who share that information are troll adjacent does make it seem you have an agenda beyond just stating what is presumably more healthy.
No, I think I’m good. Unfortunately, I’ve run out of good-faith today. I’m not convinced the truth matters to you anymore. Especially because after painfully being charitable with you and even apologizing for how my statement came out, you answered in the tone you did.
You can ignore this below because it’s not for you, but for people reading this who don’t know.
Note to anyone who wants to analyze this person’s opinion to see if they are really responding in bad-faith, they actively avoided any topic except Vitamin B12. Also to those readers, most B12 supplements come from bacteria that is arguably as sentient as the meat it replaces. If your’e considering veganism, PLEASE educate yourselves from something other than other vegans. I know several who have been hospitalized. It IS possible to be a healthy vegan, and it IS sustainable if not too many people become vegan. It is a lot of effort, and at some point you need to decide whether you exert enough effort into your health to do so with veganism.
EDIT: I am such an idiot. Here I go again feeding the trolls.
Regardless of bioavailabililty, as many as 92% of vegans suffer from B12 deficiency in studies and tests, which substantiates the idea that maybe we don’t know everything about how to tell if a bacteria-derived B12 supplement is really being digested the same as B12 in meat. The reference I provided suggests that the underlying issue is stunted digestion across-the-board and argues it well enough to be compelling. Note, the reference above is NOT an anti-vegan site, just a guy who does serious research into whatever contentous topics he can find (including interviewing with experts) and vlogs about them.
It really helps answer the mysteries as to why 84% of people who start vegan diets ultimately have to stop them (added ref with a similar but lower citation). A majority of those who revert from veganism/vegetarianism do so for exclusively health reasons.