This lets me know that you have never experienced a long term shot gun owner. Shotguns do not explicitly fire only shot or slugs. They never have. It is actually quite easy to tailor shells to a target. Someone with fishing line, a soldering iron, and a box of cheap pellets can make a net that will take out all commercial drones (or any of the 4 propeller style). And on top of that, there are widely available (albeit expensive) commercially available anti-drone shells. If you look in all of the footage of Russians being killed via drone, they all have a rifle with some kind of optic. These are very, very bad at shooting an agile flying target. Every hunter on the entire planet can tell you that. You know what’s great at that? A shotgun with the appropriate gauge and shell. Look, it isn’t that hard to hunt birds at over 50 yards (that’s 150’ as you so inaccurately put things in the range estimate) with a solid appropriate turkey gun. You have displayed a large amount of ignorance here.
A quick Google search shows birdshot has an effective rang on the order of 40 - 50 yards. Now, you still have to be competant with a shotgun, but the public perception of shotguns is generally skewed. They have a much tighter spread and longer range than movies and games would have one believe.
Depends on the choke. A 12 gauge full choke turkey gun can probably put a pretty tight pattern that range, but it’s gonna work better with bigger shot. If you want super fine shot and a full pattern, you aren’t shooting that far.
GarandThumb did some tests in a video a while back. IIRC he did both choked and not, along with different types of shot and slugs. everything but birdshot was pretty effective out to a couple dozen yards? I’ll track it down and drop a link after I’ve rewatched.
EDIT: so in “How Deadly are Shotguns”, they fire 00 Buck unchoked at around 7 - 8 minutes, and it is still getting a drone-sized spread at 21 yards. In the video “How Far are Shotguns Deadly? BirdShot, Slugs, and 00 Buckshot”, we see birdshot and 00 Buck used choked all the way out to 120 yards. From my perspective, birdshot and 00 buck start having a potentially viable spread at 50 yards (slowmo spread footage at 14 minutes).
I think that most likely, a pellet size between birdshot and 00 would be better, to provide that peppering effect while still delivering greater impulse per pellet. Garand also mentions in the first video that chokes can actually cause wider spread when used with shot, so unchoked shotguns may be ideal for an anti-drone function.
This is about drones that are cheap and can shoot you with a bullet. Sure a +1M$ drone will kill you from behind the horizon, but a repurposed consumer drone operates on the same ranges as handheld guns and as such could be shot by a handheld gun. If you can hit it, which is why you use a shotgun to increase your ods
it’s not necessarily with a bullet. Most improvised attack drones drop explosive payloads, since it’s both simpler to set up and simpler to use. Outfitting a drone with a gun takes making a complicated system for aiming it, while a payload drone just needs some 3d-printed parts, some extra wiring, and usually just a single servo.
Are the cheap drones really shooting people with bullets? I was under the impression they just had small explosives strapped to them and were single-use.
you’re correct, they do not strap guns to improvised attack drones. they’re not necessarily single-use either, though. A kamikaze drone will detonate its payload while its still attached, which is an option. There is plenty of footage of IADs which use a servo to just physically drop a payload onto targets from above, and those could potentially be used over and over. I think the kamikaze version is able to be more effective, for a variety of reasons, but both versions seem to be seeing use.
Other people have already pointed out that your conception of shotgun spread is essentially based in video games, where the spread is (in all but basically milsim games) greatly exaggerated.
You’ve countered that drones can fly higher than an actual shotgun range.
Yep. They can.
… Did you read the article I posted?
Shotguns are being used fairly commonly by both sides.
It doesn’t matter what you or I think about how practical or useful they are…
The people fighting the war think they are practical and useful.
…
Nonetheless, here’s my attempt to explain the popularity of shotguns in Ukraine as anti drone weapons:
This is not a solution geared toward being able to shoot down any drone, of any size or capability, at any range, at any altitude.
Obviously a shotgun is not going to be able to shootdown a greyhawk or reaper style drone.
Most of the small FPV drones that attack infantry or ground vehicles do so by basically either dropping a bomb or grenade or mortar round from maybe 25 to 150 feet in the air…
Or just being rigged with some kind of an explosive to explode on contact or via a remote trigger.
(Also, these cheap FPV drones do not really handle altitudes above roughly 150 ft that well (though this will vary by exact model). Unless its a dead calm day, gusts of wind easily blow them around, draining its limited batteries as it tries to keep its position steady, severly shortening the drone’s range.)
These kinds of drones are extremely cheap, plentiful, and effective against infantry and many ground vehicles…
When it comes to these kinds of drones, shotguns are also extremely cheap and plentiful, and practical self defense weapons.
Shotguns are more useful against these kinds of FPV drones than an average assault rifle, due to the spread of shot.
They are way, way more cost effective than using a tunguska or gephard or some kind of MANPADS platform designed to shoot down jet aircraft.
Shotguns are also just more numerous, and don’t require specialized training/equipment like a dedicated AA platform or EM jamming and all the equipment that entails.
You can just give a few out to every squad or vehicle crew, and thats way, waaay better than just hoping you’re operating near enough to an expensive friendly AA platform that exists in far more limited numbers, or being SOL if you’re not.
Further, a shotgun is also just useful as a general combat weapon.
Sure, buckshot has limited range, but sometimes fights occur within tight conditions… namely trenches or an urban environment.
Also slug rounds exist and can give you more range than buck or birdshot.
Also you can use door breacher rounds, or slugs in a pinch, to blow apart door hinges and locks.
Using a gun with a 25’ effective range against a device hovering 50’ off the ground sounds not terribly effective, though.
I mean, the whole idea that Iran has a 7th gen drone army it can project to the other side of the planet is laughably absurd. And yet here we are.
This lets me know that you have never experienced a long term shot gun owner. Shotguns do not explicitly fire only shot or slugs. They never have. It is actually quite easy to tailor shells to a target. Someone with fishing line, a soldering iron, and a box of cheap pellets can make a net that will take out all commercial drones (or any of the 4 propeller style). And on top of that, there are widely available (albeit expensive) commercially available anti-drone shells. If you look in all of the footage of Russians being killed via drone, they all have a rifle with some kind of optic. These are very, very bad at shooting an agile flying target. Every hunter on the entire planet can tell you that. You know what’s great at that? A shotgun with the appropriate gauge and shell. Look, it isn’t that hard to hunt birds at over 50 yards (that’s 150’ as you so inaccurately put things in the range estimate) with a solid appropriate turkey gun. You have displayed a large amount of ignorance here.
A quick Google search shows birdshot has an effective rang on the order of 40 - 50 yards. Now, you still have to be competant with a shotgun, but the public perception of shotguns is generally skewed. They have a much tighter spread and longer range than movies and games would have one believe.
Depends on the choke. A 12 gauge full choke turkey gun can probably put a pretty tight pattern that range, but it’s gonna work better with bigger shot. If you want super fine shot and a full pattern, you aren’t shooting that far.
GarandThumb did some tests in a video a while back. IIRC he did both choked and not, along with different types of shot and slugs. everything but birdshot was pretty effective out to a couple dozen yards? I’ll track it down and drop a link after I’ve rewatched.
EDIT: so in “How Deadly are Shotguns”, they fire 00 Buck unchoked at around 7 - 8 minutes, and it is still getting a drone-sized spread at 21 yards. In the video “How Far are Shotguns Deadly? BirdShot, Slugs, and 00 Buckshot”, we see birdshot and 00 Buck used choked all the way out to 120 yards. From my perspective, birdshot and 00 buck start having a potentially viable spread at 50 yards (slowmo spread footage at 14 minutes).
I think that most likely, a pellet size between birdshot and 00 would be better, to provide that peppering effect while still delivering greater impulse per pellet. Garand also mentions in the first video that chokes can actually cause wider spread when used with shot, so unchoked shotguns may be ideal for an anti-drone function.
Sounds good. Looking forward to it
prior comment edited for ya.
Cool thanks!
Show me a shotgun with an effective range and I’ll show you a drone with a higher flight deck.
This is about drones that are cheap and can shoot you with a bullet. Sure a +1M$ drone will kill you from behind the horizon, but a repurposed consumer drone operates on the same ranges as handheld guns and as such could be shot by a handheld gun. If you can hit it, which is why you use a shotgun to increase your ods
it’s not necessarily with a bullet. Most improvised attack drones drop explosive payloads, since it’s both simpler to set up and simpler to use. Outfitting a drone with a gun takes making a complicated system for aiming it, while a payload drone just needs some 3d-printed parts, some extra wiring, and usually just a single servo.
Are the cheap drones really shooting people with bullets? I was under the impression they just had small explosives strapped to them and were single-use.
you’re correct, they do not strap guns to improvised attack drones. they’re not necessarily single-use either, though. A kamikaze drone will detonate its payload while its still attached, which is an option. There is plenty of footage of IADs which use a servo to just physically drop a payload onto targets from above, and those could potentially be used over and over. I think the kamikaze version is able to be more effective, for a variety of reasons, but both versions seem to be seeing use.
Translation: I know fuck all about shotguns beyond what I’ve seen in movies and video games.
Other people have already pointed out that your conception of shotgun spread is essentially based in video games, where the spread is (in all but basically milsim games) greatly exaggerated.
You’ve countered that drones can fly higher than an actual shotgun range.
Yep. They can.
… Did you read the article I posted?
Shotguns are being used fairly commonly by both sides.
It doesn’t matter what you or I think about how practical or useful they are…
The people fighting the war think they are practical and useful.
…
Nonetheless, here’s my attempt to explain the popularity of shotguns in Ukraine as anti drone weapons:
This is not a solution geared toward being able to shoot down any drone, of any size or capability, at any range, at any altitude.
Obviously a shotgun is not going to be able to shootdown a greyhawk or reaper style drone.
Most of the small FPV drones that attack infantry or ground vehicles do so by basically either dropping a bomb or grenade or mortar round from maybe 25 to 150 feet in the air…
Or just being rigged with some kind of an explosive to explode on contact or via a remote trigger.
(Also, these cheap FPV drones do not really handle altitudes above roughly 150 ft that well (though this will vary by exact model). Unless its a dead calm day, gusts of wind easily blow them around, draining its limited batteries as it tries to keep its position steady, severly shortening the drone’s range.)
These kinds of drones are extremely cheap, plentiful, and effective against infantry and many ground vehicles…
When it comes to these kinds of drones, shotguns are also extremely cheap and plentiful, and practical self defense weapons.
Shotguns are more useful against these kinds of FPV drones than an average assault rifle, due to the spread of shot.
They are way, way more cost effective than using a tunguska or gephard or some kind of MANPADS platform designed to shoot down jet aircraft.
Shotguns are also just more numerous, and don’t require specialized training/equipment like a dedicated AA platform or EM jamming and all the equipment that entails.
You can just give a few out to every squad or vehicle crew, and thats way, waaay better than just hoping you’re operating near enough to an expensive friendly AA platform that exists in far more limited numbers, or being SOL if you’re not.
Further, a shotgun is also just useful as a general combat weapon.
Sure, buckshot has limited range, but sometimes fights occur within tight conditions… namely trenches or an urban environment.
Also slug rounds exist and can give you more range than buck or birdshot.
Also you can use door breacher rounds, or slugs in a pinch, to blow apart door hinges and locks.
You put a lot of effort into trying to teach someone who is clearly dedicated to not learning anything. I appreciated the information at least.
I’ve also noted that a lot of these sightings are of airplanes, satellites, and stars.
I’m sure Betelgeuse is terrified.
25’ against what, humans?
I got news for you, birds that get shot are usually more than 25’ away.