“Imperialism leaves behind germs of rot which we must clinically detect and uproot from our land but from our minds as well.” - Frantz Fanon
Hello users of Hexbear, the intent of this announcement is two-fold the first is that we would like to do another community moderator drive, if you have a community idea or want to help an existing one then please send an application either through hexbear or matrix direct message.
The call for new mods is crucial to our efforts to reduce racism and misogyny on the site, we need users to report and enough mods to be able to quickly act on the reports throughout the day and night. Also, CW or content warnings are essential to the safe browsing of Hexbear.
In addition, comments or posts removed for racist or misogyny will also be accompanied by escalating temporary bans. Upvotes will not be the single reason for a ban, however they may be used in conjunction with other posts/comments/upvotes. Consider this post the warning, however, mods are encouraged to reach out to hexbear users before a long duration ban.
The second is to increase transparency with regard to the site while not repeating the mistakes of previous attempts that were ultimately counterproductive, in part due to wreckers.
Previous attempts to increase site transparency and user participation were targeted by wreckers through increasing the intensity and frequency of struggle session drama.
Using matrix’s increased level of user permissions as an anti-wrecking measure while having an increased barrier to sending messages with a clear process to gaining the ability to send messages, we hope to mitigate wrecking attempts.
Leading to the creation of the Hexbear Proposals chapo.chat matrix room.
This will be a place for site proposals and discussion before implementation on the site.
Every proposal will also be mirrored into a pinned post on the hexbear community. Any other ideas for helping to integrate the two spaces are welcome to be commented here or messaged to me directly.
Within Hexbear Proposals you can see the history of all site proposals and react to them, indicating a vote for or against a proposal.
Sending messages will be restricted to verified and active hexbear accounts older than 1 month with their matrix id in their hexbear user profile.
All top level messages within the channel must be a Proposals (idea for changing the site), Feedback (regarding non-technical aspects of the site, for technical please use https://hexbear.net/c/feedback), or Appeals (regarding admin/moderator actions).
Discussion regarding these will be within nested threads under the post.
To gain matrix verification, all you need to do is navigate to my hexbear userprofile and click the send a secure private message including your hexbear username.
In closing, I want to state that this site would not exist without the volunteer labor of the moderators, who I am deeply grateful for.
I would also like to take this moment to remind people that lemmy direct messages are not encrypted, and finally please use this post to discuss these changes, share community ideas, or express interest in moderation.
Application
What is your Hexbear username?
Do you have any preferred pronouns?
What are your thoughts on capitalism?
What are your thoughts on imperialism?
What are your thoughts on trans rights?
What are your thoughts on racial justice?
What do think about current and previous protests around the world?
What are your thoughts on Veganism and Animal Liberation?
Do you have any experience with other leftist online communities?
What did those experiences teach you?
What is your approach to moderation, and how do you work with teams?
How do you deal with online drama and people who try to start things for the sake of it?
What current comms would you be interested in moderating?
Do you have any ideas for community engagement?
What is your general time availability? (Time zone, amounts, common browsing times, etc)
Element information
Element is a messaging app that lets you talk to people over the Matrix protocol.
To get started, check out this link, where you can choose to either download Element for your platform or, if on a computer, open it in a browser.
The instructions that follow are for the desktop application and the web application, but the process is similar on all apps:
Press “Create Account”
We host our own Matrix server, so if you want you can change matrix.org to chapo.chat.
This is completely optional; users who sign up with a matrix.org username can still talk to people with chapo.chat username.
(Note: It is chapo.chat, not hexbear.net. Also, registrations aren’t always open on chapo.chat; if they’re not, just create an account on matrix.org)
Fill in a username and password
Hit register, and you’re done!
You must log in or # to comment.
If y’all are going to start making upvotes public, then mod actions should also be public, not hidden behind anonymity or “modding accounts”. “Radical openness” in one direction isn’t radical openness, it’s just an excuse to abuse mod powers. If we have a right how people upvote, we have a right to see how you all are enforcing or aren’t enforcing things.
The second is to increase transparency with regard to the site while not repeating the mistakes of previous attempts that were ultimately counterproductive, in part due to wreckers.
Previous attempts to increase site transparency and user participation were targeted by wreckers through increasing the intensity and frequency of struggle session drama.
Would be really interested to know what exactly these are referring to.
What previous attempts are being alluded to?
Who are the wreckers?What happened? I missed it.
Stalin did nothing wrong, neither did the mod politburu.
We should have gotten rid of upvotes back when we got rid of downvotes. Both are toxic.
haha I upvoted you (I agree btw, it’s just ironic)
The best part is that it will force mods to constantly highlight effort posts, which will be slightly less time consuming than over policing upvotes.
if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear huh :)
How about just not issuing bans over upvotes.
If an undesirable comment has too many upvotes just let people reply and dunk on it if it’s bad, and let people who agree reply back. I don’t believe that anyone is being protected by the way you’re doing things right now.
Better than having hyper mods looking for reasons to ban people and extrapolating what users mean when they comment/upvote
I just hope the current leadership (who have done a great job over the last few years) put a lot of effort into vetting new mods and admins to retain the proper class-character of the website which safeguards it from reactionary wrecking.
If they find auditing upvotes to be a useful tool towards that end, so be it. At the end of the day mods and admins will have certain powers. Making those powers transparent is an acceptable compromise which I hope can build more trust between the users and mods.
It would be better to let inactive comms close/lock rather than insert mods that aren’t properly vetted out of desperation.
…I am 90 percent sure most of our mods started out petite bourgeoisie lol.
The upvote problem can be easily solved by having a range of emotions as response to a comment instead of a singular upbear, like what Telegram/Whatsapp have been doing, but we can do without the negative emojis.
Thumbs up = GOOD post!
Heart = Send love
Laughter with tears = that’s funny
Hmm = not sure I agree but thought provoking for sure
Angry face = I’m pissed reading that!The final score is then tallied by adding up all the different responses. Just a suggestion.
I think the angry face would become a downvote but I like the idea of multiple positive options.
Laughter with tears is also a great downvote option
Not really, it’s an appropriate response for when you read news like “Israeli airstrikes just killed another 100 civilians”, not so much as a disagreement. It’s still technically an “upvote” as it brings the score up.
I like this proposal.
Unfortunately I think it’s unrealistic with the platform we are given
Someday someone will use Hexbear Proposals to do a marriage proposal
How does that work if none of us meet irl?
Personally, I am in favor of giving people a timeout if they upvote reactionary comments/posts. A one day temp ban and a note saying why seems like a completely reasonable response to me. Also in favor of getting rid of upvotes altogether, though it kinda defeats the purpose of being on a reddit clone to begin with so idk.
Something that I believe needs to be taken into consideration but has barely been referenced is how (un)educated someone may be when it comes to leftist theory/thought.
For example, at least one of the people who were banned for upvoting the comment explained how they interpreted it (and one mentioned ADHD too I think) in a way that conflicted with how an admin summarized it (a red-brown alliance).
A lot of other people summarized this site as the “dirty owl pig poop forum” in the other struggle session, so if the standard is going to be raised when it comes to how well versed a person is in leftist theory that’s fine but it should be openly stated. Given that there’s a disability community, and I believe at least one person with severe CFS, going down this route will probably lead to more conflicts, however.
Regardless, for anyone who genuinely cares about the users on this site or imparting leftist thought, having what’s pretty much a community to direct your “vitriol and scorn at” when someone slips up (on top of public ridicule due to the nature of the mod log) seems like an unfathomably bad idea.
:ah-shit-here-we-go-again:
Is that we us or we you?
We are a continuous writhing mass of pup girl and poster.
Ty for the explanation.
response under spoiler tag to keep thread length manageable
I am personally changing the way I use the site to be more thorough about how and when I upbear comments and posts.
Rather than pre-emptively upbearing a comment or post as I come to it, reading it, scrolling down and then removing the upvote if I disagree, I will only upbear after I have fully read it. It is going to take a while to replace the old habit and it requires a more deliberate and thorough reading of each comment and post but I think it is ultimately for the better.
I cannot assume by default that because I’m browsing HB first that the content is anodyne, and I do not want comrades, especially those marginalised, to see my upbears as signs of endorsement of questionable or objectionable content or ideology. Going forward, I accept that that’s how they are seen by enough (if not the majority) of the user base so that’s how I will use them.
I unreservedly apologise for the times that I have upvoted horrendous content. I am not going to pretend that all of that is through inattention, force of habit or incorrect reading either. I know there are times when I have consciously upvoted a comment or post that I have understood and agreed with that was later removed. On the occasions I have noticed, I have removed my upvote and visited the mod log to learn why. I will educate myself more and excise the brainworms.
It is good to know that mods will look at posting history and upbear patterns as additional context before taking actions, and that reassures me that the limited interventions are not arbitrary for HB users
We should seriously consider implementing special conduct rules for struggle sessions, to make them less toxic.
The reason most of us hate struggle sessions, the reason so many of us lay low until these things die down, is that struggle sessions are too fast and chaotic to be dialogue. Everyone gets too heated and pressed and defensive to actually listen or reach an understanding, so it turns into people talking past each other, sometimes building up personal resentments that last long after the struggle session ends and have little to do with the original disagreement. If you wade into it, you risk making enemies, and you don’t chance making friends.
Just as spouses should approach conflict constructively because they care about their marriage, hexbears should approach conflict constructively because they care about the site.
If someone can’t do that, they should be kicked out of the struggle session.
Slow down. Listen patiently to each other. Try to understand where the other person is coming from. Acknowledge them as a person. Respond in good faith without attacking. Maybe spend a few minutes collecting your thoughts and processing your emotions before you start typing. The frantic pace and hostile tone of a struggle session put pressure on you to respond fast and become hostile to defend yourself, but when you do that you make the thread even more frantic and hostile, in a runaway feedback loop. It’s a collective phenomenon where no single person has the off switch—and, consequently, no one feels responsible for their behavior.
Which is why we need rules, and a site culture of conflict resolution, to change our behavior on a collective level.
Ideally we would have an actual dedicated thread mode, “slow mode” or “struggle session mode,” which would limit the pace of comments and encourage thoughtful effortposts over whirlwind bickering, but that would require new code, and we would still need civility rules on top of that anyway, so let’s start with the rules.
How embarrassing is it if no one needs to wreck the site because we fucking wreck it ourselves? How bad does that make leftists look? Conflict resolution is a vital anti-wrecker skill, it should be part of leftist culture online and in person. It’s so fucking terminally online and shameful that we can’t work things out like adults.
The new proposal room will have the tools to help slow down the conversation about site change proposals, feedback, and appeals. I agree with you completely and hope that these changes will actualize that.
It’s a great idea, I totally support it, but not all struggle sessions are related to site changes, in fact most have not been, so the matrix alone isn’t enough.
In the coming weeks and months I think we need to talk about how we handle conflict here, and maybe draft some rules and guidelines about it. This would also help with inclusion. We need to work toward a site culture where people are able to listen to criticism from POC, queer, and femme users without getting defensive.
very true and an excellent idea
i would like to see that become a reality
I’ll be honest having my upvotes monitored by secret committee has always made me very uncomfortable and I do not like this as an approach to push the site into whatever the mods want to unilaterally create. I genuinely thought that ended after that giant purge in the first year I didn’t know mods still did that.
This is not to say I’m against any of the reasons mods want to moderate upbears. I just don’t like feeling like I’m under a microscope even if Ihave nothing to hide. I know it’s not popular to say, but I know I’m not just talking for myself here.
Traffic has seemed way down since the comm struggle session and I worry mods underestimate the chilling effect that unapologetic, undemocratic, heavy-handed moderation has an an ultimately delicate community.
When I am tired at the end of the day I often upvote comments and posts without thinking. I’m sure lots of people are like this
Admittedly same, though I don’t need to be tired to do it. And sometimes I upvote comments of conflicting opinions (both even) after reading them over too tbh. Not to excuse things like this, but rather it’s definitely good we’re having this discussion.
When 2 Hexbear users are in disagreement, I will often find that they both make points that I find compelling and thought provoking and I’ll end up upbearing the whole discussion thread.
I will upvote bad posts if I think it makes people more likely to see good posts down the chain (obviously within reason). Especially now with federation.
Same!
This isn’t a constant thing, the process is someone says: “Hey this really reactionary comment got a lot of upvotes can you check that?”
A user that shows up on a few of these requests are going to get closer attention, this is what we mean by upvotes are used along with modlog and post/comment history when determining the appropriate mod action to take against someone.
As per the previous struggle session, we have changed the way that site changes are discussed and enacted to give more transparency/user interaction.
We still have hundreds of daily active users, more than we had months ago, that being said this site has never prioritized growth or user count. What we have prioritized is making this as protected of a space possible for our marginalized comrades.
These comrades have asked for the recent changes, and without a doubt I could have communicated better. To that end we seek to improve the transparency process and allow more user engagement with said process
Thank you for your response. I do think it’s one thing to look into upvotes to check if it’s just new accounts that are upvoting something reactionary, but quite another to be disciplining users in otherwise good standing for an upbear. I think it’s better to just delete the post and accept without policing that some people upvoted it.
I would add that adding transparency is good, but quite different from a democratic process. For example with this decision to be monitoring people’s voting behavior, in other comments you have been quite transparent about your intention to continue doing so which doesn’t really feel much better than you doing it in private - either way it seems like you have already made up your minds to continue doing it. Being transparent and permitting discussion without any sense that you might ever alter behavior based on user feedback doesn’t feel like much an improvement to me but I guess that’s just me this isn’t a hill I’m interested in dying on.
this site has never prioritized growth or user count.
I’d also want to remind you that the mod team is not the site. That may indeed be true for the mod team, but I’ve been here since day one and there are many users on the site who do indeed prioritize growth, myself included. That doesn’t mean I prioritize it above anything else, but I do think this is a good positive community and want to to thrive and at least have a consistent replacement of good comrades as people naturally move on.
Personal opinion, but I think a lot of people (as well as this site in general) need to expand beyond this site- as in, this would go regardless, no one (not even the mods/etc) should have this as their one source of socializing/human interaction (probably).
I don’t think I’d say I prioritize growth, but I think it would be nice if this site could be a space from which people could expand outwards and develop their own circles (which if it fit their priorities/preferences, would prioritize growth). Things like the recent webfishing groups, tracha, hexcraft (still need to check it out myself), the movie-watching stuff, etc. all would be such examples. The world is big enough for infinite social circles that harmonize with one another (ideally, realistically this doesn’t always happen but it absolutely can and usually does, people just don’t look at the successes which are a daily part of life for pretty much almost everyone).
Not entirely sure where I’m going from this, but having a discussion about what Hexbear’s priorities are would probably be a good idea. And then also having a discussion about how to create- if not on Hexbear, adjacent to and maybe mutually benefiting from it- other spaces with other priorities would probably also be cool.
I think whether the site withers of flourishes is completely orthogonal to the question of having diverse social circles.
I organize in real life with real people, and I have a rich, diverse and nourishing social circle. That has literally nothing to do with whether it’s good that this site gets more engaged and active users.
Agreed, though FWIW flourishing is also a matter of preference. Quality vs. quantity and all that. Not sure if I’d say the site has the best mix of it now or not, but it’s probably better than anywhere else other than Lemmygrad in my opinion, while also having the added benefit of being more active/shitposty/etc than the grad.
Do we want more engaged and active users if they’re coming from- I dunno, lemm.ee, or lemmy.world, for instance? I don’t think anyone here would want that, or rather there’s a reason we’re all on here. It’s something to be discussed, definitely, but whatever it is will have to be a balancing act of such conflicting interests, sadly.
Do we want more engaged and active users if they’re coming from- I dunno, lemm.ee for instance? I don’t think anyone here would want that
I dont think Lemmygrad is better. Too slow to be as entertaining, and not enough effort posts to bridge that gap. Engagement matters, but we also don’t have to follow to VC capital oriented norm of fostering engagement.
Are admins able to see how often someone upvotes posts?
Like, if a user who doesn’t upvote very often has upvoted a lot of banned comments, that might be indicative of their opinions, but someone who upvotes everything isn’t necessarily endorsing those comments.No we are only able to see votes on a specific post/comment
This isn’t a constant thing, the process is someone says: “Hey this really reactionary comment got a lot of upvotes can you check that?”
In this case, did a moderator request it? In another comment you said:
For active hexbear users, we do encourage a mod sending a warning message, however that is not required. We frequently give 1 day temp bans without such a warning and while we do wish we had more mod tools available, we work with what we’ve got.
but afaik mods can’t see votes, only admins. Did an admin relay this info to a mod? Did a mod request the users be banned and an admin carried it out? Or did an admin initiate this? (Or am I wrong and mods can see votes in their comms?)
More than one person requested the admin vote audit, both mods and users.
Only admins can see votes, we are seeing if we can change that setting so all users can.
For site moderation issues, yes a mod often says “I banned this user from the community and think they need a site action”
I’ve said it before, but the amount of drama that public upvotes would generate would be so apocalyptic that I almost want to see it happen
Guangxu clique except it is 25 people from the Trans mega fighting ten people from the news mega and three guys in the middle who hate Iran because it clamped down on a niche Communist movement during the 80s.
we are seeing if we can change that setting so all users can
This would make me feel less safe. Do not think the vote opinion of user should be public. Vulnerable user more unsafe.
Only admins can see votes, we are seeing if we can change that setting so all users can.
This is a horrible idea. Seems like a perfect util for feds to use to deanonymize users by looking for usage and voting patterns. If this happens, I will probably only use Hexbear while logged out, and I suspect others will too, killing engagement.
we would definitely put this to a vote before implementing, just investigating if it is even possible.
Removed by mod
oh my god, what kind of spambot runs right up to an admin and does its thing.
edit: I know it’s a bot and can’t really strategize, but I literally watched this live going “hold up what the devil is this? Clicks account to see who/what this is Oh wait it’s already banned lmao owned”
I can respect the ambition of a bot that shoots their shot like that
