I have a passport, but aside from some half-remembered Spanish courses from high school, I’m completely monolingual.
Sadly, the US prohibits travel to Cuba for vacations, otherwise I’d gladly put some money into their economy.
I didn’t realize how beautiful the Azores were, I kind of thought all the islands in the middle of the atlantic would be desolate and windswept, but it has stunning tropical mountains, and the rats on the island were introduced by vikings, though there is no written or material record of when the Vikings discovered the azores, or how many visited for how long.
I’d say if you go to any sovereign nation (versus an ongoing occupied colony like Hawaii or PR), just don’t try and haggle with people and try and spend money with locals explicitly instead of companies owned by foreigners. Tourism is a way that money gets to people who need it within a world that is imperfect, but it’s not like spending that money in Florida and lining the pockets of actual fascists is a more just position than giving that money to a Cuban or even a Hawaiian for that matter. Although it would be near impossible to go to Hawaii and only spend money with Hawaiians, going to any sovereign nation will be much easier to support the people who could use some extra money.
if you’re leaving the us this is like asking for animal products made without animal exploitation. go to the fl keys if it actully means that much to you. or deal with the reality that the American empire has dominated the global south and has basically broken whole countries so that rich Americans can do slavery roleplay. you can go and not engage in the more obscene elements but if you will never not be complicit, you can’t avoid these unpleasant truths you have to acknowledge them. and as someone who has family in one of these beautiful island paradises where most of my relatives are living in conditions Americans could never imagine… its whatever if you go, I dont think you’re a bad person right? the same way I don’t personally think people who eat animal products are bad people (pretty sure you disagree there tho lol) but you cannot deny the reality that they are engaging in unnecessary exploitation.
but yeah you have tropical beaches at home (they suck but that’s what happens when you destroy the environment). i saw you considering Vietnam, that seems extreme just to go to a beach, dont get me wrong i wanna visit one day but that’s so much money JUST to go to a beach.
I already responded to you but I wanted to add
i saw you considering Vietnam, that seems extreme just to go to a beach, dont get me wrong i wanna visit one day but that’s so much money JUST to go to a beach.
Look, I really like beaches, okay
But on a more serious note, this goes a bit further than “just to go to a beach.” What I have in mind is a once-in-a-lifetime trip: not just a vacation, but the best vacation I could possibly have given my means and moral principles. And the only place for my ideal vacation is a tropical beach.
ooohh then maybe Vietnam, its also one of the best places for vegans to travel!!! listen I don’t think its WRONG to travel just that the tourism industry is inherently exploitative and there is no place untouched by colonialism. if you pick a place, do your research, actually engage with the culture, always tip really well, and leave as minimal impact on the environment as you reasonably can I think that’s fine. but as you can see in this very thread there are examples of white “leftist” saying the most repulsive chauvinistic about these countries. simply try to be the opposite of that and you’ll be good. (also TIP goddammit nobody fucking tips, tip as much as you would in America) you cant buy a t-shirt without engaging in exploitation ya know. you just need to be aware of that and act accordingly. 99% of white tourists fail at basic human decency.
Haha believe me, I am about as far from the stereotypical loud entitled American tourist as you can get. My philosophy is that if I vacation in a foreign country, I am a guest, and I want to be a good guest.
you love to see it
like people are saying Cuba? thats so fucking insane? you think Cuba is free to control their economy free from us influences and exploitation. like Cuba would be WORSE you get that right. your country is literally embargoing them now a significant amount of their economy has to be dedicated to the indignant tourism industry. making your country a white playground is not liberatory, its a humiliation forced upon the Cuban people. you cannot delude yourself out of your privilege, you will never be on equal ground to these people your country is strangling.
also I’m going to Cuba next year for vaycay (gonna tell the gov we are visiting family shhhh)
I’m just not under any delusions about not having to consider my actions.Yeah, I don’t get it. As I said, if you’re so concerned about not doing an imperialism, the mainland US has so much to offer in terms of natural beauty, there has to be a beach somewhere ffs.
Also, if this is actually such an important ethical problem for you, you literally can’t go outside the mainland without a guilty conscience.
The mainland is also stolen land, there’s no ethical consumption etc etc.
At least in cuba you’re contributing much needed foreign currency to their socialist economy in contravention of the wishes of the US state (not to say there are no issues with tourism in cuba, but there are some mitigating factors that put it above capitalist, especially settler-colonial states to me). In florida you’re just contributing to the desantis regime and the utter destruction of indigenous lands.
In florida you’re just contributing to the desantis regime and the utter destruction of indigenous lands.
Absolutely, the US itself is definitely the worst in terms of “being complicit in colonial exploitation”. I don’t know what the “right” answer is though
yeah i honestly feel like this idea leads to leftists acting like drunk/belligerent assclowns in cuba. and you’re right, we have like every typeof environment you can want without leaving mainland America. mountains, canyons, beaches, wetlands, you literally never need to leave to see them all. save the money, travel domestically and donate to cuba aid if you want to do the most ethical thing.
Can’t say this is the answer I wanted to hear, but I appreciate the honesty and analysis. Thanks!
thanks for listening! And hey, mainland America has so many beautiful locations, you can definitely still travel and have really fun trips and memories.
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Vietnam
Ooh, that seems like a good pick. How much Vietnamese would I need to know to get by?
Vietnam gets so many tourists you can travel pretty much anywhere without a word of the language, though knowing the basics isn’t going to hurt.
Same is true of most of the world honestly. Is it an American thing to think you can’t travel without language skills?
no idea. my parents went last year and speaking french will get you a long way according to my dad who speaks french.
you could buy a phrase book that spells things out in english phonetically, you’ll sound like a dingus but it would work
I found a english-vietnamese phrasebook PDF http://www.culturalorientation.net/resources-for-refugees/phrasebooks/english-vietnamese-phrasebook-with-useful-wordlist , its not phonetic so the accent marks are gonna be tough since its a tonal language
text to speech could probably work though
The old guard still speak french due to colonialism and the school system that existed. They younger generations tend to be much more fluent in English so it’s about picking your audience imo.
In tourist areas you’ll be fine but if you’re off the beaten path then it’s going to be harder. It also depends on who you want to communicate with - bartender? They probably speak some English. Street vendor? Depends if they are in a touristy area or if they are in any area less frequented by tourists. Person on the streeet? Maybe, especially if they are younger, but maybe not.
Vietnamese is hard because it’s a tonal language and it uses a mostly-Latin writing system but it can be quite deceptive as to how to pronounce words (e.g. the last name Nguyen), so it’s better not to assume that you can’t say the word just because you can read the letters. Vietnamese people are generally very friendly and accommodating, so you could absolutely ask a person on the street to help you with translating and you’ve got a good chance of them saying yes. Also they tend to be very patient so it’s unlikely that you’ll get a rude response by doing things like pointing at a menu and holding up one finger to indicate an order.
Do you have any dietary requirements? I’d recommend learning the words for those if you do. Otherwise a few phrases will be enough to get you by such as “Xin chào” for hello (Sin Jow - as in the word jowl minus the l), “Cảm ơn” or “Cảm ơn nhiều” for thank you/thank you very much (“Gam/Gum ehh-n new”). Note that the letters are recognisable but if you tried to pronounce these words phonetically as a native english speaker it will be utterly incomprehensible to a Vietnamese person. It’s not the most English-friendly country in SE Asia that I’ve ever been to but it’s not that hard either.
This is good info, thanks!
Do you have any dietary requirements?
Okay, so you’re definitely going to need:
Tôi ăn thuần chay (Toy uhn tw-one jai) tw-one as if you were halfway to saying two before changing to the word one very quickly, and jai rhyming with sly. This means “I am vegan”.
Xin một [insert food/drink] thuần chay, e.g. “xin một bánh mì thuần chay” (Sin mop bahn mee tw-one jai) - “mop” is said with a stop on p sound. You know when we say words like hot or heat how we don’t usually breathe into the T at the end but we just come to a sort of stop, where it’s almost a T and a D mixed but we have no emphasis on the last bit; we don’t breathe into the T and say “hea-tuhh” like people speaking with upperclass British accents do? That’s how you should say “Mop”. The P should be basically silent instead of “Mop-puh”, if that makes sense. No air should escape your mouth when you say the P.
Anyway, that’s how you say “Please, one [dish] (made) vegan”. So if you go into a restaurant and say that you’re vegan they will probably understand. Then say “xin một [food dish] thuần chay” and they’ll understand because you’re priming them with information. You can also point at the menu or a picture instead of saying the food name. I’d confirm with an “Okay?” to get them to confirm. If they say no then you can try again or negotiate with them from there.
But please make sure that you listen to them when they repeat the order back you because “chay” just means vegetarian. So if you hear “Bánh Xèo Chay”, make sure to correct them with “Bánh Xèo Thuần Chay”.
Nice, thanks! Even if I don’t end up going to Vietnam, I learned something cool today.
i dont know if the law has changed recently but my roommate says he goes to cuba every time he travels home to the states. He just makes sure he does it on the way back and goes via canada or mexico. All that happens is that you get singled out for additional screening and questioning when they see the cuba stamp on your passport. You are a U.S citizen so they cant not let you back home.
Anyway I just got back from bohol, phillipines. On alona beach there is a strip of hotels and restaurants and resorts right on the beach and there is an excellent reef to scuba dive on right on the beach as well. Everyone who i ever needed to deal with was able to speak english and all signage is in english. There was a few backpackers and young folks but the bulk of the tourists there (and it is very touristy, though nothing like pattaya or bali) were rich asians, and a few conspicuous sexpat westerners with their girlfriends.
I was stealthing onto the rich henan resort at the end of the beach where my family was staying. I might not have enjoyed alona beach as much if i couldnt hang out there but i believe you can also pay for access to their facilities for the day.
It was all very cheap but it wasnt quite the relaxing beach holiday i wanted since i was dealing with insomnia and it was stressful feeling like you were getting ripped off on change all the time and feeling like everything i ate or drank was playing russian roulette.
Everyone who i ever needed to deal with was able to speak english and all signage is in english. There was a few backpackers and young folks but the bulk of the tourists there (and it is very touristy, though nothing like pattaya or bali) were rich asians, and a few sexpat westerners with their girlfriends.
isn’t this one of the clearest manifestations of colonial exploitation?
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They treat white people like royalty and i dont think its just because tourism is so valuable to them as an industry.
Could you elaborate on what you mean?
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If you’re describing this as a pro, I do believe you missed the point of the question.
You are a U.S citizen so they cant not let you back home.
As a precaution, if you do go, might be smart to ask for the Cuba stamp to be on an insert so US immigration doesn’t see it
Is it prohibitively expense to go to Cuba via Mexico?
Hainan maybe? It’s an island at the same latitude as Hawaii but it’s in the PRC.
I spent a couple weeks there in the early '00s. One of the best places I’ve been. The diving there was breath taking.
I haven’t been to Hainan specifically but I have been to China a couple times and loved it.
I’ll check it out, thanks!
New Jersey
literally no, sorry
Florida lol
Fuck that place, so glad I left, but the beaches are pretty nice
Seminole tribes would like a word
As far as I’m aware the Seminole Nation doesn’t discourage tourism in the same way indigenous people in Hawai’i do. I am in no way an expert and if I’m wrong I will happily change my tune, but if I understand right the Seminole Nation’s economy is about as reliant on tourism as the rest of the state.
Imo it falls into the “no ethical consumption under capitalism” bucket but not the “especially unethical consumption even within capitalism” one.
There’s the other argument that giving money to US companies is particularly bad, but that is a bit hard to get around when you live here. So “no ethical consumption”
I have been seriously considering moving to Brazil since a comrade down their offered me an apartment to rent from his mom for a very very good deal.
Just gotta save some money and learn Portuguese first.
and learn Portuguese first.
You’ll have a much easier time learning Portuguese if already in Brazil. Both exposure and necessity are great learning aids.
Yeah I am leaning toward that option honestly. If I can just save up like 10k I can probably just figure shit out when I get there.
Also the apartment in question is in Santos which is a very touristy town.
what kinda visa options are you planning?
Probably not. Mediterranean Spain is nice.
There’s also the Canary Islands, which were uninhabited when the Spanish colonized them in the 1400s. Bit warmer than mediterranean spain.
I guess Madeira would be along the same lines too?
Right. But A bit further north and not really known for its beaches.
Fair enough!
Brighton
Cuba
Guna territory?
Proudly indigenous.
Never heard of this place! I’ll check it out.
