i can’t even guess as to why they went quiet. not one guess at all. we will never know.
edit: well they’re not quiet now once they get called out
Throwing your vote in the trash is a vote for garbage, and garbage won by a landslide.
The garbage voters really hate to hear it.
well they’re not quiet now once they get called out
If you call people out, they’re gonna respond, lol. (edited this part to not be accidentally included as part of the quote above)
tl;dr is we need more options than Democrats and Republicans, and voting third party should be only part of the solution to educate and mobilize the working class.
I think it is a false narrative that “voting blue no matter who” is the sole thing preventing the USA from succumbing to fascism. The reason government power see-saws between Democrats and Republicans is because it is hard for either party to maintain any legitimacy of being helpful to working class people when the only people both sides are helping are the wealthy. People get fed up with Democrats doing nothing for them and vote Republican. They then get fed up with Republicans doing nothing and vote Democrat.
Are the Democrats current policies better than Republicans in some areas? Sure. But the Democrats have also continued some of the worst Republican policies, and the ones they have better stances on are small and in my opinion offer no long term solutions to help the working class. So one proposed solution is to use our limited power of voting for another party that aligns more with working class needs. That should also only be one part of a larger scheme to educate and mobilize the working class.
Blame the at most 2 million or so antigenocide protestors, instead of the 75 million who voted for Trump. Considering Harris was short 8 million votes, it didn’t really matter.
Blame Trump voters first, but also blame Harris for running a dog shit campaign where she leaned right to pickup Republicans, and ended up picking up zero R voters while completely alienating the progressives and losing 14 million votes from Biden’s 2020 performance.
The Dems don’t seem too upset though. They would rather lose to the republicans than let progressives have any sort of power.
It is not only that she ran to the right but she did so with Liz Cheney who represents the old guard that is no longer trusted by them. She is nothing but a liability and is moreso indicative of the rot in the establishment which seems to identify more with Republican-lite than anything the rank and file of the party wants. That same establishment is trying to decide which minority to throw under the bus now rather than own up to their failures.
That’s not how voting works in the US.
Gotta love libs STILL blaming their overwhelming loss and support for genocide on people that they’ve banned.
Front page of Lemmy is just as bad as the front page of reddit lmao
You can continue blaming everything but the DNC, but it won’t change the fact that they are complicit in genocide and no matter who was in charge, the US will continue it’s legacy of genocide worldwide.
fuckem. And honestly, if i get banned from a sub for calling out their bullshit then that’s a sub I’m not interested in being in.
But you did
I have not been quiet. The writing’s on the wall. First undocumented immigrants, and the democrats are going after trans people next, and I can’t stand it.
Friendly reminder that Joe Biden is still the president and could stop sending weapons to Israel right now if he wanted to. But he doesn’t.
I don’t know how government works or what laws are.
Yeah we can tell.
Thank god Trump is taking over right.
Yeah, maybe the liberals who were out to brunch for the last four years might suddenly start giving a shit again. JK who am I kidding, the only thing liberals are capable of is marching around with signs peacefully while pissing their pants.
As ineffectual as the democrat party they simp for. Pathetic.
“But but genocide joe, such a catchy name! Why do I have to think further than some meme?” -💩
Didn’t really think there was that many of them on here. I feel like every time I see memes like this on here it’s just people preaching to the choir.
They banned people and then celebrate the silence.
Focusing on these people was an unhealthy obsession, and most of the attempts to reach them were needlessly adversarial to the point of being toxic and hardening their resolve to not vote for Harris. Gaza was a losing issue for Harris and this attention just kept it front and center. Sad to see the obsession continue.
Anyways, this is not why Harris lost. It was a landslide and Trump won the popular vote by a huge margin. Americans don’t vote in large numbers on foreign policy - not unless Americans are getting killed. Kamala lost because she kept telling struggling families that the economy is great.
The funniest thing about is like, I live in fucking Illinois. And I voted for the Dems downballot where it actually matters. All the words spilled, all the hate and anger that’s been directed at me, has been over a single third party vote in one of the safest states in the country. The vast majority of Americans live in safe states too.
In reality it’s just about enforcing the social norms of the tribe.
I’m in Illinois as well. I’ve personally come to the conclusion that voting third party isn’t a great option. The only third party that ostensibly aligns with me is the Green party, but their strategies make it clear to me that they actually exist to spoil elections, not advance issues. Our votes are technically irrelevant, but I’d rather not help legitimize the Green party.
I voted for PSL, personally.
I can respect that. It definitely sends the right message.
Focusing on these people was an unhealthy obsession, and most of the attempts to reach them were needlessly adversarial to the point of being toxic and hardening their resolve to not vote for Harris.
This is exactly why so many dug their heels in. The idea of leftists making a weird or nonsensical decision baffled and enraged many other leftists and liberals, the unhealthy obsession metastasized to full-blown cancer towards the election, I swear the left was arguing more with itself than the MAGA’s, and that’s also by design, nobody wants to debate the right because they’re insane, so better focus efforts on those who supposedly want the same thing, right?
The funny thing about the human mind that nobody gets yet is that attention is more important than what kind of attention, the fact that their obstinance about not voting democrat was getting them so much attention, making them feel like the persecuted minority, getting support from like-minds, it just created a mini-MAGA front. And sure, it probably wouldn’t have changed the election but it shows clearly how the only thing standing between us and a better future is our own idiocy as a species. Every damn time, we’re going to sabotage our collective future because of our personal feelings. MAGA are just people less aware of the world and more happy to be who they are. That’s the only difference between us.
Adding in an edit: downvote it all you want, you know it’s true. Hell, in his last election he DID lose the popular vote. Some democracy. More voters, actual people who took the time and effort to go and actually vote, wanted a different president, and got shown their votes don’t matter unless they live in a swing state.
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Anyways, this is not why Harris lost. It was a landslide and Trump won the popular vote by a huge margin. Americans don’t vote in large numbers on foreign policy - not unless Americans are getting killed. Kamala lost because she
kept telling struggling families that the economy is greathas a vagina.Fixed that for you.
Also she didn’t lose the pop vote by a huge margin. 3 million people is literally 1 percent of the population.
If this were a democracy and pop vote mattered, there are probably 10x that number of people who would have actually voted. Then I’d guess she would have won. Look at (greater area) Chicago. 9.5m people. 12 million people total in IL. how many Illinoisans didn’t vote because why does it matter? About 2 million probably.
Disclaimer: That last paragraph was obviously arbitrary.
Interesting that you seem to assume that Harris would have done better with the people who didn’t vote than with the people who did.
A Democrats losing the popular vote to a Republican by 1% is a huge margin. What matters isn’t the entire population, it’s the swing voters.
Democrats straddle the desires of their wealthy patrons and the desires of voters. They always try to give the people just enough to scrape by. The result is that we consistently have elections with tight margins. Democrats are playing a game of high stakes chicken every election.
You’re assuming that the entire 1% were swing voters. So no. It’s not a huge margin.
Ok average nearly half the country votes, every year. Yeah - that number should be way up - but 75% of those votes wouldn’t matter. That’s the point/problem.
If at least 1% over the electorate is swing voters, then that definitionally makes up the critical 1% Trump margin. That’s just what swing voters are.
The actual margin is more like 4-5% when you consider the extra votes Democrats need to win the electoral college.
Stop blaming vaginas for not getting votes
I will. When misogyny goes away.
I will. When women can control their own bodies lmfao.
I can keep going but. Shut the hell up man.
While establishing actual democracy is absolutely a priority, it’s not a guarantee that we would have had a better outcome. Australia has RCV and compulsory voting already, and are trending right anyways.
No it won’t magically fix everything but at least the voters would have no one to blame but themselves for who they elect to office.
I can’t imagine posting shit this braindead
It’s so weird. Gaza is extremely important and deserving of the attention. It’s genocide, and it’s horrific. But is no one else important? Because we can’t save Gaza immediately, it’s really better to set outselevs on fire so we can burn together? Like, real talk, Harris will be fine. Biden will be fine. It’s our friends and neighbors who are going to be deported, harassed, laid off, homeless and scared for a minimum of four years.
I wouldn’t say they’re gone though. I’ve been down voted, told “my kind/type” are all talk, or that I’m okay with murder, I voted for genocide, the usual. But I couldn’t sit and do nothing.
But I guess this is what they wanted. The dems have been taught a lesson, we’re moving headfirst into a dictatorship, and Gaza is no safer, but their conscious is clear, somehow.
I honestly wouldn’t be surprised if they are Isreali or Russian psy ops accounts (or at least useful idiots that have bought the psy ops).
When the war started, Lemmy was overrun by the “criticism of Isreal is antisemetic” accounts. That was rejected pretty hard. Those guys disappeared, and the “never genocide” people took their place.
It almost seems like a change in tactics to achieve the same goal.
the “criticism of Israel is antisemitism” accounts are gone because they were banned. Zionism and the insistence that a genocidal state is indivisible from an entire ethnic group is racism, and against most instance’s TOS.
“never genocide” content does not break TOS and so has lasted since october 7th through today. to the uninformed eye this dynamic might look like a change in tactic but really it’s just two different groups, one which got banned after a few days or weeks and one which did not.
just correcting your “change in tactics”/“it’s astroturfing” narrative. i don’t think it holds up in comparison to a much more likely explanation, and i might even use the word ludicrous to describe your argument unless you can provide further evidence.
Considering the fediverse’s low market share compared to non-federated alternatives, I’d be suprised if any malicious actors waste time and money running a psyops here. Like, you reach more people on Reddit for the same ammount of effort.
Psyops are everywhere
thank you for saying this skskkssk. Occam’s razor: is it more likely that foreign psy-ops have incredibly poor cost-benefit analysis skills (while excelling in everything else), or that a couple dozen people have deeply held beliefs that led them to be vocal in the midst of tragedy?
call me crazy but the latter narrative makes a lot fewer assumptions.
You’d reach more people on bigger platforms, but it is easier to steer the conversation with smaller groups. So I don’t think its totally clear-cut where the best psyops targets would be.
That is the exact mindset they are looking for.
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I don’t think astroturfing means what you think it means.
Oh, don’t worry, the conspiracy theory is capable of making sense of any incongruities like that, just like OP can explain away the fact that we didn’t actually disappear as predicted. You see, this is where the Russian bots practice their techniques and try out different lines before deploying them on a larger scale.
It’s not based on evidence or reason so the believers will never be convinced based on evidence or reason, same as any other conspiracy theory.
It was 100% astroturfing, 20% people falling for bullshit. Sounds like politics
15% concentrated power of shill.
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Absolutely! There is no doubt. Such fallacies is what they do. Mostly they go with “they are all the same”, then take an absolute approach attack on the principles of the left(er) political party.
It’s our friends and neighbors who are going to be deported, harassed, laid off, homeless and scared for a minimum of four years.
Already happening under biden. 🙄
I mean yes that’s true… but we already know the pattern, Trump is going to quintuple the pace and extremeness of it. The next democrat to win (if one ever does again), will continue the status quo set by the previous republican, possibly slightly reduce the acceleration of it (while still allowing it to accelerate).
And you will vote blue no matter who, continuing the cycle.
Let this country fucking burn. Let the boomers who voted this fraud in lose their social security and Medicare. They’ll learn.
It’s unlikely we’re making it 2030 between climate change and the risk of nukes.
honestly my vote doesn’t matter anyway. Claudia De La Cruz got .1% of my states vote… It was already known before it started that trump was going to win by a double digit percentage.
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Out of curiosity, what wouldn’t you be willing to compromise on? If I had a party wanting to kill your mom and dad and another who just wants to kill your dad, would you make that compromise?
Perhaps a better, real-world example is that this moral calculus says that the Democrats should abandon trans people and trans issues. The logic is inescapable: Trans issues turn away a lot of voters, and it’s a really strong talking point for the other party. If they win, the Democrats could protect the LGB community, and women’s rights.
Surely it’s better to protect the LGB community and women’s rights, but not trans people, than to protect none of them, right?
(NB: This is rhetorical. I don’t believe it.)
Exactly. When every national poll shows things like trans rights are more nationally popular, because they want to chase the republican vote so bad than to concede anything to their leftist base.
It’s not rhetorical. It’s literally currently being proposed as a strategy by the “Harris went too woke” crowd.
Oh Lord… 😔
Who will they tip over the side next?
Good comment, because this was the choice some were asked to make, to degrees ranging from similar to almost literally.
As an educated citizen I openly acknowledge voter abstention or voting Republican is irresponsible in carrying out my responsibility to protect my neighbor.
However I also recognize the incredibly painful and emotionally choking situation some were put in, with no messaging of empathy from either side. I will never blame those people more than I blame the party which failed them. Distribute it 51%/49% even, I don’t care. I’m just sick of the finger pointing and shit slinging against a tiny minority who bore no impact on the election outcome in the first place.
This dialogue, which OP is capitulating to, is perfect fascist propaganda. Find an insignificantly tiny out group, which conveniently happens to be majority Arab-American, and blame them for the violence while corporate interests and ever more racist border politics go unspoken.
Well fucking said, and pretty disgusting how upvoted the post is.
Exactly. It sounds rhetorical, silly and a stupid straw man of sorts. But that’s because people don’t understand there were people who had to actually make such decisions.
I agree, I voted Kamala Harris and I do wish we could all bite that bullet but I understand that failure to do so is on the campaign who made a gamble that they could never lose voters in a lesser evil campaign. They were wrong. Instead of criticizing that campaign many here want to fight the same people they claim to want to protect. They are turning on immigrants, Muslims, and queer folk and throwing blame at the people they themselves believe they need to win.
I would say “funny strategy” but there is no strategy here. It’s online liberals who don’t understand what happened and are upset and angry. They just came out of a campaign in which they spent so much of their time justifying the lesser of two evils that they can’t even acknowledge that it didn’t work and it’s the campaigns fault.
My hope is maybe they can stop arguing with us before the concentration camps come up.
Ummm…yes! Of course I would make that compromise! If I have a choice between they both die or one dies, of course I’m taking the choice where one lives!
What wouldn’t I be willing to compromise on? Nothing. If I have a choice between bad and worse, I’m taking bad, what kind of lunatic would intentionally choose worse?
If I have a choice between bad and worse, I’m taking bad, what kind of lunatic would intentionally choose worse?
The vast majority of people would choose worse, at least in some situations.
Philosopher Bernard Williams proposed this thought experiment: suppose someone has rounded up a group of 20 innocent people, and says that he will kill all of them, unless you agree to kill one, in which case he’ll let the rest go. Act Utilitarianism would suggest that it is not only morally permissible, but morally obligatory to comply, which Williams saw as absurd. As an addendum, suppose the person then orders you to round up another 20 people so he can repeat the experiment with someone else, and if you don’t, he’ll have his men kill 40 instead. Congratulations, your “lesser-evilist” ideology now has you working for a psychopath and recruiting more people to work for him too.
Even the trolley problem, which liberals love to trot out to justify their positions, is not nearly as clear cut as they try to pretend it is. A follow up to the trolley problem is, is it ethical to kill an innocent person in order to harvest their organs in order to give five people lifesaving transplants? The overwhelming majority of people say no.
Act Utilitarianism is something that seems intuitive at first glance, but is very difficult to actually defend under scrutiny, and there are many, many alternative moral frameworks that reject its assumptions and conclusions. Liberals don’t seem to realize that this framework they treat as absolute and objective - that you would have to be a “lunatic” to reject - is actually a specific ideology, and one that’s not particularly popular or robust.
The trolley problem is clearly not clear cut at all, that’s what makes it interesting. This, of course, is lost on the Dunning-Kruger crowd.
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You seem to be missing the whole point. Maybe go calm down and stop calling people names.
Well, add another layer of complexity. The lesser of two evil guy wants to be picked. But instead of offering anything, he really wants to kill one of your parents and banks on your choice. He could of guaranteed getting picked by saying he’d kill none of your parents. But he does wanna kill one of them and gambled on you picking the lesser evil.
Didn’t happen, and you think it’s somehow the person making the impossible choice wrongly than the ones making the choices.
Thank you for your time.
However you cut it it’s one parent or two. One parent is always better than two.
There’s no need for extra complexity, both of your parents are getting killed now.
And heres the thing. In the moment, I can wish we could make that “lesser evil” choice. It sucks, but i voted kamela myself. But now that it has failed, you would rather blame the people who couldn’t bring themselves to make that difficult decision instead of the campaign for not being fucking evil, even if lesser. Like, do you get where my frustration comes from? I’m on here arguing with a liberal about how its actually the fault of random leftists and people unable to make that impossible decision when we both acknowledge the campaign actively ran on “I’m still gonna do a genocide, cant stop me” and you think thats just cool?
Once again, mid vote I can get your stance. But it didnt work! What are you doing now? What are you hoping to gain by swinging on people like me who are just BEGGING YOU to support a democratic party that’ll say “no evil” next time instead of “Wittle bit of evil”. Seriously? Are you just pissed beyond any actual care for the people who are about to be targeted by this regime? You wouldn’t rather talk with people like me on ways to resist and damage the ability for this regime to do the evil we both hate?
Once again. I can get your frustration, but from my perspective you are still trying to juice a campaign strategy that failed. It didnt work. Lesser evil DID NOT WORK. WHY DO YOU KEEP WANTING TO DEFEND SOMETHING THAT DIDNT DO THE ONE THING IT WAS SUPPOSED TO. WHY DONT YOU WANNA TRY SOMETHING NEW?!?!
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