Theres enough racist people that hes a candidate
Thats it, lets stop putting our heads in the sand with ‘economic anxiety’
its wild that a few people in this thread are acting like racism is like an unexplainable part of human nature lol. literally falling into a racist idea because you just refuse to understand dialectical and historical materialism i guess. idealist nonsense! read stalin!
I just said i don’t think capitalism caused racism and that racism was around before capitalism.
Sorry, im not into giving chuds excuses for their venomous hatred of sexual minorities or POC
idealist nonsense! read stalin!
This reads like one of Lenin’s quips
Well, lemme put it this way, beyond serving rentier western hegemonic capitalist masters of shareholders and lenders (Ego)
Trump appeals to the petit-bourgeois (read: “small” business) settler-colonial descendants of Amerikkka, that promise further radical rightist change to the nation, regardless of how dirty or feasible it is (ID)
And Kamala appeals to the labor aristocrat PMC tendencies of it, that hope to maintain the bloody imperial hegemony as is, and its image (Superego)
Both still further Amerikkka’s interest in different faces, under the same Ego…
Are you talking about like old stock american’s of british ancestry when you talk about the settler colonial stock?
My fathers family were scots irish who have been here since the late 1600s and a large number of them are very racist
That includes them, alright!
As someone who is trans and queer, a POC, and coming from an immigrant family- I have to agree with u/Z_Poster365, this post and the comments come distastefully close to spoilerism (against the most basic simple stance against literal genocide).
Trump supporters are ghouls and whether they like it or not, racist through their willingness to stand alongside and fend for racism, yes- but the nasty, honest truth is that the same goes for all of Klanmala’s supporters, with the disgusting caveat even that many more of those are not simply ignorant, but genuinely vile to their core, having seen the full extent of what they support and yet still making their peace with it.
Both sides (if the sides of 100% Hitler, orange flavor vs. 100% Hitler, coconut flavor are "separate sides) are truly and irreconcilably wretched. They might take minor detours in how they rationalize it, but at their core is imperial identity politics (that the lives of the “enlightened west” are worth infinitely more than those of the global south) and imperial anxiety (that those they would see as their slaves if not exterminated altogether are liberating themselves).
Thank you. Racism is not when white dudes with cowboy hats feel afraid of Black teens and call the cops on them. Racism isn’t even when white ladies clasp their purse and feel afraid when they see an Arab at the airport. Those individual instances of racist behavior are part of the system of racism; racism isn’t evil, it’s not Darth Vader or Voldemort, it’s a system. And, as a system, it’s modular and multivariate. It’s a complex phenomenon full of contradictions, like the liberal imperial identity politics you mention which exist in contradiction to the less hegemonic “white working class” aesthetics of the American right. But both aspects are part of the same social system. And like any social system, it exists within the broader context of our social structure, divided into its economic base and the superstructure, as part of the superstructure. And as we should all understand by now, the superstructure is shaped by the based. They are inseparable. Trying to explain racism without understanding that the system of racism operates within capitalism as one of several mechanisms that maintains the economic base is a fool’s errand.
Racism is not when white dudes with cowboy hats feel afraid of Black teens and call the cops on them.
I don’t know about you but that’s the most salient part of racism. Not sure I give a fuck about the metaphysical analysis when my literal skin color is being used to impale me with gunfire or make my conditions worse than oh, I don’t know, fucking yours or the average white dude on this here site.
Palestine and Nicaragua are literally the last thing on my mind when im living my day to day life, talking about these things while I live in despair might as well be a form of escapism
And like any social system, it exists within the broader context of our social structure, divided into its economic base and the superstructure, as part of the superstructure. And as we should all understand by now, the superstructure is shaped by the based
And the base also shapes the superstructure.
Yes, the superstructure is shaped by the base.
I dunno about that. Based on the osmosis I get from an old co-workers group chat, a dude from India is definitely voting for Trump after getting his citizenship last year. Another from Hong Kong is like 80% for Trump at this point. And that’s just what’s being discussed in the open.
I think you’re underestimating how much it is really coming down to “what is Biden (Harris) going to give me?” and that Trump is at least pretending to promise something.
Also, don’t be surprised that Trump has a solid hold on a certain bloc of non-white immigrants. The “Democrats are the party of handout for lazy people and going to bankrupt the country” and the “Republicans are the party for hardworking people” stereotypes continue to hold in the minds of many people who emigrated to the US.
I got to know many Chinese immigrants in the US when I used to live there and most first gen immigrants were solid Republican voters. They really bought into the “government spending billions on handout for lazy people is why our economy is going so badly” narrative.
I hate a lot of the immigrants the US lets in because they are all these ultra-capitalist greedy bootlickers from around the globe. the US has been doing this for the last century (since the russian revolution), and I think it is making the US an even more right wing pro-capitalist hellscape.
That is the entire point of this immigration, as Samir Amin states:
Successive waves of immigration also played a role in reinforcing American ideology. The immigrants were certainly not responsible for the poverty and oppression that lay behind their departure for the United States. But their emigration led them to give up collective struggle to change the shared conditions of their classes or groups in their native countries, and adopt instead the ideology of individual success in their adopted home.
Adopting such an ideology delayed the acquisition of class consciousness. Once it began to mature, this developing consciousness had to face a new wave of immigrants, resulting in renewed failure to achieve the requisite political consciousness. Simultaneously, this immigration encouraged the “communitarianization” of U.S. society. “Individual success” does not exclude inclusion in a community of origin, without which individual isolation might become insupportable. The reinforcement of this dimension of identity—which the U.S. system reclaims and encourages—is done to the detriment of class consciousness and the forming of citizens.
Communitarian ideologies cannot be a substitute for the absence of a socialist ideology in the working class. This is true even of the most radical of them, that of the black community.
trump is the blowback to neoliberalism
That’s the core of Trump’s movement, but the cultural and political membrane surrounding it stands in for industrial American conservatism which alot of non white nationalists buy into
The small whites are for sure afraid they will be treated economically like a minority. That is the anxiety. They don’t want to lose the benefits of their white privilege. So kidna
The small whites are for sure afraid they will be treated economically like a minority
No, they’re afraid they’ll be treated equally. Equality feels like oppression
If you actually treated them like a minority they would all sudoku in like 3 days from the shock
no, they don’t think they will be treated equally; it is an inherent part of colonialism (from which white supremacy arose) to condition a projection of a ‘reversed consequence’ if power is let go by making the colonized subject into a ‘dangerous’ and ‘unpredictable’ embodiment of ‘barbarity,’ against whom the colonizer is instead a ‘civilized’ and ‘rational’ embodiment of ‘good’ in dialectical antithesis to it. It is where the ideological dynamic of ‘civilizing the savages’ comes from in the material relation of colonialism and its white supremacist expression in history (how European colonialism unfolded and reified its relations). ie. there is an underlying understanding in the white supremacist consciousness that “they want to do to us what we did to them or worse, and will if we let them” (the implication being, we can never ‘let them,’ meaning never give up vigilance and power over them, securing the colonial relation).
It comes out very obviously from white liberals in conversations about decolonization when they are pressed that they are not to and can not insert themselves into deciding ‘how’ the colonized ‘should’ carry out decolonization. There is a deep primal fear in this projection which dialectically necessarily grows out of the material relations of colonialism and colonization; as for there to be a colonizer there must be a colonized — which inherently necessitates dehumanization and justifications for ‘why’ maintaining control and dominance over the colonized subject is “right,” “natural,” or “the only option.” Which then cyclically reinforces the material relations to the material base — land, resources, labor, means of production and subsistence and reproduction of labor. Cyclically because then every act of defiance and resistance against this colonial relationship by the colonized, in the perspective of this superstructural ethos, ‘justifies’ the claim of the ‘dangerousness’ and ‘barbarity’ of the colonized and so the colonizer’s need to ‘keep them under control’. As we saw it also with oct7 in Palestine. As we see in every uprising and riot of colonized people or major push against the structures and systems of their subjugation.
I recommend The Wretched of the Earth by Fanon for a good understanding of colonialism and decolonization and all its inter-relations.
Is there anyone here who really believes Kamala’s campaign core isn’t imperialist war and genocide and smug bourgeois paternalism?
There’s enough genocidal people that she’s a candidate
That’s it, let’s stop putting our heads in the sand with ‘harm reduction’
lol where did i say anything about that?
What a strange fella you are.
The implication of your brow beating is pretty clear. It’s to whip votes for the DNC, this shit always spikes right before elections around here
I dont give a shit about the DNC or Kammala i cant even vote im a drug felon, weirdo.
if that wasn’t your intention and you also hate Democrats then you should have no issue with my comment and just agree and laugh along. The fact you took ire reveals your motivation for posting this
What? Is that how it works? If someone makes weirdly false accusations about me, they make me more likely to respond, not less.
where’s my accusation in the original comment?
I just made a joke using the format of their OP. They took issue with that joke before I made any accusations of their intentions, confirming my suspicions
Yes, people can take implications as accusations and people absolutely do do this to “slyly” insult people they are responding to. It’s actually not very subtle at all.
I’ve seen plenty from his campaign, or the general republican campaign, that hammers on economic stuff
Whats the majority of what you hear about? An ‘invasion’ of immigrants and how they are ‘poisoning our blood’
that is economic stuff, it’s about people who are “cutting in line” for the american dream when many americans feel left behind. if those americans didn’t feel left behind (by 40 years of neoliberalism) they wouldn’t be looking for someone to blame and trumps BS wouldn’t work.
This seems a lot like youre making excuses for them to me.
Im trying to be charitable.
im not trying to word that in an assholeish way
I’ll refer you to this insightful discussion with a sociologist. https://hexbear.net/post/3698136
What’s the difference?
back off
That was his core demographic that won him the 2016 primaries. He had a bigger coalition than that for the 2016 general. But he ain’t got shit but that core now.
“Economic Anxiety” is just liberal weasel words for economic failures of capitalism, but those are real and they do cause racism. Some people are just raised racist. But the worse the economy does the more racism you well see.
economic anxiety and racism go hand in hand. blame life stresses on the other simple as. classic demagogury.
I think sometimes people are just racist dude. Economic anxiety may exacerbate latent racism, but its not always the cause.
this is idealist nonsense and is itself playing into/flirting with lending legitimacy to racist ideas.
Lol no. capitalism did not cause racism. stop giving these people excuses for being bigoted pieces of shit
It’s true. America is such a segregated society it is almost inevitable, so long as the construct of race exists. The anxiety causes even good-natured people to do awkward shit sometimes. But the elites will literally use anything they can to divide us up. Skin is one of the easiest, humans are such visual creatures and it’s the biggest organ, and we are segregated anyway. The construct of race works better than the elites could have even predicted though.
It’s true not just economics anything that impedes our ability to empathize with one another will create the possibility of this. Though I think for demogogues economic stress it’s the easiest to exploit and misdirect to protect from “levelling”. Also geographic segregation makes it much easier to “otherise” people etc etc regardless. Look at the Brits and the Irish and they are all pale af but Brits wanted the land so they created a construct to legitimize it.
what a lack of dialectical materialism does to a mothafucka.
“Latent racism” as if this shit is an inherent property of humanity and not an instilled ideology, an “original sin”. The christian moralism and idealism reeks from here.
making absolutist moralist denouncements instead of trying to see the chain of events, the cause, and to fix it
when Liberals and Idealists make racism into a “true” platonic eternal evil, all they are doing is admitting they will never fix or solve the issue and don’t know how to. They are even admitting that it’s somewhat correct or at least has a basis in reality because it’s an inherent law of the universe apparently that we can never escape. Racism was invented on a specific date, not too long ago, and it can be abolished. Anything that was created by people can be destroyed by people too.
thank you. “people are just racist” is such idealist nonsense and is itself a take playing into racist ideas. wild to see that shit on here, would think folks would know better by now.
the dangerous thing about moralism is it perpetuates itself. evil is never eradicated, it’s an eternal battle. It’s a resignation that contradictions cannot be resolved and that history is over
I’m not sure, I know a lot of enjoying life racists that love Trump. Country club going never been to a minority neighborhood but quote Tucker Carlson racist, own multiple properties and boats due to underpaying day laborers and call them wetback racist, north shore mansion Long Island Zionist that think the Dems are soft on Palestine racist.
Like economic anxiety my ass, most of the wealthy people I know love Trump and love being racist.
The ideology of every society is the ideology of the ruling class. The rich are the most racist of all. The poor and workers don’t become racist until A) They are under severe economic pressure & B) They have the ideology of the rich drilled into their brain since birth
The ultra wealthy live in comfort because their racism has succeeded. That’s the end goal of the system, and they have a vested interest to reproduce the system for the continued existence of their class.
Z_poster365:
leftist wall of text
1488_40acrecattlerancher
kill slurs lol
Don’t get me wrong, i’d happily put a bullet between the eyes of a racist if they stood in the way of the revolution. Think of all the Nazis that hardliner marxists like me have put into the ground. I’m not morally absolving them, I’m explaining the mechanism to break the cycle of their reproduction so we can put one last generation into the ground and then be done with it.
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Age of Napoleon Bonus Episode that examines the intertwined origins of capitalism and racism
I mean ive heard all these arguments before saying capitalism is the sole cause of racism, i dont agree with it.
Racism will be here regardless of whether we are in capitalist shithead land or not, i think we have an obligation to speak out against it and organize against it.
I am saying it. Look at italians. Thye were swartly PoC and in our lifetimes they were upgraded to white because we needed more numbers to opress the other minorities with. Before that it was the Irish. Looks like pretty soon Brazilians will be white too. After them probably some Cubans than eventually all Cubans. The japanese were white for a while because we needed people to opress the Chinese with. They lost it when they stoped being a useful tool.
White is not about race. It is a class under cpaitlaism. So long as there is money to be made we will always racialize new and interesting outgroups.
White is not about race. It is a class under cpaitlaism
nah it’s race. If you have a rich black in a community full of whites they’ll just kill the rich black on the day SHTF
can’t imagine being this scatterbrained
But which came first. Is he other because he is black? Or is he black because he us other. Compare a melungion person to a light skinned black person. In that situation race has almost nothing to do with race and everything to do with ses.
He’s other because he looks different, which any 3-year-old, or non-human animal, can see
Look at italians. Thye were swartly PoC and in our lifetimes they were upgraded to white because we needed more numbers to opress the other minorities with. Before that it was the Irish
you’re disproving your own point here. Irish and Italians entered the US at the same time. Irish racism died out in the early-mid 1900s, Italians faced mild racism as late as the 1990s, and still do if they’re dark enough
“Racism is economic bc we needed to water down the definition of white to ally against even darker hordes” isn’t the winning argument that you think it is
Yeah, the Irish were made cops so that put them up the class structure. Turning men at arms into full citizens was a classic move. There is no fundamental difference between them, they just found themselves in diffrent places in the super structure and were treated diffrent as material circumstances would dictate.
Yeah, the Irish were made cops so that put them up the class structure
and WHY were the Irish made cops as opposed to the Italians?
capitalism is the sole cause of racism
anyone who believes this has the equivalent of horse-blinders biologically welded into their brain
No one is saying capitalism is the sole cause of racism, that’s completely ahistorical. But what is historical fact is the capitalism greatly exacerbates existing racisms.
capitalism is the primary cause and engine of racism. Racialism was invented in the 17th century alongside the mercantile transition into capitalism. Capitalism and Racism were born together and will die together, they are twins.
This is class reductionism right here. Racism was around long before the 17th century lmfao.
No it was not, the concept of race was invented around this time. Perhaps you mean prejudice and ethnic sectarianism? That certainly existed. Race did not. Might behoove you to do some reading on this subject before pontificating with false confidence
This only makes sense if you define “racism” exclusively as “white supremacism”. But you’re not saying much at that point. You’re just saying racism as we currently experience it is a product of capitalism. Which, duh, everything is.
Racism existed before capitalism and can exist after. Examples: the Caste System, the Khmer Rouge. Shit even Christopher Columbus was about as racist as you can get and that’s right before capitalism kicks off. The Racialism you’re describing is just the ideological petina that capitalists put on their pre-existing racism.
No I define racism as prejudice based of the system of racialism, which was invented in the 17th century.
Other forms of sectarian prejudice existed beforehand. Not racism
The anglo saxons had apartheid laws against the celts in 6th century britain.
I am. Race isn’t real. It is an artificial construction we shape to whatever we please. There is no connectivity tissue to it. If capitlaism didn’t enforce it it would wither and die on the vine.
It is an artificial construction
the famous artificial construction of your skin’s albedo
The race realist has entered the chat. Get your calipers out everybody.
Yes, I am white but I am darker than several of my latinX friends. I still get white privilege they do not.
Yes race is totally artificial, and capitalism has invented an intense apparatus to justify it. But the belief in it and the economic forces that drive that belief will exist as long as there is inequality and scarcity. Communism would eliminate that but there are other systems than communism and capitalism. They just wouldn’t be all pseudo scientific about it like the capitalists would.
capitalism has invented an intense apparatus to justify it
You have the causality backwards. Capitalism doesn’t invent things to justify racism, racism is invented to justify Capitalism. Capitalism required slavery, so it required an ideology that made it OK for certain people to become slaves. The racism was post hoc justification for what Capitalism already intended to do.
Europeans didn’t go “look at these black Africans, I hate them so much I might as well enslave them” and then stumble accidentally into capitalism. They realized they required cheap start-up labor for the primitive accumulation of fixed capital and went out looking for it.
Ive seen plenty of people even prominent marxists say this, doug and ben from Zero books for example, repeat this line.
I have never heard of Doug and Ben and don’t know what they’re all on about. Class reductionists are a thing but idk if that’s what they are without reading their words.
Forget about class reductionism, how about any class analysis whatsoever? OP’s “analysis” is pure race reductionism and moralism without a single ounce of Marxist thought instilled.
Apparently using any class analysis whatsoever or referencing factual historical origins of things is “class reductionism” now?
if that’s what you got from “intertwined origins” you should really listen to it
Yeah! Economic anxiety and racism go hand in hand, except for, like, half the time but every other instance than when it doesn’t
Yes of course even for the wealthy they are going to invent whatever construct they need to justify their own position in their own head. The capital is so concentrated though so there aren’t too many of that kind.
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Fuckin awesome post. Thank you.
Narrator voice: It was not
That’s his core, yeah, the people who will vote for him no matter what. But I don’t think those people alone are enough to give him a victory. If he wins, it’s because it’s that core plus the people who feel economic pressure, which generally translates to voting for whoever isn’t currently in the White House.
Most of the Harris voters I know also talk a lot about economic anxiety. But they do the same shit…Yes Harris will be bad for the economy but Trump will be WORSE! Libs are incapable of genuine thought
Good thing i cant vote for harris because im a felon and wouldnt anyways.
I swear
had a bunch of episodes about this but I can’t find them now
