"Progressives should not make the same mistake that Ernst Thälmann made in 1932. The leader of the German Communist Party, Thälmann saw mainstream liberals as his enemies, and so the center and left never joined forces against the Nazis. Thälmann famously said that ‘some Nazi trees must not be allowed to overshadow a forest’ of social democrats, whom he sneeringly called ‘social fascists.’

After Adolf Hitler gained power in 1933, Thälmann was arrested. He was shot on Hitler’s orders in Buchenwald concentration camp in 1944."

  • Todd Bonzalez@lemm.ee
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    16
    arrow-down
    11
    ·
    edit-2
    2 months ago

    I agree entirely, in regards to politics in 1850’s Germany with its diverse multiparty political ecosystem.

    As for current American politics, where we are deeply entrenched in a societal tug-of-war in an ostensible two-party system, where third parties can swing policy in a largely undemocratic direction by spoiling the vote in close elections, I disagree completely. Third parties serve no purpose in a two-party representative democracy.

    If we can break the two party political duopoly, then I will never complain about another fringe party voter ever again. Until then, you better fucking vote for the lesser evil, because letting the greater evil win, as we learned in 2017-2020, is really fucking bad.

    If anything, letting Democrats win the next few major elections could spell doom for the Republican party as a whole, and give us a chance to introduce some actual competition to the Democratic party.

    I wish that I could snap my fingers and have it fixed today, but that’s not how societies work. Accelerationism always requires violence, and violence isn’t how you should uphold democracy, unless you are defending its pillars against a direct threat. A two-party duopoly is something we the people need to defeat.

    That means we need to abolish the electoral college, introduce universal mail-in voting, defeat all right-wing disenfranchisement efforts, and introduce ranked-choice voting to all elections. These are radical changes that will take a lot of work to accomplish, and that will face a lot of opposition.

    Under Democrat leadership, these things are possible. Under Republican leadership, we’ll be lucky if we still have elections.

    • EmpireInDecay
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      23
      arrow-down
      15
      ·
      2 months ago

      Your solution to defeating the duopoly is continuing giving them power and participating in it?

      • chakan2@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        13
        arrow-down
        6
        ·
        2 months ago

        Would you like your vote to matter after November?

        Then yes, I’m pushing the duopoly this time around.

        • Cowbee [he/him]
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          13
          arrow-down
          9
          ·
          2 months ago

          So if they can’t vote for their views now, and we keep pushing the duopoly, when do we get democracy?

          • EmpireInDecay
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            8
            arrow-down
            7
            ·
            2 months ago

            That’s the thing, they never do. They have been pushing the lesser evil splitting the vote bullshit for over 150 years. The only people that benefits is the wealthy

            • explodicle@sh.itjust.works
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              2
              arrow-down
              2
              ·
              edit-2
              2 months ago

              Were the party system changes before then more due to

              • a major party crushing the other major party, and then splitting, or

              • a minor party growing and eventually replacing one of the two major parties?

              Bonus points if anyone has a source on this.

          • Dagwood222@lemm.ee
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            5
            arrow-down
            6
            ·
            2 months ago

            When you start doing things that actually work.

            Look up the Moral Majority and Jerry Falwell. They would show up at every local GOP organizing event with enough voters to make sure their candidates for jobs like mayor, sheriff, and county clerk got the nod.

            • Cowbee [he/him]
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              10
              arrow-down
              9
              ·
              2 months ago

              Gotcha, I’ll keep organizing outside the useless electoral system.

                  • Dagwood222@lemm.ee
                    link
                    fedilink
                    arrow-up
                    3
                    arrow-down
                    5
                    ·
                    2 months ago

                    That’s a neat way to say “being too lazy to actually make a difference, but I don’t want to feel bad about it”.

                    Cryophilia said it better than I could, so I’ll repeat their comment.

                    I’ll just add that if you aren’t interested in passing laws you should vote for Harris if only to annoy the Right.

        • EmpireInDecay
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          11
          arrow-down
          9
          ·
          2 months ago

          It’s not like your vote matters now. Money has all the power in this country, voters have none. When 1 billionaire has more political influence than entire states you have no power. You’ve surrendered your power to the donor class.

          • chakan2@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            3
            arrow-down
            3
            ·
            2 months ago

            Who do you think has a better chance of fixing that? Putin’s orange Fleshlight? The chick he had dinner with? Brainworm? Some other rando that gets less than 1% of the vote?

            I hear you…it’s a problem…

            Throwing your vote away this cycle ensures that your vote will never matter again.

            • EmpireInDecay
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              8
              arrow-down
              7
              ·
              2 months ago

              The vote thrown away is the vote that’s cast out of fear. The dnc’s entire platform for the last few decades has been. We are not the other guy. You were casting a vote in opposition to the other guy, not in favor of policy or legislation, but not the other guy, that’s a protest vote

              • chakan2@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                2
                arrow-down
                2
                ·
                2 months ago

                No…I’m voting for policy this time around. If I get the state exception for state taxes I get a point and a half back.

                Trump’s tariffs should fucking terrify everyone…think shit is expensive now, wait until that goes through.

                What’s the 3rd parties offering that has a remote chance of dealing with either of those problems?

                • EmpireInDecay
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  arrow-down
                  4
                  ·
                  2 months ago

                  What policy, the one that was hastily copy/pasted from Biden’s website?

                  • chakan2@lemmy.world
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    arrow-up
                    2
                    arrow-down
                    1
                    ·
                    2 months ago

                    Throw your vote away…wipe Palestine off the map…increase prices by 20% across the board…make sure women’s healthcare is never again a choice in this nation.

                    I hope your high horse can carry you over the flaming wreck that’ll be the USA when your boy or girl doesn’t get 1% but manages to swing the vote in those battleground states.

            • EmpireInDecay
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              7
              arrow-down
              4
              ·
              2 months ago

              This is the epitome of why Democrats hate Trump. He says the quiet things out loud. He has said ‘I dont care about you. I just want your vote.’

              This article confirms this, the Princeton study from 2012 confirms this. Several sources have confirmed politicians don’t care about us, only the monied class

      • Dagwood222@lemm.ee
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        10
        arrow-down
        6
        ·
        2 months ago

        Give me a reasonable alternative and I’ll take it.

        You don’t name a candidate to vote for, just say we shouldn’t participate.

        Who do you think scares Donnie more, Harris or your non-participation?

    • Cowbee [he/him]
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      13
      arrow-down
      8
      ·
      2 months ago

      If anything, letting Democrats win the next few major elections could spell doom for the Republican party as a whole, and give us a chance to introduce some actual competition to the Democratic party.

      This will never happen. The replacement party will be fascist. The Republican Party’s fascism doesn’t exist because of “brainwashing” or “conmen,” it exists because fascism rises from decaying Capitalism. If you don’t get rid of the Capitalism, the conditions for fascism remain.

      That means we need to abolish the electoral college, introduce universal mail-in voting, defeat all right-wing disenfranchisement efforts, and introduce ranked-choice voting to all elections. These are radical changes that will take a lot of work to accomplish, and that will face a lot of opposition.

      Under Democrat leadership, these things are possible. Under Republican leadership, we’ll be lucky if we still have elections.

      The Democrats will never work against their donors. This will never happen.

      • EmpireInDecay
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        13
        arrow-down
        6
        ·
        2 months ago

        Especially when their donors are the same donors to the GOP

        • Maeve@kbin.earth
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          6
          arrow-down
          3
          ·
          2 months ago

          That part. They know where we’re going, the only difference as far as I can see is some prefer it slower, to keep from spooking the populace, and others are willing to slaughter any part of the populace that resist.

          One day, the lambs will stop screaming.