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I’m amazed he managed to roll a nat 20 on a d8, thats cheating on a whole new level
I fuckin hate this notion in modern dnd (which is a misconception in the first place) that its just “let a d20 decide: the game”. That’s not how the game has ever been played. If you wanna have goofy mad-lib games with your friends where you just roll dice and laugh that’s fine but you’ve never, in 50 years, had to roll to see if you’re able to cast Cure Wounds or Heal.
That is a mechanic in some other games where spellcasting isn’t a guaranteed thing. But not in core Dungeons and Dragons.
I wish my DM would accept this. I was born with this power but I might fail to cast it? Why am I not rolling to see if I walk properly since that was a learned ability.
Why am I not rolling to see if I walk properly since that was a learned ability.
Octodad: Pen&Paper edition?
QWOP tabletop edition
Shadowdark has d20 rolls for spellcasting and by all accounts it’s fantastic. If you succeed the roll you cast the spell and expend no resources. If you fail you can’t cast the spell for the rest of the day. I don’t believe for a second that it’s what the OP in this post was playing though.
That is a mechanic in some other games where spellcasting isn’t a guaranteed thing. But not in core Dungeons and Dragons.
Like in warhammer fantasy, where a guy i’ve played with managed to cast one spell during a fight that took 30-60 mins irl
didn’t dnd 2e have you roll a d20 if you cast while wearing armor? too low of a roll and the cast fails? No crit effects, just simple pass/fail, right?
Casting an Arcane Spell in Armor: A character who casts an arcane spell while wearing armor must usually make an arcane spell failure check. The number in the Arcane Spell Failure Chance column on Table 6–6 is the percentage chance that the spell fails and is ruined. If the spell lacks a somatic component, however, it can be cast with no chance of arcane spell failure.
https://aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=361
It was a rule in Pathfinder, so presumably it was a rule in 3e.
Pathfinder has that too, so it presumably carried through 3.5e. It’s why wizards don’t wear armor, and only applies to arcane casters, and classes that are meant to wear some armor like bards get exemptions for the tiers of armor they’re meant to wear.
I guess since in many cases you do actually need to roll a dice, like when peeforming a touch or ranged touch spell, people just assume it always happens.
And even in this case. Cure wounds is a spell like any other and it is subject to a will saving throw. So to be correct the pc that was targeted by the spell would indeed roll in order to save from the unintended heal - but thats really just assuming the spell could be used like this, which in my interpretation it cannot.
So again, even if the caster rolls no dice in this case, the target could. I think this leads to people thinking there must always be a roll.
Edit: fix paragraphs
Will isn’t an attribute/stat in dnd 5e and the only roll one would make for cure wounds is the amount of healing applied.
Thats not what I said.
Never played 5e but in 3.5e the target of the spell - not the spellcaster - can roll a dice. The target can perform a will save to reduce healing amount by half.
Alright, you cast heal wounds. Any wounds on the legs are healed. You are now aware that paralysis from birth is not a “wound”
Yeah that’s more regenerate or maybe power word heals territory.
Even with regenerate, what exactly are you regenerating? If the necessary neural pathways for the legs to work never developed in the first place, they couldn’t be “regenerated”. If this was your goal I think you might need to true polymorph a guy into “the same guy but his legs work”
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You couldn’t “restore” something to a state it’s never been in. Cutting off the legs and then casting regenerate would “regenerate” the lost pair of paralyzed legs.
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“Your nerves are forged anew, and your legs are as strong as a marathon runner’s. Unfortunately you never learned to walk, much less run. Good luck.”
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I don’t think logic applies to healing magic in DnD lol.
Is logic not the role of the DM?
“You touch a creature and stimulate its natural healing ability.”
If stem cells could solve the issue, it’s possible. Turn it into a surgery, high DC medicine check, or an insane arcana check and a DM would probably let it play.
Simulacra and Clone, or Greater Restoration should be able to achieve the desired effect, provided a competent heal check.
It’s explicitly within the capabilities of a Lesser Restoration, but also I would not allow a player to cast that spell on another player if that other player didn’t want it
Edit: also as another person said, the adult who has never used their legs before never learned how to walk, so even if they had functioning legs, it would not help
ITT- Nerds take a 4chan green text way too seriously.
The problem is that newbies see this shit and think it’s normal. One in every 20 rolls is a nat 20. It just means that what you tried went as well as it possibly could have. It doesn’t make possible anything that wasn’t already
I think a lot of us get that, we’re just enjoying the joke.
Their group should be setting realistic expectations for newcomers then and if they wanna do a throwaway fun session with relaxed rules they can another time.
And if people that don’t partake think a session is this wacky wild shit, who cares? They aren’t playing.
You might just be the target audience of the comment above.
I’m not taking the green text seriously in the comment you replied to, I’m complaining about the effect the general meme has had on the game
Memes will not ruin DnD lol.
You can explain rules to new players or even flex the rules. It’s a game to have fun, not some sacred ritual to be protected and preserved.
Being the “um actually” guy does nothing but turn people off of the DnD community, and I would argue does more damage than people making jokes and not understanding the rules.
I’ve played with people that are intimidated by the rules and scope of the game. The way I handle it is just ease into it, don’t be a stickler. The most important part is having fun!
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I play with these noobs, and explaining that a nat 20 is not an automatic success on whatever the player wants comes up every other session. It’s a problem because it both makes the game more annoying for me to play, and less enjoyable for the person who thought their plan was going to succeed. I’m not concern trolling, I’m offering personal experience to the discussion
Ah yes, the “I jump to the moon” player.
Session 3
“I wanna buy a bag of holding from this guy”
It’s gonna be 200 gp
“We only have 50 gp between us… I’m gonna roll persuasion!”
The DM ended up letting her get away with Prestidigitating some fake platinum pieces, which by all rights ought to get us arrested
Alright here’s the bag.
Let me know whenever you reach in.
prepares dice
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You are really trying to pretend that you know literally anything about me
Bottom line is, these memes misrepresent what D&D (and TTRPGs in general) is like, and that’s why I don’t like them. I have a similar problem with the super popular actual play shows. The Mercer Effect is real
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Should it not be up to the DM? Sounds like the players here had a good time. Srsly this is what keeps players from DND: people who stick way too much to the rules
Sounds like the players here had a good time.
That’s your read on the story?
“David, my character was paralyzed from birth, you can’t just—”
Oh yeah it sounds like he’s super into it
One in every 20 rolls is a nat 20
…no, no. this is not how probability works, even if it should seem to given the way we describe the odds.
On average. On average. On average!
One in every 20 rolls is a nat 20, ON AVERAGE. That’s how probability works. Are you happy now that I corrected it? Was it worth leaving the most pedantic comment on the entire internet?
The most pedantic comment on average, you mean.
On average.
yes, that’s the important part the OP left out. You stated
One in every 20 rolls is a nat 20
this is incorrect.
You’re right, it’s only roughly one in every 20 rolls. It’s only almost precisely one in every 20 rolls. It’s only a 5% chance, which some would say is literally synonymous with “one in every 20 rolls,” which isn’t strictly true, because it’s possible to have more or less than one natural 20 in any run of 20 rolls, because it’s only one in every 20 rolls on average.
I’ve been arguing about the portal paradox all day and these comments have gotten on my nerves more than anyone trying to explain to me that the cube isn’t moving
You’re right, it’s only roughly one in every 20 rolls. It’s only almost precisely one in every 20 rolls. It’s only a 5% chance, which some would say is literally synonymous with “one in every 20 rolls,” which isn’t strictly true, because it’s possible to have more or less than one natural 20 in any run of 20 rolls, because it’s only one in every 20 rolls on average.
Glad we can agree.
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Bad DM.
Nat 20 doesn’t just let you do whatever. Cure wounds could easily be interpreted as returning the body to its natural state as the soul percieves it. If wanted his legs back more than anything so much that his soul held onto it like phantom pain, then I would say maybe a Greater Restoration could if he wanted that.
But if he’d grown accoustomed to his new life and his new legs and no longer sought to “restore” anything, having made peace with his injury, then no, greater restoration would just restore him to his own healthy self image. And a spell like cure wounds would do absolute dick.
I’d love to let this play out, narrate the lack of effect of this spell, and kick this asshole from the table.
So does that not imply that…
HP Restoratives are gender affirming care?
That happens in the stormlight archive books, which handle magical healing exactly that way.
Interesting question. I suppose it would in the version I laid out. And why not. Hahahah.
Honestly could make for an extremely compelling character arc to explore, but may hit close to home for some players
My read of simple HP restoring magical healing, at least in D&D, is simply that it is equivalent to accelerated natural healing with no potential for complications. So if whatever ailment you’re trying to heal wouldn’t also be healed by any arbitrary amount of rest and recuperation then Cure Wounds won’t cut it either.
There’s a book I read that takes place in Faerun where a cleric is getting tortured by ogre clerics by having his limbs broken and then they use heal spells to heal his limbs at odd angles. After he’s freed, they break his limbs again, heal them in braces, but he had a permanent limp
DnD healing can only do so much before its just some high power reality changing magic.
Exactly. If that adventurer wanted to “cure” what he saw as a flaw, he could quest for a much more specialized magical healer or more powerful spell to enable it. I mention greater restoration, but true polymorph to his original form, or some kind of time manipulation, etc. There are options, at a high enough toer of magic, to undo injury, but that power has to have been attained.
This is why amputations aren’t cured by a cure wounds. You can’t just grow a pile of pork by hacking into a live pig and repeatedly healing it.
narrate the lack of effect of this spell, and kick this asshole from the table.
You had me in the first half. First 95%
I am unsure from what this is from, but I once read a story in which a form of healing magic exists. One requirement for it to work was that the person being healed needs to be OK with it. If someone tried to cure your paralyzed legs and you don’t want them to be “fixed” as you don’t view as an issue or being paralyzed is just part of how you are, then the magic can’t work on you.
… Ranlar slowly rises from his wheelchair before collapsing under his own weight as his atrophied legs give out. Your party must now find a way to move him away from the orcs without using his newly healed legs, perhaps on a nearby chair with wheels.
I cast heal on Ranlar’s legs
I cast heal on my muscles to make them stronger than they were before, since I guess that’s how it works now?
I do wonder about using it post-workout. Best version of juice ever?
I have wondered about using it post… Other things. Do healing spells reduce your refractory period? Could someone get Ed Greenwood to weigh in on this?
I think the refractory period is a hormone response and not tissue damage/fatigue. It could be ‘healed’ in a similar way horniness, PMS, pregnancy, tiredness (but not the need for sleep), hunger, and moods can be ‘healed’.
It could also be a peripheral autonomic feedback response, in which case it could be ‘healed’ in a similar way to suppressing automatic breathing, bowel movements, automatic reflexes, and possibly the fine tuning of balance.
Such a spell could porobably exist, alongside a suite of other weird spells that were likely developed first, like Calm Emotions or unnamed but almost guaranteed to exist contraceptive spells. Some debuff spells of a unique variety could be quite interesting too, with breathing suppression being the rare effect that would require an intelligence save.
A potion would probably be the cheaper option though; plain old erection juice should suffice.
You cast on your muscle? Guess what I cast it on
A 20 does not mean the spell achieves something out of its capabilities, what is this five year olds playing DnD?
Honestly, as a DM, when this doesn’t infringe on other player’s fun like here I don’t mind doing extraordinary stuff for the Nat 20
Taking away someone’s intentional, roleplayed disability definitely falls under “infringing on someone’s fun”, though. If the player (not just the character) is also disabled and trying to represent themselves in the game, this goes beyond infringing on fun straight into lowkey offensive. I would never let this nat 20 work. Maybe it fixes the wheelchair or something.
Main issue is the wheelchair itself. No adventurer would ever use a wheelchair, the only reason we can use wheelchairs now are uniform roads and ada mandated ramps. Magic carpets exist and are cheap in game and don’t make you a liability.
I mean, have you considered a dwarven wheelchair made from the shields of the fallen, using their frames for wheels that grant comparable protection while gaining grip compared with a wooden spoke?
Or a druidic wheelchair of entire roots that bonded to the druid when they were mortally wounded on the forest, bonding them permanently?
Or a warlock who walks with an artificial leg of miasma and lurching tentacles that his patron restored him to in exchange for his soul debt?
Literally no reason and no way a wheelchair in game is more a liability than some geriatric old fucking wozard breaking his hip or your characters having a concussion and needing an EMT.
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Though better than the alternative it would still be terrible on any uphill.
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Roots bonding to the lower body would not form a wheelchair, more like darth maul spider legs.
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That’s a leg, not a wheelchair.
In every scenario, using any magic would circumvent the disability in a way that ends up mimicking walking while not being a liability.
Yes.
That is wheelchairs and prosthetics do my friend.
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I find it odd that there is tons of room to make a wheel chair work in the game but not the spell.
It’s a shared adventure, I’d let lots of things fly for the sake of fun and interest.
If I cast “Greater Restoration” and say I’m going to cure your of your Warlock pact, and roll a nat 20, and you are vehemently against this, it’s not “for the sake of fun” if I go ahead and “cure” you of your chosen character traits and path.
I hear you, and I’m not rigid in spell use within reason, but this is well outside just RAW and more into the latter part of everyone having fun at the table. Your fun shouldn’t come at the expense of another player having to give up agency over their character, which are personal avatars people can sometimes be quite attached to.
If you’re in a table where characters are dying left and right maybe they aren’t. But even then, if they don’t want it, that’s the red line. Just like using Mind Control on a party member to do something unspeakable. RAW could they? Sure. But unless this is a game built on betrayals or where players are expecting a PvP element, absolutely not. Because the IRL consequences of this and the real anger a player at the table may feel trump mechanics.
Everything in moderation, everything on balance. Player agency is something you should try not to let other players trample on. And even as a DM, it should be subtle or not at all when you are moving the scenery to guide something. Again, subjective.
Why do people think this? Like, I’m not mad at you, just amazed at how common this belief is.
Wheelchairs were around, and in use on surfaces that were abysmal in comparison to modern ones, but they worked.
Whether or not an adventurer would use one is a different issue, but folks really don’t know shit about wheelchairs it seems.
I’m not saying it would be fun, or easy, but I’ve been out in the woods on paths barely wide enough to fit a chair, and had people, my patients, push themselves the entire way, lumps, ruts, rocks, roots and all. And rubber tires aren’t magic for that. They help, but they don’t make the impossible possible, just the edge cases easier.
Because this is a FANTASY WORLD with MAGIC and BETTER ALTERNATIVES.
Quoting you
… the only reason we can use wheelchairs now are uniform roads and ada mandated ramps.
That is not about the fantasy world, unless ada means All Drow Associated or something, though why drow would mandate ramps, I have no idea. Maybe because spiders don’t like steps?
So your fantasy world has asphalt roads and uniform sidewalks and paved connections between every village? If your 99.9% of dnd games you are playing in the mideaval era world with magic. So just use the fucking magic items.
How do you know he doesn’t put it on a floating disk?
Then it is no longer a wheelchair, it’s a magical floating chair which is acceptable.
The wheels don’t just vanish lol
I believe they were saying that this is a situation where it does infringe on other player’s fun
If I’m DM I’d say they cast the spell exceptionally well and… it does nothing. They can do something very well that doesn’t do anything special.
I have had players make persuasion checks against me before when they want to do something that’s explicitly outside the rules but I think it would be cool. Depending on how cool I think it would be, the DC can be anywhere from 10 to 20, and the player doesn’t have proficiency
That’s another good idea ! I want to create an environment that incentivizes player creativity soo this could be fun :)
nor can you make another player do something they don’t want
What gave you that idea? Games make other players do stuff they don’t want all the time.
the GM can make players do things they don’t want, if players disagree it is at best a contested check but in almost all cases the controlling player controls their own character
Yes, but in table top unless you signed up for a PvP game, other players don’t get to dictate how your character is. And even the DM shouldn’t railroad.
The rules and scenarios do that all the time lol
D&D is ultimately a set of rules to guide a group improv storytelling session. One of the first rules of improv is “yes and” so you go with it within the confines of the game rules as well as what people are comfortable with. This is where /u/starbuck@lemmy.world’s suggestion of “Ranlar slowly rises from his wheelchair before collapsing under his own weight as his atrophied legs give out. Your party must now find a way to move him away from the orcs without using his newly healed legs, perhaps on a nearby chair with wheels.” Fits so well. It "yes and"s the spell while remaining true to the other player’s wishes.
The DMs job is to maintain the fun for the players, and if one player is ruining others fun they need to be spoken with and kicked out if they aren’t able to be a team player. Personally, I treat a NAT20 (and critical failures) as an opportunity to do something comical that helps advance the story and improve the lore, because that creates the moments you tell to others when sharing fun stories about D&D
I refused the heal because I heard it causes autism.
Yes, Int is my dump stat, why do you ask?
I will never understand these people. Like, even if vaccines did cause autism… do you really find us that offensive?
Hehe, indeed. Although they moved onto “vaccines put microchips in you to let Bill Gates control you” so who knows. (Side note, autistic people are chill, significantly less likely to ruin my night with bullshit, lol)
No no no, you got it all wrong The vaccines put microchips in you so that Bill Gates can activate COVID in you. But it works only when you’re within 5G radio range
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So if I want to be a proper butthole I need to cast lesser or greater restoration?
I don’t know, but i would say you can’t restore anything since his legs never worked. This is more like a deck of many things situation
I once ran a campaign based on Fred Saberhagen’s books of swords. I’m the books there are twelve swords that would be considered greater artifacts. One of my players was playing a pacifist. He picked up the sword called Townsaver while his village was being invaded. Anyone who has read the books knows this same situation happens right at the beginning of the series. The sword takes over, because it’s power is to force anyone who holds it to protect unarmed innocents. He proceeded to slaughter the invading force. He was devastated.
Holy shit, that sparked a memory. I read some of them back in the early nineties.
It’s worth reading the whole series of you’re interested. They aren’t awesome, but they are fairly quick reads, and the way he resolves the story is interesting.
Player: “I do something to Eric’s character against his will.”
A good DM: “No, you don’t.”
End of discussion.
Eric just needed a better backstory for his wheelchair-bound character. And really in most high fantasy settings the only way it makes sense to have a permanent disability like that would be from a curse.
You’re assuming there are enough >2nd level casters around to cast Lesser Restoration (or whatever the equivalent is in your campaign). As far as I’m concerned, magic should be extraordinarily rare. Does every preacher get cleric powers? Does everyone with draconic ancestry get sorcerer powers? Can anyone with an instrument kill a commoner with an insult?
In my campaigns, very few NPCs are even 1st level in a class. Maybe one in every 20 villages has a 1st level cleric in their church. It takes a 130 IQ to even start learning to be a wizard. Basically everyone can trace some line back to a dragon in their family tree, but maybe 0.001% ever get strong enough powers to even cast a Light cantrip
In Pathfinder, magic is common enough that either your village or the next will have a healer capable of that powerful of a heal spell. The only catch is that the casting costs about a year’s worth of wages for a peasant
Where do the casting costs come from? Are they reagents for the spell?
If you’re good at something, never do it for free.
Someone that’s good at voice acting still gets paid for their time and expertise, even if no physical resources were spent doing their work
The levels in D&D represent adventuring levels, so your average person wouldn’t have any adventuring abilities unless they’ve done something to earn experience. And magic will be as rare as the deities in your setting want it to be since they can basically just give magic to anyone. Hell, some powerful beings even grant magic and powers to their subjects against their wills.
Your words are poorly chosen. This is a very low effort response.
First of all its just inaccurate. Many heros in many fantasy settings have some kind of limitation/disability
Not usually MC but sometimes even MC
First of all its just inaccurate. Many heros in many fantasy settings have some kind of limitation/disability
Name 3
You go do the work, and enjoy some books while you do it.
Go read a few ravenloft, forgotten realms, dragonlance, or other dnd series
Go read some raymond e feist riftwar/magician books.
Go read a dozen palladium Rifts worldbooks
Just read any large fantasy franchise and you find any number of disabled characters
Damn near every healing spell in a fantasy ttrp will have a ruling on not being able to heal natural conditions such as blindness or simply that it straight up wont restore lost limbs
Im sure catti bri and drizzt ran into a few pirates and sailors with missing limbs
Or are you going to tell me theres no peg legs in fantasy?
No old heroes who cant fight anymore because they lost a limb
Ita inaccurate because most fantasy worlds that ive read dont have mid to high level healers in every square km of their worlds
Trying to think of some in dragonlance. Nope. None. Unless you count one page wonders that don’t even matter.
You go do the work, and enjoy some books while you do it.
You clearly don’t understand how things work.
You made the claim. Therefore you have to provide sources to back up your claim
Only if i care to convince you, i dont
So fucking true. There are so many insufferable people on the internet that view any form of communication as a formal debate.
So you couldn’t list any off the top of your head and had to rely on a list made by someone else. You’re really just proving my point here
- I wasn’t the person you asked to name 3.
- Heaven forbid I contribute to the conversation by providing a relevant list to a discussion.
This is like an episode of House.
House: “I roll for perception”
Wilson: “You rolled a 1”
House: “It’s Lupus”
This thread has helped my understanding why new players I meet to are so intimidated by the game. It seems many people favor strict rule following over just having a good time.
This is the kind of petty squabbling that makes dnd for me 🤌
Everyone’s correctly pointing out how healing doesn’t with that way, how about changing someone’s body against their will being totally evil and not good?
It would depend on the god. A god of strength or perfection would see anything that makes you stronger as a good thing.
I have a character idea for a cleric that idolizes the god of pain.
They focus almost entirely on healing because you can’t keep suffering if you’re dead, if you’re alive you can grow stronger, and therefore, in their own twisted mind, if you’re suffering you’re growing stronger.
They don’t heal people right away unless not doing so would cause them to die and end their suffering. Instead, if the battle is over, they pull out a chart and start asking about how painful the wound is. This can be excruciating for the one who has to sit there and answer questions until they get healed.
The other portion of their build would focus on fighting the undead because they are abominations who cannot feel pain and cannot grow stronger because of it
The god goes along with it because their normal clerics may be into torture, which is great for pain, but they tend to get hunted down because of their extreme methods. This cleric causes pain indirectly by being surrounded by a bunch of murderhobos.
Fits pretty well for a grave cleric. They perform best when healing from the brink of death. Spare the dying becomes more like study the dying lol
Everyone’s correctly pointing out how healing doesn’t with that way
Keep in mind that they never specified the game system
That spell doesn’t require a d20. ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ
Going beyond the spell usecase might call for a d20 tho
