But this is just a whataboutism. I don’t care how progressive they were. What matter is them being authoritarians.
You don’t seem to care about much of anything. If progressing and improving systems isn’t enough for you because it isn’t immediately paradise for everyone and Utopia for all, then you’re deeply unserious and purely serve as a contrarion for nobody’s benefit.
The makeup of people held in the gulags. The reasons why they’re there, whether they had trials, whether they were de facto considered innocent/guilty, etc. While interesting, neither of the links you use explain it. How many of those ‘criminals’ where put there for something non-violent?
Where are you getting the idea that large percentages of people were locked up without trial? Don’t you have to provide evidence for your claims as well?
Authoritarianism is still authoritarianism. Here’s the thing, if you want to argue for socialism/communism, I’m all for it. But for the most part it is probably a terrible strategy to defend the USSR, and other countries that are portrayed as authoritarian dictatorships, because there is a great deal of truth to those portrayals from what it seems. You’re just gonna scare off anybody even slightly closed minded.
“Authoritarianism” as admitted by yourself is a buzzword descriptor for every state, and is just a vibe. You don’t care how countries compare to their peers or their previous conditions, just vibes.
Additionally, it is important to accurately depict and defend the USSR. While there were numerous issues, there were numerous resounding successes as well. Defending the real merits of AES is important, because if one is a Socialist, presumably they want Socialism!
It’s probably a far better use of everybody’s time to show that capitalism is a failure, that it’s impossible to be paid the value you make under capitalism, that capitalism is just dictatorship in the workplace, etc. Those are the seeds you plant to get people to break out of their support for capitalism. Those are the ones that grow.
If progressing and improving systems isn’t enough for you because it isn’t immediately paradise for everyone and Utopia for all
That wasn’t my point. The point is, you can’t point to the soviet gulags and say it wasn’t authoritarian, not without evidence.
Where are you getting the idea that large percentages of people were locked up without trial? Don’t you have to provide evidence for your claims as well?
You’ve made the implicit claim that those held in the gulags were held there with good, justified reasons. And then when you were asked to provide a source for it you gave me articles about the various places nazis went to after the war. Do you have evidence or not?
“Authoritarianism” as admitted by yourself is a buzzword descriptor for every state
No, it’s a scale. Most societies/countries are on it, but not all. Additionally, it is not an inherent part of a society/country. No part of that is vibes based. Subjective, partially, but that’s the nature of unquantifiable definitions whether you like it or not.
A state that controls people’s speech is more authoritarian than one that does not. A state that controls people’s movement is more authoritarian than one that does not. There are a million different ways that a state can be unquantifiably authoritarian, but it is still comparable, discussions on it can still be based on facts, and so on. No vibes are needed.
You don’t care how countries compare to their peers or their previous conditions
You can stop with the personal attacks.
What makes you think I don’t do that as well?
You seemed to have missed the "It’s probably a far better use of everybody’s time " part.
You don’t seem to care about much of anything. If progressing and improving systems isn’t enough for you because it isn’t immediately paradise for everyone and Utopia for all, then you’re deeply unserious and purely serve as a contrarion for nobody’s benefit.
Where are you getting the idea that large percentages of people were locked up without trial? Don’t you have to provide evidence for your claims as well?
“Authoritarianism” as admitted by yourself is a buzzword descriptor for every state, and is just a vibe. You don’t care how countries compare to their peers or their previous conditions, just vibes.
Additionally, it is important to accurately depict and defend the USSR. While there were numerous issues, there were numerous resounding successes as well. Defending the real merits of AES is important, because if one is a Socialist, presumably they want Socialism!
What makes you think I don’t do that as well?
You don’t need to personally attack me.
That wasn’t my point. The point is, you can’t point to the soviet gulags and say it wasn’t authoritarian, not without evidence.
You’ve made the implicit claim that those held in the gulags were held there with good, justified reasons. And then when you were asked to provide a source for it you gave me articles about the various places nazis went to after the war. Do you have evidence or not?
No, it’s a scale. Most societies/countries are on it, but not all. Additionally, it is not an inherent part of a society/country. No part of that is vibes based. Subjective, partially, but that’s the nature of unquantifiable definitions whether you like it or not.
A state that controls people’s speech is more authoritarian than one that does not. A state that controls people’s movement is more authoritarian than one that does not. There are a million different ways that a state can be unquantifiably authoritarian, but it is still comparable, discussions on it can still be based on facts, and so on. No vibes are needed.
You can stop with the personal attacks.
You seemed to have missed the "It’s probably a far better use of everybody’s time " part.