The territorial violation by China is the latest in a series of events amplifying tensions between Beijing and Japan.

A Chinese military surveillance plane breached Japanese airspace off the country’s southwestern coast on Monday, marking what Japan’s defense ministry described as the first known incursion by China’s military into its territorial airspace.

According to a ministry official, a Chinese reconnaissance aircraft briefly entered Japanese territory near Nagasaki Prefecture around 11:30 a.m. on Monday. In response, Japan’s Self-Defense Force put fighter jets on high alert and issued a warning to the Chinese aircraft.

While Chinese planes frequently appear in international airspace around Japan, this incident represents the first confirmed entry of a military aircraft into Japan’s territorial airspace.

  • magnetosphere@fedia.io
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    3 months ago

    My reckless, irresponsible “solution” would be to just shoot ’em the fuck down. It’s a good thing I’m not in charge of Japanese border security. I’d probably start World War 3.

    • NOT_RICK@lemmy.world
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      3 months ago

      Meh, Turkey shot down a Russian jet and nothing happened a handful of years back. Can you really be that mad when a fighter breaching protected airspace is shot down?

      • OpenStars@discuss.online
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        3 months ago

        It’s not about “mad”, it’s about pushing boundaries. If they decide they want to…

        • Buelldozer@lemmy.today
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          3 months ago

          it’s about pushing boundaries.

          China is going to keep pushing boundaries until they get punched in the mouth.

          • Dozzi92@lemmy.world
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            3 months ago

            They need a bigger plane that can just drop a net on the other plane and tow it in to Japan and give the pilot a stern talking to, and then they take the plane apart and send it back in a box. Dismantling the pilot optional.

      • limonfiesta@lemmy.world
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        3 months ago

        Yes, you can.

        Russia and Turkey have very different political dynamics than China and Japan.

        Also, these types of airspace incursions, followed by intercepts, are pretty standard amongst major powers.

        It doesn’t mean they’re benign, but that shooting down Chinese planes intentionally as a response, is something you do if you’re willing and ready for the escalation path to result in open conflict, not simply an escalation.

          • Lost_My_Mind@lemmy.world
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            3 months ago

            I mean, sure. When you have the world by the balls because you produce nearly 100% of all the worlds goods, what are you going to do? Say no?

            • scarabic@lemmy.world
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              3 months ago

              China’s manufacturing capability is economically important in the short term but should hardly be looked at as a stranglehold on the entire world. Different countries have previously held the crown for “manufacturer of the world’s cheap rubbish” and India and Vietnam are currently vying for their turn to wear it. China will lose their supremacy before they’re able to do anything f politically strategic with it on the global scale.

          • limonfiesta@lemmy.world
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            3 months ago

            They have been a staple of great power competition since the Cold War, as a means of political signaling, military posturing, and gathering of intelligence.

      • Jin@lemmy.world
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        3 months ago

        Turkey isn’t reliant on Russia, while Japan is very reliant on China.

        China is a baby when it comes to politics, gets mad and never apologizes over the smallest thing.

        Example when Australia said they wanted an investigation for COVID. China quickly took offense and banned coal, beef and wine imports.

        Another example when Japan released Fukushima water into Ocean (following protocol). China got mad because Japan were “polluting” the water, so they banned fish imports from Japan. Irony is that China does it way worse and unregulated.

        Just think what this airplane could start if they shoot it down.

          • Jin@lemmy.world
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            3 months ago

            Japan 🗾 is very isolated and everything is made in China. Even a lot of food imports are from China too. If you go to local supermarket in Japan, a lot of meat are labeled from China or “overseas” to hide it.

            Personally I’m been trying to avoid as much I can because China doesn’t have the best record when it comes hygiene and food safety.

            • lemmyseikai@lemmy.world
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              3 months ago

              Food makes sense.

              Manufacturing AFAIK is moving to the US since Japan can’t afford the insecurity of dealing economically with China for goods.

              • Jin@lemmy.world
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                3 months ago

                Um China has a really bad record with human rights, I could write a book 😅 but a prime example is the ugyhurs genocide that’s still going on today.

      • Vilian@lemmy.ca
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        3 months ago

        It’s Russia, they are getting invaded, and they started the invasion lmao, not sure if Chinese military is as bad

    • thefartographer@lemm.ee
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      3 months ago

      I’ve got a better solution for you: wall of chain guns firing a curtain of giant bullets straight up all the time. All approved flights will be directed through the part of the curtain that’ll be reloading in sync with their breach.

      • ProfessorScience@lemmy.world
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        3 months ago

        Is this the Simpsons approach? “I’m just going to fire my chain guns like this, and if you get shot down it’s your own fault!”

      • Gestrid@lemmy.ca
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        Unfortunately, bullets fired straight up need to… come down. And the wind means it won’t always land in the same spot.

        I still remember some idiot fired a pistol or something straight up at a local fireworks show a few years ago. A little boy died. It was really sad. I don’t think they ever found the guy who did it, either.

        … I just googled it. That was ten years ago. Dang…

        • Dutczar@sopuli.xyz
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          3 months ago

          I was going to ask how a pebble can kill with just terminal velocity, but it IS a rather pointy, metal and aerodynamic pebble.

    • tiredofsametab@fedia.io
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      3 months ago

      That ought to be fun with all the border disputes. Some islands are claimed by 4 (well, 5) nations:

      • Japan
      • South Korea
      • North Korea (because they claim the south and all their claims)
      • Taiwan
      • China
    • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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      My reckless, irresponsible “solution” would be to just shoot ’em the fuck down.

      Reconnaissance aircraft are notoriously difficult to hit, due to their high altitude and high speed.

      Firing a bunch of ordinance into the sky would just mean raining it back down on your own population.

      • TranscendentalEmpire@lemm.ee
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        3 months ago

        Reconnaissance aircraft are notoriously difficult to hit, due to their high altitude and high speed.

        I mean, maybe in the 80’s? The technological advancements of SAM have basically made speed and altitude mean next to nothing. Now most things depend on being hard to pick up on radar, or like the plane in the article, are just large planes filled with electronic warfare equipment.

        Firing a bunch of ordinance into the sky would just mean raining it back down on your own population.

        This would have been over the Pacific…

        • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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          The technological advancements of SAM have basically made speed and altitude mean next to nothing.

          Show me the American-made hypersonic air defense missile.

          • cygnus@lemmy.ca
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            Hypersonic AD is the dumbest thing ever. The most important things in AD are maneuverability and accuracy, and going supersonic tremendously impedes both, unless “missing the incoming weapon as quickly as possible” is your main objective.

              • NOT_RICK@lemmy.world
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                Doubt all you want, but you don’t have to meet a hypersonic missile where it is, only where it will be. They aren’t very maneuverable at their maximum velocities which means it’s possible to shoot them down with a slower intercept missile provided the battery is in a favorable location to make an intercept in time.

                • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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                  you don’t have to meet a hypersonic missile where it is, only where it will be

                  Just fire the bullet to hit the other bullet, sure. Very easy and we do it successfully all the time.

                  it’s possible to shoot them down with a slower intercept missile

                  Theoretically.

                  • cygnus@lemmy.ca
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                    3 months ago

                    This kind of pro-Russian cope was much more justifiable 2 and a half years ago. Now that reality has unveiled the decrepit, incompetent reality that lies beneath the propaganda, it’s just sad. I hope this cheerleading is just a halfhearted effort on your part (or that you’re doing it for a few rubles per post), otherwise this is pathetic.

                  • NOT_RICK@lemmy.world
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                    3 months ago

                    You can watch this happen all the time in practice with slower missiles with the iron dome. The math is the same.

                  • EldritchFeminity@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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                    3 months ago

                    Tell me you don’t know what you’re talking about without telling me.

                    You don’t need to hit the bullet with a bullet. You just hit it with a shotgun blast or grenade, either destroying it outright or blowing it off course enough that it loses its energy and becomes ineffective. We literally do this all the time on tanks and humvees. It’s called a hardkill APS. The Russians had one working in the 70s. Modern ones are capable of detecting incoming tank rounds moving between 700-1700m/s, identifying which will hit the vehicle, and blowing them out of the air once they reach 10-15 meters away. All in a span of nanoseconds. It’s standard equipment on Israel’s MBT, and Germany, the US, and the UK have all field tested various systems and are considering making hardkill systems standard for the next generation of tanks and IFVs. Multiple companies across multiple countries make them for upgrade kits. Germany already produces vehicles with standard hardkill APS for their export market.

                    This isn’t crazy sci-fi technology. It’s just rocket science.

              • TranscendentalEmpire@lemm.ee
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                I mean there’s material evidence out there that pretty well proves it, and Russia has ceased to claim that they’re fake reports.

                If the kinzhal missiles were actually “hypersonic missiles” that could maneuver at speed, then yeah they’d be hard to intercept. However, the kinzhal are actually just missiles with a ramjet, meaning they hold a fairly normal flight trajectory and can be targeted by systems like the patriot.

                Shooting a bullet with another bullet is basically what all anti air systems do, the only thing that changes is the scaling in the math.

                • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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                  Russia has ceased to claim that they’re fake reports

                  If I had a dollar for every time some hack talk radio announcer claimed “They’re not even denying it anymore, folks!”

                  Shooting a bullet with another bullet is basically what all anti air systems do

                  The Iron Dome is regularly penetrated by bottle rockets and radio shack drones. This was supposed to be the top of the line in anti-air defense. But sure, Boeing is sitting on something that’s way better.

                  • TranscendentalEmpire@lemm.ee
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                    “They’re not even denying it anymore, folks!”

                    Lol, k. Then please offer any evidence that the evidence and reporting are fake?

                    The Iron Dome is regularly penetrated by bottle rockets and radio shack drones.

                    It’s almost like air defense weapons all have a margin for error… Kinda like how we’ve regularly seen s300 and s400 systems get taken out by himars, a weapon platform from the 80’s.

                    But sure, Boeing is sitting on something that’s way better.

                    Lol, not sure who you’re arguing with. I haven’t mentioned the iron dome or Boeing… Do you exclusively argue via a strawman ?

          • TranscendentalEmpire@lemm.ee
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            3 months ago

            Show me the American-made hypersonic air defense missile

            Lol, what does that have to do with reconnaissance airplanes?

            My whole argument is that planes can no longer out run/maneuver surface to air missiles. What does that have to do with hypersonic missiles?

      • mlfh
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        3 months ago

        The Y9 in question here though is slow, fat, and low - max speed of 360kn and a service ceiling of 10,000m. It’s a cargo plane with EW stuff on it.

        • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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          Then it seems like there’s a leap of logic between “cargo plane” and “reconnaissance aircraft”. Very possible it was just an inexperienced/behind schedule pilot cutting corners on the route.

          Seems like a dick move to kill an entire plane full of people because someone decided to short-cut through your airspace.

          • NOT_RICK@lemmy.world
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            3 months ago

            Very possible it was just an inexperienced/behind schedule pilot cutting corners on the route.

            In a vacuum, maybe. In the context of how China has been acting towards nearly all of their neighbors recently, not likely. This reeks of wolf warrior diplomacy.

            • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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              In the context of how China has been acting towards nearly all of their neighbors

              The Western reporting coverage of Chinese military operations is slanted to paint China as an aggressor, in the same way Western reporting of Iraq in the early 2000s was slanted to paint Iraqis as terrorists.

              You don’t read about American military aircraft invading Japanese airspace because Japan is occupied territory. You don’t read about Taiwanese aircraft invading Chinese airspace, because there’s no defined territorial line between them on account of Taiwan being contested territory.

              This reeks of wolf warrior diplomacy.

              China sending a single Rambo-esque supersoldier in to liberate native peoples from an evil mercenary army?

              • cm0002@lemmy.world
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                The Western reporting coverage of Chinese military operations is slanted to paint China as an aggressor

                China is literally aggressive in both active and passive ways, maybe some news outlets are exaggerating a little for clicks, but it’s not by much

                You don’t read about American military aircraft invading Japanese airspace because Japan is occupied territory.

                Japan isn’t “occupied territory” they are a US ally who allows us to have a base there for rapid response and protection.

                You don’t read about Taiwanese aircraft invading Chinese airspace, because there’s no defined territorial line between them on account of Taiwan being contested territory.

                Lol, nah, Taiwan is a country the only one contesting it is China in the same way that Russia is “contesting” that Ukraine is their territory.

                This reeks of wolf warrior diplomacy.

                China sending a single Rambo-esque supersoldier in to liberate native peoples from an evil mercenary army?

                1. It’s called strategic boundary pushing China has been known to do such things with their other neighbors

                2. You reek of a China apologist

                • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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                  China is literally aggressive in both active and passive ways

                  Are we doing the “Chinese Weather Balloon” hysteria again?

                  Japan isn’t “occupied territory” they are a US ally

                  Starting in which year?

                  Taiwan is a country the only one contesting it is China

                  Where does Taiwanese airspace end and Chinese airspace begin? Would it surprise you to discover that Taiwan claims airspace over the south end of China?

                  I know folks on here love making the “East Taiwan” joke, but are you seriously going to argue that Xiamen and Fuzhou are also part of Taiwan?

                  It’s called strategic boundary pushing

                  • assassin_aragorn@lemmy.world
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                    Are we doing the “Chinese Weather Balloon” hysteria again?

                    If the US sent a bunch of weather balloons into Chinese airspace without any warning and they approached government and military sites, would you say the same thing?

                    Without explicit permission from the government it is a breach of sovereignty. The US had the right to annihilate all of those balloons the instant they passed into US airspace – just like China has the right to destroy the hypothetical US balloons as soon as they pass into Chinese airspace.

                    For how often China beats the drum about sovereignty, they should know this.

                  • NOT_RICK@lemmy.world
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                    Why does this picture place a US military base in Hong Kong?

                    Edit: also, identification zone =/= claimed airspace

                  • cm0002@lemmy.world
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                    Are we doing the “Chinese Weather Balloon” hysteria again?

                    Ah yea, when people are concerned when a near-hostile country sends over unknown aircraft unannounced it’s just “hysteria”. Not like those weather balloons are perfectly capable of carrying bombs or biowarfare contagions or anything…

                    Starting in which year?

                    April 28, 1952 when the San Francisco Peace Treaty that was signed on September 8, 1951 went into effect.

                    Here’s a wikipedia article all about US-Japan relations since you appear to have flunked highschool history

              • cygnus@lemmy.ca
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                You don’t read about American military aircraft invading Japanese airspace because Japan is occupied territory.

                Least delusional tankie

              • NOT_RICK@lemmy.world
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                China’s actions paint them as an aggressor.

                You’re right that you don’t read about the US military invading Japanese territory as they are invited by the Japanese government. Countries are free to repeal that invitation just like Niger.

                And no, I’m not referencing a movie.

              • scarabic@lemmy.world
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                Dude what? China’s near-daily incursions over Taiwan have escalated and escalated to an objectively ridiculous level. Nobody “painting” shit.

          • ForgotAboutDre@lemmy.world
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            Not a mistake anyone would make accidentally. They wouldn’t be allowed to fly near hostile territory without being well informed of the risks and consequences. This was a planned and deliberate action, or Chinas airforce is incompetent and can’t be trusted.

            Both are dangerous and shouldn’t be tolerated in your territory.

            • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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              Not a mistake anyone would make accidentally.

              It’s a routine mistake that happens regularly, particularly when there is a large amount of traffic and a crop of younger personal.

              Both are dangerous and shouldn’t be tolerated in your territory.

              We’ve flipped from “China is being too hostile” to “The US isn’t being hostile enough”.

              But it turns out they’re two sides of the same coin. Americans simply can’t get enough war.

                • ℍ𝕂-𝟞𝟝@sopuli.xyz
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                  3 months ago

                  Don’t you know that all the bad that’s happening in the world, and I mean all of it, not some of it, not a lot of it, but ALL of it is the sole responsibility of the Great Satan?

                  And that all bad things are either done by the US, done by a US ally - forced to by the US as all US allies are occupied territories and have no agency - or exists solely in US propaganda, as countries free of US influence can never do bad?

              • ℍ𝕂-𝟞𝟝@sopuli.xyz
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                It’s a routine mistake that happens regularly

                Lol no, shitty private student pilots with tens of hours of experience don’t break airspace, and I’m not talking about airspace boundaries between states, but about random ones within countries that you can request and get in a week and like 100 EUR.

                Every single flight starts with a briefing on what airspaces you need to avoid, and what measures you will take to avoid them. At least if Chinese jet pilots have half the discipline of a Romanian crop duster.

          • limonfiesta@lemmy.world
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            Possible, but these are also the type of aircraft you would expect to see in mass during any naval conflict or blockading action against China. I believe the PLAAF/PLAN are working on their version of Rapid Dragon.

            Relatively slow, but plentiful, cargo planes, would be a pretty obvious choice for launching a saturation attack against USN or Japanese forces operating outside the range of their land based missiles. Again, assuming they develop a similar system to Rapid Dragon.

      • limonfiesta@lemmy.world
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        This isn’t reconnaissance, it’s standard airspace incursion and intercept.

        Everyone here seems to be a really hawkish as of late, or possibly just having a very poor understanding of international relations.

      • Buelldozer@lemmy.today
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        Reconnaissance aircraft are notoriously difficult to hit

        With exceptions for the United State’s top shelf stealth planes the Japanese are quite capable of shooting down anything flying in earths atmosphere. In the event that Japanese can’t do it the United States Aircraft Carrier Group assigned to Japan absolutely can.

        • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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          the Japanese are quite capable of shooting down anything flying in earths atmosphere

          Sure. Just put in a call to the Americans to do it for them.

          Still not clear why anyone is shooting down Chinese cargo planes.

          • Buelldozer@lemmy.today
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            Just put in a call to the Americans to do it for them.

            Japan has its own domestically developed Surface to Air missile system.

            Still not clear why anyone is shooting down Chinese cargo planes.

            The Y-9 has several variants, some of which are ELINT and AWACS. I’d trust the Japanese to know which are which, they see them often enough on their radar screens.

            • ℍ𝕂-𝟞𝟝@sopuli.xyz
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              That said, it would be monumentally stupid to expose an AWACS plane like that. Those things don’t grow on trees, even in China.