As Vice President Kamala Harris received the presidential nomination at the 2024 Democratic National Convention (DNC), thousands of people marched near the convention demanding an end to U.S. arms shipments to Israel and the war on Gaza. The protesters, led by Palestinian and Jewish activists, represented a diverse coalition including anti-war veterans, climate justice activists, and labor organizers. Despite efforts by Democrats to keep the Palestine issue sidelined, the marchers made their voices heard, declaring Harris and President Joe Biden complicit in the genocide in Gaza. The protesters came from communities and movements that are often considered part of the Democratic coalition, warning that their votes could not be taken for granted unless the party takes concrete action to end the occupation and devastation in Palestine. Organizers estimate around 30,000 people demonstrated in Chicago over the course of the week, making Palestine impossible to ignore during the convention. The activists drew connections between the struggle for Palestinian liberation and the fight against racist violence and state repression in the U.S., challenging the Democratic Party’s complicity in both. The protests encountered a heavy police presence, with hundreds of riot police surrounding the march at all times. Despite the tension, the demonstration remained largely peaceful as the protesters demanded justice for Palestine. As Kamala Harris prepared to take the stage, the marchers continued their chants and songs, determined to keep the spotlight on the ongoing catastrophe in Gaza and the Democratic Party’s failure to address it.
These protests make little sense to me. I fully support the goals of the protesters. I am opposed to Israel’s actions in Gaza that are clearly aimed at a Palestinian genocide. However, I don’t see how these protests are supposed to help achieve the goal of ending the violence and suffering of the Palestinian people. In fact, if they do anything at all, they will only help Trump get elected.
These protesters should be going after every member of congress that has supported the continued shipment of weapons to Israel, republican and democrat alike, but where have they been? They should have been out supporting democrats like Jamaal Bowman who lost his primary to a moderate, pro-Israel democrat because of AIPAC. AIPAC who has spent more than $15 million dollars this season to try and unseat progressive democrats who have supported their cause. These protesters should have been out protesting AIPAC but haven’t heard a peep from them.
Now, here they are harassing the only presidential candidate on the ballot that might possibly support them if she wins, but who cannot say that now because if she does, AIPAC will drop $10s of millions of dollars to oppose her and potentially cost her the election. And that is the only thing these protests can accomplish. If protesters succeed in turning voters against Harris, where are those votes going to go? Either to a man who has stated that he fully supports Israel’s actions and that he just wants them to hurry up and get it done, or to a third party candidate who cannot possibly win but could siphon enough votes from Harris so that Trump could win anyway.
I can’t help but think that these well meaning protesters are being manipulated by the powers that be to undermine their own goals. Stop attacking democrats in general and start supporting progressives who support your cause.
Absolutely. I 100% agree with their goals. But it’s like they couldn’t be making worse decisions. Whoever is setting their agenda. It’s like they’re focusing on sewing chaos and discontent. And not actually getting what they say they want.
I believe the protesters are sincere. But screaming at presidential candidates was never a good idea. Harris or trump will 100% be the winners. Trump will absolutely be worse. So any sane uncommitted protestor can’t actually be uncommitted. And those that are truly uncommitted aren’t really reachable. It’s not a position of strength to negotiate from.
Pro Palestinian voters would have had more success supporting senate and house candidates that support their goals. We actually lost two by slim margins. What’s the logic of focusing on nationwide elections that are the most expensive and hardest to influence. As opposed to simple Statewide or District elections. Which are much cheaper, and have a much smaller voter base to influence. It’s the house after all that passes and funds the aid they wish to stop. Nothing about this is logical. Well unless the goal really is to so chaos and Division among the opponents of Republicans.
My question to the people withholding their vote because of Gaza is: what is your plan to support the Palestinian people when Trump gets in? How will you be supporting them when Trump starts calling for nukes? What will you be doing when Trump decides to use the US military to suppress protests?
Some of us aren’t “witholding” our vote at all.
I’m voting third party. Because I believe in the party I’m voting for.
Depending on which state you live in, a 3rd party vote is equivalent to a vote for Trump when everything is said and done.
Yeah. Unfortunately, people who love genocide want the guy who bombed the fuck out of Yemen to take over next year. It’s tough to read those guys urging others to take the same position and pretending it is normal.
a 3rd party vote is equivalent to a vote for Trump
A third-party vote is a vote for the candidate I believe in, not an automatic vote for Trump or anyone else.
My voting reflects my values, and I’m not driven by fear of an outcome.
I’ll stand proud that I didn’t vote for the people who were already complicit in genocide
Fat load of good that’ll do for the remaining Palestinians after Trump helps Netenyahu finish the job. Why would you be proud of such a monstrous thing?
Yes, I’m “monstrous”, but not the Democrats who have happily supplied Israel with weapons to commit their genocide.
Your moral compass is broken.
Never said they weren’t, but you’re helping the even more monstrous Republicans nuke Palestine. Your moral compass is missing.
Who is going to nuke Palestine? That’s pure speculation.
Meanwhile, the current administration is ACTUALLY actively helping Israel starve, maim, and kill children
Well said!
I said roughly the same thing, while pointing out that the OP has pushed anti voting agenda in the past and got my comment removed (I did use the word idiot).
The mods are not allowing discourse here.Meh, it’s rule three. You can say that OP’s ideas are idiotic, but you can’t say OP is an idiot. They are allowing discourse but not ad hominem attacks. It’s really a good thing for the level of discourse in a sub.
Fair enough. I didn’t call the OP an idiot, but suggested that if they believe not voting will help the Palestinians they were an idiot. But I’ll refrain in the future.
You also accused OP of being a troll. Which is also not allowed.
Just because someone doesn’t agree with you, even if they have a history of that, doesn’t make them a troll.
It means they have different opinions than you. And that’s ok. You don’t have to get personal and accuse people of stuff though.
My comment wasn’t based on our differing opinions, but rather the OP’s post/comment history. However name calling isn’t cool and as I said in a reply a few hours back, I’ll refrain from that in the future.
I respect you for giving me this update, thank you!
I get called names on here daily, and people look up my post/comment history as well, so I know what it’s like to be on the receiving end. Many times, it really is just a person with different opinions and viewpoints instead of a troll.
We’re all gonna make it, friend.
Appreciate it. I got called out for being disrespectful. I was and I will improve. That’s my goal as a human.
We can see your comment/post history. It is clear that you are either a Russian/Chinese/North Korean/MAGA troll attempting election interference or an idiot who thinks not voting is the solution to all of America’s problems. The argument that not voting will somehow help the Palestinians is mind numbing at best and horrifying at worst. Trump will green light the total destruction on Gaza. I also failed to see anything here about Trump’s phone call preventing a ceasefire. He will pull funding from Ukraine, who also needs help in their struggle against genocide as well. Is it worth the paycheck to spread this bullshit? Or are you really that ignorant? by
@UnpopularCrow
you called me a Russian/Chinese/North Korean/MAGA troll
you labeled me just like cops like to do without having any facts that was why you were banned
you are the one playing out the narrative the elites want the one that divides citizens but removed and lying about your actions when you are called out just like both parties do especially Trump
People are wired to look for patterns in randomness and meaning in irrationality. Something considering the irrationality of your post at the very very very very bottom of all the other posts. Leaves you significantly unqualified to really complain about this.
That said I believe that you are genuine. For all the good that means. In this day and age of generative ai. If paid opposition was ever really that widespread. It isn’t today. And while you aren’t a magat either. You’d never acknowledge just how much like them you were behaving. I genuinely believe that you’re probably a decent person as are most magats. I just wish I could believe that either group might wake up and understand how counterproductive their behavior is. Often hurting the very thing they advocate for. And start to question who that sort of behavior actually helps. Because it isn’t either one of the issues either group obsesses over.
Great post and you are 100 percent correct!
The mods are not allowing discourse here.
Check the modlog for what pro-genocide centrists (there will never be another kind of centrist) consider “discourse.”
Agreed. I was in clear violation of Rule 3. The mods did the right thing as I deserved the delete.
Anyone who checks the modlog can see that you didn’t just call them an idiot.
got my comment removed (I did use the word idiot). The mods are not allowing discourse here.
They ARE allowing discourse tho. It’s just that they are NOT allowing insults.
Do you really have to insult someone when you’re advocating your point?
You can have your opinion, post it and not use the word “idiot” or result to namecalling.
The better alternative is to abandon the duopoly completely
The better alternative is to abandon the duopoly completely
Third party is the way to go! We have other choices, friends!
After listening to her Nuremberg rally level acceptance speech the other night, I can’t see how anyone in good conscious could cast a vote for that. They’re willing to embrace full fledged right wing authoritarianism, nationalism, imperialism, well funded police state, as long as its team blue doing it.
If someone were to read a transcript of her speech and was asked if there was Trump speaking, or if it was Harris speaking, I would stand to guess that a majority of people would default to Trump.
That’s a terrible comparison because Trump is so incoherent and long-winded. But, you’re asking random Americans, who maybe think he’s charismatic. Personally I’m voting against trunk and for Harris. The consequences will be dire if that guy wins.
Yep, between some of her speeches and the replies I get here on Lemmy, I’m amazed at how Democrats often believe they are so much better than Republicans—even though they engage in the exact same types of behavior!
They will refuse to acknowledge it, but they are just as big a victim of US propaganda as Republicans.
What people fail to understand about this situation is that the entire situation leaves everybody involved with what are essentially binary choices where everybody loses no matter which one you pick anyway.
Fact: Hamas launched an unprovoked attack on Israel, killing over 1000 people and holding over 200 hostage, some of which are still in captivity to this day.
Fact: Israel had every right to respond militarily and do everything in their power to rescue the hostages.
Fact: Israel’s response has gone well above and beyond what is proportional and necessary, and instead has focused on bombings of civilian infrastructure with little knowledge of or regard for the hostages they’re stupposed to be trying to rescue, instead focusing on a “Kill 'em all, let God sort 'em out.” approach that quickly spiraled into an all out genocide that even the israelis themselves barely bother trying to hide any more.
For simplicity’s sake, and because Harris is now the nominee and Biden has dropped out, any time I refer to “Harris”, assume I’m talking about the Biden/Harris administration in general.
Harris has two options here. Support Israel, or support the people of Gaza. Whichever one she chooses, she’s going to piss the other side off. So far, the administration has tried their best to hide behind the existing political alliance between the US and Israel while sidestepping questions about the war in Gaza. This has led to where we are now, with calling Biden “Genocide Joe”, mass protests on college campuses, and a significant amount of political fallout at home. But what would have happened if Harris were to pivot and support the Palestinians instead?
There are just shy of 175,000 people of Palestinian descent living in the US. There’s 7.5 million Jews. The fact remains, whatever your personal opinion of the conflict is, there are many, many, many more people in this country who support Israel, and they are significantly more politically active, politically entrenched, and well funded. That’s just reality. Any attempt at pivoting would be portrayed by the Jewish population as a betrayal of Jews and an abandonment of Israel.
The college protests we’ve already been seeing would look like weekend picnics compared to what would happen if we stopped supporting Israel. AIPAC just got finished spending silly amounts of money to have 3/4 of “the squad” primaried for supporting Gaza. I’m not saying they’d go all Trumpy, but they absolutely would be pouring tens of millions into getting their population to vote for a no-hoper like Jill Stein which would have the side effect of Trump getting back into office through the back door.
This is Harris’ option now. Stick her fingers in her ears and scream LALALALALALALA in public over the Gaza conflict as it stands now while quietly working behind the scenes to help find a path to a ceasefire, or she could pivot on the issue and continue supporting the people of Gaza during her concession speech in November once support from the Jewish population evaporates overnight. Or having to sit and watch as President Trump essentially nuke-and-paves the entire place and turns it into the Trump Gaza Casino.
This is what people don’t get. There is no good option here. Full Stop. Whichever side she chooses, she’s going to piss the other side off. And any attempt at just taking a neutral stance would just end up pissing both sides off. Attempting to have “Genocide Joe” cancelled would just lead to the return to power of someone campaigning on “I’ll Genocide harder!”.
I know it sucks, and I know the hostages shouldn’t have to wait that long and all that. I get it. But the best (read: least shitty) option is really to wait until after the election. Get Harris into office, then pressure her into supporting whichever side you’re on in the conflict under threat of being primaried by a Democrat challenger in 2028. But these kind of “messages” that they’re not going to support Harris will only lead to the rise to power of a man who will gladly thank them by offering them a 5% discount on a VIP package at his new middle eastern casino.
I fully support Palestine. What Israel is doing is the textbook definition of a genocide. And I wish I could wake up one morning and hear the Harris administration is pulling all support from Israel and stands with Palestine. But I’m also aware of the reality of the world we live in at both a national and geopolitical level, and can acknowledge that this is the least bad option the administration can take right now, and that the “Genocide Joe” protests and the demands those protesters are making are a clear example of cutting off your own nose to spite your face, and a clear misunderstanding of what would happen if they actually got what they’re advocating for.
I promise you, with every fiber of my being and every breath in my lungs, if you are unwilling to support Harris or are planning to just stay home in protest in November, please reconsider. What you are advocating for will lead to the return to power of someone who absolutely will make the entire situation exponentially worse. Pressuring a future Harris administration with a primary challenge in 2028 is going to get you a LOT further in the long run vs. advocating for something that can only lead to the return of Trump. It is the textbook definition of a pyrrhic victory: You will lose far more than you will gain even if you “win”, and that “victory” you’d be celebrating today would be guaranteed to cost you the entire war.
There are people who, for various reasons (some well-meaning, some nefarious), put the plight of Palestinians above all other concerns, and decry anyone who doesn’t do the same. And they think the solution is to hold the rest of the left hostage by letting Trump win if they don’t get their way (though to be fair, I think most of them live in solid blue states where they can do what they want without actually hurting the election, and I don’t see any reason why they shouldn’t do so).
But people will make choices based on their own needs. How many queer folks are going to choose to allow Trump to win for the sake of Palestinians? Some, I’ve no doubt, but enough in swing states to change the outcome? Seems doubtful.
Israel is the most complicated thing in geopolitics, perhaps ever. It’ll never be solved in a way that leaves anyone hands clean. I support the right to protest and solicit money to help civilians in need and get the message out and to lobby politicians. I think anyone in a swing state who lets this dictate their vote is shooting themselves in the foot for no possible gain. I guess it’s their vote, but it’s just as frustrating watching them as watching poor Republicans vote against their own interests every election.
(though to be fair, I think most of them live in solid blue states where they can do what they want without actually hurting the election, and I don’t see any reason why they shouldn’t do so).
I mildly disagree with this only in the sense that there is a time and place for everything. I completely agree that they should make their voices heard if the administration is doing things they don’t agree with. But for those who want to ensure that their protests don’t do more harm than good, wait until after the election. Heck, start putting the pressure on the day after she’s elected, while she’s still making front page news on the daily. Make sure Harris understands “Hey, we got you here, and now this is what we expect of you, or we’re going to support a primary challenger for you in 2028, and we’re going to make your life difficult the entire time in between.”
And I agree with your point about dems in solid blue states protesting without really hurting Harris’ chances. It’s when they’re encouraging those in swing states that actually do matter that it starts getting problematic. Sitting home in protest is one thing if you’re in CA, MA, or NY. But doing so in Pennsylvania or Georgia is essentially a vote for Trump.
What pressure is even possible after the election? There is only one legal way to put pressure on a politician, and that is with your vote. If you vote for them despite everything, simply because they’re the lesser evil, how do you expect to put pressure on them after? They’ll do what they always do, which is whatever the owner class tells them to do, up until a few months before the next election. Then it’s not about what they have or have not done in the past four years, it’s about defeating the Other Guy. Again.
For the record, I agree with you. There’s no good choice here. And I’ll be voting for Harris come November, though I don’t see it as a vote for Harris particularly, just a vote for the Democratic Party, to reward them for actually listening to
the peopletheir primary donors and getting Biden to step down.The community has four years to put pressure on Harris right from day one.
AIPAC, for example, could issue a statement that they are looking forward to supporting “any candidate we feel most meets the needs of the Jewish Community in 2028”. Especially after seeing them almost singlehandedly dismantle the squad, their threat of backing another candidate in the Democrat primaries becomes very, very real. And they have four years to hang that around her neck.
And then when 2026 comes along, they can reinforce it by again putting their money into primarying any candidates in the mid-term races not meeting their goals. Harris is no stupid woman. She’d get the message. Especially if the size of the Jewish voting population would be enough to cost her the primaries, or re-election in the general two years later.
(Now, for the record, I am no fan of this kind of bullshit money being allowed in politics at all. But I’m also aware of the reality of the world we live in, and in that reality, AIPAC absolutely can and will do this if given the opportunity. I do not agree with this, but am merely showing an example of how Harris can be put under very real pressure right from day one, from a lobbying group who very well could cost her her political future in a way that doesn’t also hand the White House right back to Trump.)
The community has four years to put pressure on Harris right from day one.
You can’t try and pressure the Democrats after the election, don’t you know that defeating the Republicans in 2028 is more important? /s
Very well written.
I think what has a lot of people angry isn’t just the genocide though. It’s how the US can’t seem to get a handle on Israel. They exist and continue to exist because of the US. Yet they act like the spoiled child who knows they’ll never get in trouble no matter what they do. People want to see their leader actually get a handle on things there.
It’s how the US can’t seem to get a handle on Israel.
That’s because Netanyahu has a handle on the US.
Through AIPAC, yes. It just goes to show how susceptible to lobbying the US. This embarrasses them on the world stage in turn. As they’re seen as not being able to keep their attack dog in check.
They seem to have brought us to heel pretty effectively.
not sure you fully understand the whole history and entirety of this situation
This is the state of lemmy’s political threads.
A long nuanced answer explaining historical context and the complexity of the situation.
While you and other commenter give petulant 1 sentence responses like “hur dur they don’t know shit about fuck”. Im surprised you didn’t call him blue maga.
Not once have I ever heard from any account spouting nonsense like that who they intend to vote for especially at any other level of gov who would accomplish their goals and how.not once do I hear about a way forward from this weird ass shill accounts constantly shitting on the left instead of actually describing the concrete steps to achieve your goals that others could take. You know beyond shitting on liberals.
Maybe it’s a sign of moderation that these threads are nothing but accounts like yours desperately shutting down conversation and the possibility of good political discussion. It’s quite impressive how frankly you guys keep shutting on discourse every where to the point of any serious discussion of policy is drowned out by accounts like yours and comments like this.
I fully expect to get 4-5 responses calling me made up names like “blue maga” instead of presenting their take, specific candidates, pieces of legislation etc. because that’s where lemmy is at this point.
They think everything started on October 7, 2023…
They sure typed a lot of words to show that they don’t know shit about fuck
Removed by mod
They literally brought the parents of one of the hostages on stage at the DNC. This take is bullshit.
Voting is transactional. It is a tool. If you’re voting without demands is just weird. These politicians are not your friends or family. There is no need for the weird parasocial element to it.
I stand with the protesters. The same thing happened to activists for police reform. They went through every channel and protested just to be used as a set piece and watch the Biden admin increase police funding, and didn’t do much of anything. Liberals always disapprove of any form of accountability or protest. You will never please them unless you’re mindlessly Blue No Matter Who.
Voting is transactional. It is a tool. If you’re voting without demands is just weird. These politicians are not your friends or family. There is no need for the weird parasocial element to it.
Absolutely. But voting is also strategic. I’m not seeing any sense of strategy behind the actions of the protesters now, as other commenters have pointed out. I stand with their goal. But until someone coherently explains how their actions lead to less harm in Gaza I’m not going to support said actions.
people protesting is supposed to lead to our leaders listening and changing course
women’s suffrage
war protests in the 60s
protests to end segregation and demand better rights
list goes on and on
both parties now though have gotten to where they instantly demonize protesters demanding better
for example, pushing out tons of propaganda to the US citizens that enforces division and separation
I don’t think it’s demonization to say “your protests are counterproductive to your cause given the current electoral reality”.
Paraphrasing the other commenter, politicians are tools. So are political parties. The Democratic party is the best tool we have right now to preventing the GOP from backsliding not only with Gaza but with a slew of other progressive priorities. I don’t see a lot of these protesters being able to recognize that, and it speaks in their strategy.
I don’t think they have the time as each day more of their family and loved ones are being erased from existence. They’re protesting nicely and mostly respectfully considering things and it still isn’t good enough. The only resources they have is protests and the uncommitted movement. Outside of money there isn’t any other ways to get people in power to keep their word.
given the current electoral reality
Which is never gonna change unless we start supporting parties that actually want that change. And for right now, that’s a third party.
How many times have Republicans been in charge enough to change it? How many times have Democrats been in charge enough to change it?
And neither party has. And neither party wants to change it.
And people here on Lemmy keep saying stuff like, “But but THIS isn’t the election to work on that. Next time!” Which is what both parties have been saying for the last 50 years.
They’ve had plenty of opportunity to change things. And they haven’t. And they won’t.
And I’ll never vote Democrat or Republican until one of them actually makes the change.
And I’ll never vote Democrat or Republican until one of them actually makes the change.
That’s fine, I’m not interested in changing your mind. To everyone else, Socialist’s point here is silly. There is no mechanism for obtaining significant legislative power by voting 3rd party in a FPTP system. It might feel good and you can then write a wall of text about how awesome and moral you are, but you can only affect this election in one of two ways by voting for a specific candidate. You are either benefiting the 1st or 2nd place candidate no matter what you do. This is a mathematical fact when dealing with a FPTP system, like ours. I strongly support changing more elections to a RCV (or STAR) style system which would completely change the calculus here, but only one party has even come close to supporting those changes on a wide scale (guess which one).
This fact alone negates everything 3rd party people claim. It’s been pointed out so many times on Lemmy it should make you question why they continue to push this stuff while claiming they want the exact change they are knowingly fighting against. The path forward and the power needed to pass real progressive change is through the Democratic party, not against it. I’m not giving up the largest tool we have to stop the GOP because you would rather throw a temper tantrum. If someone has a better strategy than “well if everyone just voted for a 3rd party!” I’m all ears, but I’m not holding my breath.
The idea that voting third-party is a wasted vote in a FPTP system overlooks the broader impact that third-party votes can have on the political landscape.
Every vote sends a message about what policies and values are important to voters, and this can influence the platforms of major parties in future elections.
Sure, it’s true that our system is designed to favor two major parties, but dismissing third-party candidates entirely ignores the historical fact that significant social and political changes often start with minority voices pushing against the status quo.
Counting on the Democratic Party to implement progressive change assumes that the party will prioritize those changes, which history has shown that they are not doing. They’ve had PLENTY of time where they were in charge to implement major changes, but they so need need to change the status quo.
Voting your conscience isn’t a temper tantrum; it’s a commitment to pushing for a political system that truly represents a wider range of views.
It’s been pointed out so many times on Lemmy it should make you question why they continue to push this stuff while claiming they want the exact change they are knowingly fighting against.
Well, you do realize that almost half of the country won’t vote for your candidate, right? Are they ALL wrong and only you are right? The fact that HALF OF THE COUNTRY doesn’t want your candidate to be president, should make you question things as well.
Real change requires challenging the status quo, not just reinforcing it.
Real change requires challenging the status quo, not just reinforcing it.
Explain, in detail, how voting 3rd party leads to positive change in this general election for President of the United States. Tell me how “challenging the status quo” here is an effective use of resources and risk when swing states are being declined by 10s of thousands of votes? There’s no mechanism for the change you’re suggesting will come from voting 3rd party this election.
All you can do is write a wall about how bad the Democrats are, because that’s the only message you care about spreading, and why I don’t find engaging with you to be worth my time typically. Have a nice Sunday, I’m done with this one!
ETA: Everyone notice below, they just repeat the same exact talking points over and over. They will never backup any of the claims they are making. It’s all fluff.
both parties now though have gotten to where they instantly demonize protesters demanding better
Well said!
These people think haggling starts with a guarantee to buy the product. They get ripped off, then go back for more
Paragraph breaks, bro
OP, did you even follow or watch any coverage? This article is a flat out lie. Palestine was brought up by several outlets in one on one interviews. There were some mention in some of the big speeches. Democratic lawmakers were having open discussion about Palestine at the DNC amongst themselves. But here we are again crying because “I didn’t see or hear about it so I and those like me were ignored”. SMH.
Send the weapons intended for Israeli to Ukraine.
not just about the genocide both parties are okay with but if they are this willing to arm that kind of people what would they do against their own citizens just to order
that is what people are worried over and protesting about and have been for well over a century
another concern is the propaganda on both sides
the Democrats have everyone thinking that anyone is in dissent who disagrees with the Democrat Platform is either a Republican or a Russian Troll
and the Republicans are trying to incite hate against certain groups of people
Nazi Germany started in much this same fashion which again is why people have been sounding the alarm to us the citizens and begging for us to listen only to be labeled some uppity minority or labeled as a Trump supporter or labeled as a paid Russian troll
