Germans Combat Climate Change From Their Balconies
www.nytimes.com
Plug-and-play solar panels are popping up in yards and on balcony railings across Germany, driven by bargain prices and looser regulations.
      • entropicdrift@lemmy.sdf.orgEnglish
        50·
        2 months ago

        This article is from the New York Times, a prominent US newspaper which writes primarily for a US audience. It’s relevant for them to bring it up.

      • Leg@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
        43·
        2 months ago

        I hate this stupid country as much as the next guy, but I still want to know if there’s anything I’m allowed to do that might be good for the planet. Now I know I’m not allowed to do this because my stupid fucking country doesn’t allow it, which is usable information.

      • TitanLaGrange@lemmy.worldEnglish
        294·
        2 months ago

        FTA:

        The so-called plug-in systems involve routing the direct current generated by the panels to an inverter, which converts it to an alternating current. They can then be plugged into a conventional wall socket to feed power to a home.

        So, yeah, almost certainly illegal in pretty much any grid-powered home in the US.

        The basic problem is that if the grid power goes down the inverter can back-feed the grid enough to electrocute the people who are working to fix it.

        Utilities require an approved isolation system of some kind that prevents that happening. They are pretty strict about this for various other technical and political reasons too, but evidently it is mostly a safety concern.

        I’ve got some good locations at home for panels, and about 500W in panels that I use for camping, but the equipment I’d need to handle easily and safely consuming the power at home is kind of expensive (just running an inverter and a battery for an isolated system is easy enough, I’ve got all that, but it’s not cheap to seamlessly connect it to my home power system). Would love to have a safe and approved system like what is described in the article.

        • BastingChemina@slrpnk.netEnglish
          27·
          2 months ago

          Houses in Europe are connected to the grid too.

          These systems are approved in Europe by utilities because they have failsafes implemented to prevent back feeding electricity in the grid.

          The fact that these systems are still illegal in the US is a political issue, not a technical one.

          • turmacar@lemmy.worldEnglish
            4·
            2 months ago

            [European utilities] have failsafes implemented to prevent back feeding electricity in the grid

            Yeah but imagine if you could save money by not doing that? What are the odds that there’s going to be cheap(er) personal mass power generation in the next few decades.

          • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.worldEnglish
            31·
            2 months ago

            These systems are approved in Europe by utilities because they have failsafes implemented to prevent back feeding electricity in the grid.

            Sounds like Big Government Regulation of my God Damned Rights to do something on my house as I see fit! Europe’s full o’ damn communists and their stupid sun grabbin’ electro-gibbits. That’s why they’ll never be the Greatest Bestest Country on da face a dis here Earf.

          • AA5B@lemmy.worldEnglish
            2·
            2 months ago

            While it seems like they’d have to, the article makes no mention of such a fail safe. What does it do and how could it work?

          • bestagon@lemmy.worldEnglish
            1·
            2 months ago

            From what it sounds like, the safety is in the device not the grid. In case you haven’t noticed, there is a far lesser sense of personal responsibility to those around you in the US than Europe and I don’t know that I’d trust that nobody over here would fudge some bypass to power their house in an outage

      • jaemo@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
        131·
        2 months ago

        They are VERY DANGEROUS to conservatives and the flawed ideological rafts they’re still clinging to.

      • SaltySalamander@fedia.io
        514·
        2 months ago

        No, because you can kill a lineman working on the downed line, who mistakenly thinks the line is dead and has no idea that you’re feeding power into it from your solar panel.

        • Zahille7@lemmy.worldEnglish
          74·
          2 months ago

          I really feel like one of these store-bought solar panels wouldn’t put out enough electricity to kill someone

          • zaphod@sopuli.xyzEnglish
            6·
            2 months ago

            You really don’t need a lot of power to kill someone, especially with AC you really don’t need much to induce ventricular fibrillation.

          • frezik@midwest.socialEnglish
            1·
            2 months ago

            A 120W panel at full sunlight easily has enough power to kill someone. That’s 1A at 120V, minus some conversion losses. 120W is pretty low end these days.

        • barsoap@lemm.eeEnglish
          1·
          2 months ago

          Those inverters can’t backfeed, they need a grid to synchronise to.

    • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.worldEnglish
      22·
      2 months ago

      Largely illegal by way of import. The Americans don’t want cheap foreign panels dominating their still-nascent domestic solar industry.

  • BrightCandle@lemmy.worldEnglish
    29·
    2 months ago

    These plugin systems are quite interesting, they allow renters for example to get some benefits of Solar without having to make permanent installs. The systems a lot cheaper than a full setup but obviously don’t produce the same amount of power. I first saw them appearing in France and then since Germany changed the law to allow them its good to see it flourishing there too. This isn’t going to save the planet but its a little step of improvement.

    400 Euro isn’t bad for all the fittings and inverter and the big benefit of these DIY systems is you just put them together and connect them to a standard wall socket. Constantly just saves you money on your bills when there is sunshine. Its also not enough power that its worth dealing with export tariffs but in countries where smart meters already exist it could be part of the mix.

    • Blackmist@feddit.ukEnglish
      1·
      2 months ago

      How does that work with the fuse box? Like mine has a 100A fuse for the whole house, but a bunch of smaller fuses for e.g. downstairs, upstairs, lights, etc. Does it only work on the circuit it’s connected to or what?

      • BrightCandle@lemmy.worldEnglish
        2·
        2 months ago

        It can power across the circuits its all technically the same electrical connection within a house. These systems are relatively small due to the constraints of a typical standard plug and the amps it can support so they tend to be limited to less than half of the total power on a loop.

  • Imperor@lemmy.worldEnglish
    13·
    2 months ago

    I put a small flexible light weight one up last year. Secured with steel washcloth line (it doesn’t have glass or anything, just a plastic sheet with cells on it), the city replaced the meter to account for feeding in (not needed, I work home office and use up all of it in my apartment) cost me 600 or so last year, plugs into regular wall socket and has already lowered consumption by about 1/10th which is a solid chunk of money with current prices. I am very happy I get to do something as a renter, even if it will take years to pay for itself.

  • Media Bias Fact Checker@lemmy.worldBEnglish
    99·
    2 months ago
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    • ByteOnBikes@slrpnk.netEnglish
      4·
      2 months ago

      I don’t hate this bot.

      But I don’t love it. Maybe it’s just too much info? Or formatting? I don’t know.

    • BakedCatboyEnglish
      21·
      2 months ago

      Bro the article headline even says balcony railings. We’re talking single solar panel + plug in micro inverter type setups. That’s like $200 if you shop around.

      And not sure if you’re aware, but after the “usable age” the system produces at like 80% capacity, so unless you disconnected from the grid and really really need that last 20%, you don’t need to change a thing and can keep using it way past the warranty period. Or you can add a couple extra panels. Why replace the whole thing lol.

    • geissi@feddit.orgEnglish
      4·
      2 months ago

      In Germany, individual plug-in panels sell for as low as 200 euros, or about $217, at big box stores. Complete sets, including mountings, an inverter and cables, are about twice that cost.