Can you imagine a full majority blue government again? Last time we got health care light, who knows what we might get a little of this time?
Maybe some of that freedom your nutjobs keep banging on about.
Make no mistake that small progress is still progress and given the amount of money spent on regression, don’t let perfect be the enemy of good.
If given the choice of something better, never go for the other option because the first is not better enough
don’t let perfect be the enemy of good.
This sentiment is way too rare. Personally I’m a fan of using “don’t let perfect be the enemy of good enough”
It needs to be selectively applied though. We should fight for perfection, but we shouldn’t avoid small gains in favor of large aspirations.
That’s what the saying means. It doesn’t mean perfect isn’t good. It means perfect is great, but don’t let it stop good.
just remember: “perfect” is a journey, not a destination. it something to strive for knowing full well that you’ll never get there because it’s impossible.
Oh yes, absolutely
don’t let perfect be the enemy of good.
This sentiment is way too rare
Except literally every time someone on the left points out the Dem leadership habit of inching in the right direction while not doing much to stop their fascist counterparts from yarding if not miling in the opposite.
What little progress conservative Democrats DO graciously deign to bestow on the unwashed masses is the equivalent of getting a 2% raise in a year where your unavoidable expenses such as food, shelter, and medicine rose by double digits.
That’s not good. That’s insufficient.
So give us more Democrats and you’ll get more results. It’s a simple question of mathematics. We can’t pass laws unless you give us the numbers in Congress.
So give us more Democrats and you’ll get more results. It’s a simple question of mathematics
If they do their jobs well, they get rewarded with votes. It’s a simple question of not inverting the relationship between the public servants and the public.
We can’t pass laws unless you give us the numbers in Congress.
And people won’t vote for you if you pass bad laws and/or do nothing with the mandate you’re given. Which is what 90%+ of them do.
If they start actually helping people more, people will reward them. Giving them all they want in return for bad job performance isn’t the motivator to do better you seem to think it is.
If they do their jobs well, they get rewarded with votes. It’s a simple question of not inverting the relationship between the public servants and the public.
Hard disagree. The public is not a monolith. It does not know what it wants, because most people want mutually exclusive things.
[the public] does not know what it wants
Holy paternalistic condescension, Batman! 😬🤦
That’s not how it works. I’m not just saying that, I mean functionally, what you’re saying is impossible. We can’t make progress until we get the numbers in Congress, and you won’t give us the numbers in Congress until we make progress. So nothing ever gets done. Gridlock at best.
And people wonder why the Dems seem so ineffectual. Its because our voters are piss poor at understanding how our fucking government works. Vote first, and then get results. It’s literally impossible for it to happen the other way around. People who are not in Congress can’t pass laws. You have to get them into Congress first.
You can get results by going for things republicans also want. As in, negotiate with your counterparts on the hill.
Sometimes the way forward isn’t one of overpowering all opposition. Not everything is a blitzkrieg.
the Dems seem so ineffectual. Its because our voters
Classic victim blaming. “We’re doing a lousy job because of the people not trusting us in spite of doing a lousy job!” 🙄
Vote first, and then get results.
That hasn’t worked since 1978 at the very latest and it won’t suddenly start working now.
The problem isn’t that the average voter doesn’t help Democrats enough. The problem is that Democrats don’t help the average voter enough.
The reason for that problem isn’t a lack of mandate, it’s that the vast majority represent their big sum owner donors much more than the public at large. As shown by how the party fights anti-corporate Democrats much harder than they ever fight Republicans, even the fascists of today.
People who are not in Congress can’t pass law
And people who don’t prioritize the interests of the public don’t pass law that furthers the interest of the public over those that supply big legal bribes, no matter how many of them there are in Congress.
These are hyperbolic times.
The internet age has all but murdered nuance.
No, republican fear mongering, and their refusal to recognize facts has all but murdered nuance. You can’t have nuanced discussion because a significant portion of the populace have been delightfully gobbling up a buffet of lies. There is no nuance about reproductive healthcare when abortion is murder. There is no nuance about the electoral system when every election is rigged. There is no nuance about equality in law when the president is immune from all crimes. The Internet didn’t destroy nuance, certain people have been throwing nuance out the window as fast as possible because an educated and empowered populace weakens their grip on the wheel of power.
“Don’t let perfect be the enemy of better.”
“Don’t butcher things your parents taught you”
The problem can be that some progress can be used to placate the masses by halting the momentum.
Obamacare was a step in the right direction, but also enough to kill the momentum towards the actual solutions that would have provided universal healthcare. Even those wouldn’t have been perfect, but now the drive has plataeued and good enough for most people means we won’t get good enough for everyone any time soon.
Decriminalizing weed instead of legalizing and regulating is another. It doesn’t actually solve the inherent problems with the war on drugs because the drug trade that does involve criminal activity is still present. This kind of situation can backfire by reinforcing people’s belief in the lies about drugs inherently causing violent crime.
So the sentiment is correct, but not all progress is good enough and partial progress can be a long term negative.
Obamacare was a step in the right direction, but also enough to kill the momentum towards the actual solutions
Bullshit. If we’d kept the supermajority, democrats would have EXPANDED Obamacare.
Republicans are stopping progress. Democrats didn’t go “eh fuck it I don’t feel like helping people anymore”. They were blocked by Republicans.
If we’d kept the supermajority, democrats would have EXPANDED Obamacare.
Democrats could have dropped the filibuster to be able to pass that better version with a simple majority. Then they could ride that success in future elections by pointing out that they were willing to overcome Republican obstruction.
But instead they half assed it when they had the chance and achieved partial progress that killed the momentum. Then the Republicans dropped the filibuster partially to stack the courts.
Dropping the filibuster is a nuclear option that will open us up to massive Republican attacks when they’re in power. It’s not a move to be taken lightly.
It has zero power when the other party holds all three branches other than tradition.
Republicans have already shown they don’t care about tradition, and they only keep the neutered version of it around to obstruct Democratic legislation. Republicans already snipped it out from the judicial nominations when they had the senate and the oval office. If they hold all three branches they will drop it the moment they want to pass an abortion ban or anything else. The Democrats keeping it around is just shooting themselves in the foot.
Remember that the filibuster exists with a simple majority in the senate and can be dropped at a moments notice. It was never needed in the first place because needing the House, Senate, and a Presidential signature is already enough room for obstruction and the idea that it keeps debate from being stifled has long proven to be false based on it being used without needing to even be spoken.
The filibuster only benefits Repubilcan obstruction. Why the Democrats won’t let it go is beyond me.
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the nutjobs will never get the freedom they want. they want freedom to step on others and freedom from accountability.
they do not have the same desires as you and i.
Yeah but this bill won’t become law
Make no mistake that small progress is still progress
That’s an argument I remember from under Obama. But the theory was that these small progressions would compound over time. In practice, the Dems don’t make progress, they inhibit it. Liberals draw in an enormous amount of labor and financial power to campaign, then immediately sell out to corporate interests. They pass stop-gap bills to splinter progressive movements into factions of haves and have-nots. Then they collapse in the face of a reactionary resurgence.
The reactionaries impose huge reversals of existing New Deal and Great Society programs. They engage in flagrant criminality without any form of censure. They prosecute wars to loot natural resources abroad. Then they ship domestic capital overseas to dilute labor power at home and swell the ranks of the underemployed. They lard us up with debts to the same plutocrats who put them in office and leave Democrats with the bill when they finally slink out of office. And they balloon the national security state to surveil, suppress, and murder protesters and dissidents in nascent left-wing movements.
The “small progress” is a ratchet. It isn’t progress at all. We’re regressing rapidly. The liberal party seems content to prevent any kind of contrary political pressure, while the conservative movement goes all-in on paramilitary fascism.
Go away.
It’s a bit disingenuous to say we had a full blue government. Technically we had it but our majority in the senate didn’t really exist due to false Dems like Manchin
Plus the filibuster requires 2/3, not a simple majority to get anything done.
But doesn’t need 2/3rds to remove, only majority. Which then gets back to the “pseudo” dems that appear anything it gets close to having progressive legislation passed
Removing the filibuster is a nuclear option that will ensure Republicans will be unable to be stopped next time they’re in power. It’s a stupid idea.
I disagree, republicans don’t let the filibuster stop them when they want to do something.
They can still pass their tax cuts because of reconciliation and they immediately changed the rules to lock in the supreme Court.
Classic example of Democrats pretending the other side has a respect for rules and tradition.
And we were able to pass Build Back Better with reconciliation. The filibuster hampers both sides, and removing it is a terrible, dangerous idea.
I actually disagree. Removing it is a democratic idea. We already have 2 houses of Congress which must agree to pass legislation and the president must sign it unless Congress can muster a supermajority.
Any voter has had 4 chances in the ballot box to represent their interest, we do not need to set artificially higher standards to prevent legislation from passing.
If voters sow the wind by electing lawmakers that support reckless or harmful policy, then voters should reap the whirlwind that results.
Manchin wasn’t even in the Senate yet. Lieberman was an independent that endorsed Romney 3 years later.
There were senators from Louisiana and Missouri in that majority.
Also Franken wasn’t seated until like June because of recounts and lawsuits. Ted Kennedy was on deaths door and passed away 2 months later. His replacement was seated a couple months after that and then Scott Brown won in fucking Massachusetts in January.
They ended up with something like 109 working days in which Democrats could override a Republican filibuster. They passed 2 major pieces of legislation. Dodd Frank and the ACA.
I miss the days when the arguments were whether we should have universal healthcare or whether we should force insurance companies to cover preexisting conditions. Arguments over whether we should have a democracy or not just aren’t the same…
I believe Harris was against universal Healthcare for all :-(
- As president, it won’t matter. She’ll sign anything her party gives her to sign, because there’s zero reason for her to pick a fight with congressional democrats.
- In 2019 she literally and specifically backed Medicare for All, so this claim is factually incorrect.
Harris healthcare plan in 2020 was to the left of Bidens, She called for Medicare for all. She dissagreed with Bernie about banning private insurance.
She was not against universal healthcare. I doubt she is now. If Dems sweep the house and somehow picked up 10 seats in the Senate (impossible) she might try to go for it.
It’s not impossible in 2026 for Dems to make big gains in the Senate, but it is very, very unlikely.
Can you imagine a full majority blue government again?
Easily. But when so many of the elected officials on Team Blue are as subservient to private business interests, plutocrats, and foreign state governments as their counterparts on Team Red, I’m not sure what good it’ll do.
100 Joe Manchins and Kristen Sinemas won’t do us any favors.
BoTh sIdEzZz
Bullshit and no one is buying it anymore.
Then why are you here?
If you don’t believe in electoral politics that’s fine. But you should be off organizing union drives, or mutual aid societies, or literally any other venue for democratic power.
Why would you care which corporate shill holds office?
Your presence here suggests that it does, in fact, matter who wins elections, or which team holds power.
Great, now do Citizens United, Trump v US, Roe and maybe try Dred Scott again but where corporations don’t have all the same rights as people and can’t be criminally prosecuted.
And reverse southern pacific vs santa clara and end corporate personhood
One step at a time bud.
If you try and do everything at once you get nothing done at all.
Unless you do everything at once with conflicting interests across different parts of “everything” and you get an omnibus bill, which is the only way to actually get anything done in congress nowadays (for some god-forsaken reason)
This is how black people end up counting as 3/5ths of a person.
Or if we don’t try to do everything at once or we do nothing, same exact outcome, nothing at all.
Nobody’s going to see any traction on any of this until something horrible and messy happens. We’re going to wait until most people won’t stand it anymore
Let’s fucking go!
The courts kind of already denying the authority of the legislature on this. These agencies were created and given authority by congress already.
Yeah, they’ve gotten to the point of saying the legislature cannot delegate it’s authority. If it stands it functionally makes modern government impossible. If Congress cannot delegate to the executive, and it cannot take on executive style decision like the Westminster system, the government just cannot function.
Let SCOTUS enforce it. Why anyone still listens to that nut job chorus is beyond me.
They won’t have to. Lower courts do it.
Whats going to happen is that every time a corporation doesn’t like a regulation, they will sue to stop it. If possible in the specific case, they will shop for the right circuit court that’s stuffed with judges favorable to them. The regulation will be stopped from taking hold while the case is in process. The federal bench is already overloaded, so this will take years. The corp will continue as they were in the meantime.
Even worse, a corp can now bring up cases against old regulations that started affecting them. An old corp getting into a new area, or a spinoff subsidiary taking their old business, could challenge any regulation that suddenly affects them.
This isn’t like, say, school integration, where the President helps out the enforcement by sending the National Guard. Everything happens within the courts, plus the agencies respecting a court ordered stop like they always have.
They overturned the courts previous decision. Technically it wasn’t a law before, it just was heavily implied (as in Congress specifically left things vague bc they wanted federal agencies to fill in the blanks in accordance to the Chevron doctrine).
Basically, there wasn’t any part that was unconstitutional, they just said the court was overstepping their boundaries when they “created” the Chevron doctrine.
Edit: please read the comment below, it seems like my understanding wasn’t quite right
The court basically said it was a separation of powers issue. The basic powers of the branches are:
- The Legislative (Congress) creates laws
- The Executive (President) actually puts those laws into action (they are “executed” by this aptly named branch)
- The Judicial (courts) interpret legality of the actions of the Executive branch based on the wording of the laws passed by Congress, and the constitutionality of those laws (that is, if the law itself is even legal to be enforced)
The Chevron Deference doctrine was the courts saying “Congress occasionally writes laws vaguely and we don’t have expertise on every subject matter, so we are going to defer the decision-making of what exactly the law means to actual experts in the Executive branch.” Congress has written laws using this logic, intentionally granting power to the Executive branch that would otherwise reside with Congress (i.e. Congress says “how much of X particulate in the air is too much? We could write a specific law stating that 500 ppm is too much, but it’s a lot of work to do that for every particulate, and the science gets updated over time, so we’ll just tell the Executive to place ‘reasonable limits’ and call it a day.”)
Now the Court has said “That power you’ve ceded to the Executive branch? That should be ours because it’s our job to interpret what laws mean. We now decide how much of X particulate is too much, even when we mix it up with Y particulate.”
It’s a blatant power grab by the Court and a separation of powers issue. Congress SHOULD be able to remedy it by specifying that this decision-making power should reside with the Executive branch and the Judiciary won’t be able to say “no mine”. I mean, this Court WILL, but a legitimate Court wouldn’t.
Out of curiosity, what would stop SCOTUS being like “Nah, this law goes against the constitution”?
It’s my understanding that SCOTUS has the power to repeal laws. Wouldn’t the only real way to codify would to put it in the constitution?
Until SCOTUS declares amendments to the constitution to be unconstitutional.
SCOTUS “Mumble, mumble…found fathers…mumble, mumble, clearly unconstitutional…mumble, mumble, amendment not ratified correctly.”
Here’s my understanding as a layman, please correct me if I’m wrong.
SCOTUS could block the creation of a law if it was deemed unconstitutional, but even with a conservative SCOTUS, it’s unlikely they would in this case. As in many cases, SCOTUS didn’t overturn a law here, but rather changed their decision on the interpretation of the law, specifically the Administrative Procedure Act. If congress passes a law that explicitly delegates certain powers to agencies, or codifies regulations that had previously been defined by an agency, that would be harder to fight since the APA, as far as I can tell, does not prohibit it. Warren’s bill is basically saying “if we can’t implicitly delegate power to agencies to create regulations, we should at least be forced to quickly review suggested regulations to prevent them from getting stuck in congress.”
Again, this is just my understanding as a layman. IANAL
There was the Voting Rights Act case, Shelby County v. Holder. A case in which SCOTUS struck a provision in the Voting Rights Act as they declared it was unconstitutional. If you can declare a provision unconstitutional, what would stop SCOTUS from declaring an entire law unconstitutional?
We’ve already seen a SCOTUS decide it can do anything it wants.
Again, they can, but it’s less likely. It really depends on how much the genuine threat of civil unrest and violence compares against whatever benefit they get from voting a certain way (which, in perfect world, would be nothing).
Truthfully I don’t think this particular ruling was incorrect or outside the reasonable extent of their powers. Do I think the timing of it was motivated by corporate and political greed? Absolutely. It’s abundantly clear that the decision, popular among conservatives, was meant to serve as a Trump “win” based on the justices he put in place (again, disturbingly contrary to the intended purpose of the SCOTUS). It’s also a potentially dangerous decision to make without any time allotted to get critical regulations codified by congress.
That all being said, while I in no way trust in the impartiality of the current SCOTUS, I do think repealing a law without fairly universal bipartisan support is a decent bit more extreme than what they did here. I think there needs to be a balance between genuine, concerning possibilities and doom-and-gloom panic.
They didn’t rule it unconstitutional, they ruled it incompatible with the 1946 Administrative Procedure Act. So the law could change it.
Granted, they could later try to rule it unconstitutional, but it would kill Looper Bright.
With Marbury v Madison, the court gave itself the authority to interpret the constitution and the laws that congress enacts and the president enforces. These are statutory laws.
The other kind of law is court precedent. It is the law that the court creates based in the cases that come before it. It is inextricably linked to statutory law. Of course the highest court can overturn the law of lower courts or its own decisions.
Yes, the court can strike down laws.
The only way to get around the court is to amend the constitution itself. When amending, the language should be plain and clear so that SCOTUS cannot misinterpret it. Though there are several amendments that have been interpreted various ways over time.
Amending the constitution is a difficult process because it requires a lot of agreement between the members of congress/ senators and the states. See article V of the constitution.
The only way to get around the court is to amend the constitution itself.
That’s not actually the case. The Constitution says this about the court system.
Article III - Section 2.
The judicial power shall extend to all cases, in law and equity, arising under this Constitution, the laws of the United States, and treaties made, or which shall be made, under their authority;–to all cases affecting ambassadors, other public ministers and consuls;–to all cases of admiralty and maritime jurisdiction;–to controversies to which the United States shall be a party;–to controversies between two or more states;–between a state and citizens of another state;–between citizens of different states;–between citizens of the same state claiming lands under grants of different states, and between a state, or the citizens thereof, and foreign states, citizens or subjects.
In all cases affecting ambassadors, other public ministers and consuls, and those in which a state shall be party, the Supreme Court shall have original jurisdiction. In all the other cases before mentioned, the Supreme Court shall have appellate jurisdiction, both as to law and fact, with such exceptions, and under such regulations as the Congress shall make.
Emphasis mine. The inferior courts have jurisdiction over all matters other than “cases affecting ambassadors, other public ministers and consuls, and those in which a state shall be party.” For those, SCOTUS has original jurisdiction. SCOTUS handles appeals to the judgements of the inferior courts “with such exceptions, and under such regulations as the Congress shall make.”
We do not need to amend the constitution to rein in SCOTUS. Congress, under the this article of the constitution, Congress has the authority to create legislation that limits the power of the supreme court on all matters other than “cases affecting ambassadors, other public ministers and consuls, and those in which a state shall be party.” Congress can increase the size of the court allowing the current president to add judges. They can add term limits and other limits to SCOTUS. The problem is that one party doesn’t want to fix the problem and that party is running the House and obstructing the Senate thanks to the filibuster rule. If we had a functioning Congress, we could pass regulations forcing the justices to abide by ethics rules. We could make it illegal for justices to accept gifts from billionaires.
Sadly, this will not happen without a Democratic controlled House and a Senate with at lease 60 actual Democratic Senators, and a Democrat in the White House. Still far more likely than a Constitutional Amendment, though.
There’s another built in way for Congress and the President to get around SCOTUS. Just ignore the ruling. The most permanent way is an amendment but ignoring it and enforcing the law anyways does work. For example Banks will freeze accounts if the regulator tells them they have to. They aren’t going to make a principled stand for you.
If a regulator enforces a law against you that the court has deemed unconstitutional, you can sue the regulator for damages with the expectation that the court will be on your side.
The more obvious “built in” option is for the president to pack the court.
The US Marshals enforce court orders. The judges are powerless on their own and that’s by design.
If a portion of the government wholly stops listening to a part of the government that has authority over it, they call it a coup.
Nah it’s just a Constitutional Crisis. But we’ve been through this drill before. As long as you only ignore one or two key rulings it’s pretty mild.
Our branches of government are supposed to keep each other from going too far. It’s literally in the system design documents.
… Are we suddenly going to start fighting the supreme Court? Finally? Finally?
Approved.
At this point in time it isn’t enough. Republicans and the conservative justices will find whatever loopholes there are. They need to be advocating to change the role of the Supreme Court to an advisory agency only, where they have no decision-making powers.
The SCOTUS is necessary in a functioning system of checks and balances on power amongst the three branches of the federal government. The problem we have now is a court stacked with looney judges subverting the will of the people. We need a more effective means of maintaining balance in the court.
Have you never heard of the Court of Appeals?
Sure have. The SCOTUS takes up cases from the US Circuit Courts of Appeals. Appellate courts certainly serve their purpose, as district courts can and do get decisions wrong. But, the SCOTUS needs to be balanced enough to where one political viewpoint doesn’t dominate their decisions and subsequent precedents.
Failed civics?
I’m not sure they need loopholes. They’re perfectly fine with tossing out precedent and rehashing settled law. Next step is to just make shit up.
