“Trump does not want people to know about the entire vanguard of extremist weirdos around him—and what their plans are when he governs,” says Chris Hayes on voters finding out about the far-right agenda that is Project 2025.
Let’s not be ridiculous here, he’s had plenty of times where he’s struggled to articulate. I agree it’s insane to not vote for him, but these type of statements just give ammo to trump supporters to point to Biden supporters and say how clueless they are.
Struggling to articulate is very different from bad speeches. He has never sounded like he did at the debate. It was him at his worst, ever. Probably because he had a cold and tried remembering every single data point that supported his successful presidency.
It’s how bad our media silos are and how disengaged many people are. Not a good sign.
My wife who has enough on her plate working in trauma just texts me out of the blue yesterday with something like, “just read about project 2025. Holy shit!”
My husband has specifically asked me not to talk to him about politics. He has verbalized he feels powerless and wants to focus on things he can control more within his immediate realm (dont worry guys, he’s still voting Biden). He’s also asked me to decrease the amount of depressing topics I share with him overall.
I did tell him I recommend him read up on it because its “scary AF” and that I was quite scared
However, I do agree with other posters that its the lack of news coverage on the topic is why so many people are uninformed. We need more individuals to share and educate about this.
This is pretty much the identical conversation that occurred with my wife. She tries to remain upbeat and outgoing and gets anxious and depressed by an onslaught of that kind of news. I tend to get more fired up and focused, but my circumstances admittedly permit that more.
We have kids, work opposite schedules, and she deals with death and stress on a daily basis that few other professions compare. I let her decide when she wants to tune in because she tends to get overwhelmed by it all. She and I see eye-to-eye and it changes nothing on how we vote anyway.
There’s a level of apathy that has been a part of American politics my entire life, the logic is that all politicians do is make promises that they never fulfill and anything said about or by a candidate really doesn’t matter, and it’s treated as an axiom.
Obamas years in office without the Hope and Change we all desperately wanted when he was first elected cemented this in the minds of my millennial peers and it was already pervasive in the older generations.
Not pinning it all on Biden here but his quote from 2020 “nothing will fundamentally change” is very much what i reckon the average American believes. Very few believe anything good or ill could happen here.
Most people in all countries are extremely ignorant and disinterested about politics. Do not expect more of American voters than you’d expect of your own country’s voters.
A great example of that is Brexit in my own country. People voted for lots of ridiculous reasons both for and against, and in the end we got a crazy close but negative outcome. Just under 52% voted in favour of brexit, but I guarantee much less than half that number truly understood the issues and knew what they were voting for. It was a vote that should never have happened - it was all an arrogant ploy by David Cameron to increase control over his own party and instead it has torn the whole country apart.
People complain about the news media but its just a product of the lazy and disinterested electorate. Mass media doesn’t cater to fact and debate, it caters to shock value to try and get people watching.
That’s why biden has to go - most people don’t care that trump is a lunatic or biden has had successes. Not enough will care about Project 25 even though it will damage many of trumps own voters. All they care about is that biden looks old and sounds like he’s dementing because that’s all that’s cutting through.
american politeness requires that we not talk about politics in public and that encourages americans to ignore everything until it impacts them; broaching the subject will label you a malcontent.
People who talk about politics and religion at work tend to get hated at best and fired at worst.
People who talk about politics and religion on social media risk getting lectures from relatives and losing friends.
So yeah, people do not talk about politics and religion in America a lot of the time.
Honestly, the only reason my mother-in-law and I have maintained a really good relationship over the decades is because we just don’t talk about religion or politics. My wife and I are pretty much on the opposite side of the map from her on both. So we just don’t talk about it rather than become enemies. Maybe that’s not the right way to go about things, but it’s saved a lot of stress where we don’t need it.
I don’t know about everywhere but in France we can talk about religion and politics everywhere we like without risking much. Sometimes we’ll argue loudly for about an hour, and then the next day everything is forgotten. Or at least that was the case. I don’t know how it will go if the fascist far-right wins the election tomorrow though…
That’s one of the things I’ve loved about France since university; a deep and unbridled passion for politics and no shame in standing up for what one believes in.
Would it be better if we ruin our relationship with my wife’s elderly mother? What would it achieve? Do you think she would vote differently? How would that improve anyone’s life in any way?
Obviously we still have political protesters and things like that but nowadays things are so divided politically that it is typically a topic that you would avoid in everyday conversation. If you were to bring up anything political with your coworker at a get together after hours for example and you find that you are on opposite ends of the political spectrum it could make it very difficult to work together at best and potentially endanger you at worst.
It’s considered impolite to espouse political views here in Australia.
However, I’ve found that taking about issues rather than identities, with a modicum of diplomacy, is usually fine.
I think this would be a lot more difficult in the US with the issues at hand because you’re not deciding mundane things like whether to subsidise roof top solar but rather, whether autocracy would make a nice change.
You used an conservative American political dog whistle when you mentioned identity politics and you’re part of western hegemony as an Australian, so I would be a bad leftist if I let it be.
It’s a dog whistle here because everyone has an identity that comes attached w perpetually unaddressed needs and the ruling class of people only considers their own identity to be the national discourse; establishing that other identities are little more than causes for division.
Aussies are not as wrapped up in identity politics as Americans despite some efforts to import the culture wars bullshit, fine sandy bottom was referring to actual identities such as Trump or Biden or Dutton and Albo.
Well, one of them has managed quite well for the past few years. Sure he is old. Sure he might die. Is he a bad option because of this? No. He dies, you get Harris. Maybe not exciting but not Republican crazy bad.
And he might not die, he might just keep getting less able to do the job. Either way, that’s really not someone people want to hear all that much about unless they’re already invested in the horse race.
Most people don’t want to hear about crazy grandpa or boring grandpa unless they’re at grandpa’s house.
If might was money, we’d all be rich. He might not. Missunderstand me correctly, I know it’s not optimal and I would have preferred something else. All I’m saying is, there are not two bad choices. Only one bad. The other is eeeeh.
I understand what you’re saying, and if the populace was rational, I’d agree. But they’re not. They see two bad choices and I really don’t think that can solely be blamed on the media. Part of it is just that they’re both really old.
I tried putting off state and local election stuff until a canvasser came to the door last week and asked about public education funding, because the republican chain all the way up in this state wants nothing but charter schools (along with turning this place into even more of a cesspit). I would’ve found out closer to November, but now it’s going to haunt me for months instead of weeks.
Because the msm networks won’t cover it, if it’s not on cnn, msnbc, or fox then the majority of Americans will never hear it and won’t believe it if it doesn’t come from those anyway
So you’re on truth social, the Fox News comments section, OAN, and other far-right American outlets (you know, the people who most need to hear it) saying this too, right? Right? Of course you are. You’d be hypocritical af not to.
Jfc Americans. How did any one not know about project 2025?
The rest of the world is watching you elect your new supreme leader eternal and you guys are just sleep walking it through.
“Yeah, but the not fascist was bad at speaking, so I’m just gonna elect the fascist person by not voting.”
…the not fascist was bad at speaking one time, so I’m just gonna elect the lying/rapist/felon fascist person by not voting
Let’s not be ridiculous here, he’s had plenty of times where he’s struggled to articulate. I agree it’s insane to not vote for him, but these type of statements just give ammo to trump supporters to point to Biden supporters and say how clueless they are.
Biden is old, but the man has also overcome a pronounced stutter. I’m more interested in policy and the people he puts in place.
Agreed. But pretending that this has just been a one time thing doesnt do anything but make you look like you haven’t been paying attention at all
I mean, if we talking about gaffs, remember W?
“A fool can’t be fooled again”
Struggling to articulate is very different from bad speeches. He has never sounded like he did at the debate. It was him at his worst, ever. Probably because he had a cold and tried remembering every single data point that supported his successful presidency.
I see you’re hip to the new form of left praxis on Lemmy.
It’s how bad our media silos are and how disengaged many people are. Not a good sign.
My wife who has enough on her plate working in trauma just texts me out of the blue yesterday with something like, “just read about project 2025. Holy shit!”
I was like oh sweet summer child lol.
I told my wife the minute I heard about it a few months back… Do you not talk to her?
My husband has specifically asked me not to talk to him about politics. He has verbalized he feels powerless and wants to focus on things he can control more within his immediate realm (dont worry guys, he’s still voting Biden). He’s also asked me to decrease the amount of depressing topics I share with him overall. I did tell him I recommend him read up on it because its “scary AF” and that I was quite scared
However, I do agree with other posters that its the lack of news coverage on the topic is why so many people are uninformed. We need more individuals to share and educate about this.
This is pretty much the identical conversation that occurred with my wife. She tries to remain upbeat and outgoing and gets anxious and depressed by an onslaught of that kind of news. I tend to get more fired up and focused, but my circumstances admittedly permit that more.
We have kids, work opposite schedules, and she deals with death and stress on a daily basis that few other professions compare. I let her decide when she wants to tune in because she tends to get overwhelmed by it all. She and I see eye-to-eye and it changes nothing on how we vote anyway.
Not recently, tell her to call me
Calm down…
Our news outlets are too busy reporting on Biden right now. Please give them some room to breathe…
Pffft
When I’ve shown people Project 2025 they often don’t believe it’s real. Despite evidence to the contrary.
it’s real but is it “real” like how the border wall was “real”? I think that’s where a lot of people are at.
There’s a level of apathy that has been a part of American politics my entire life, the logic is that all politicians do is make promises that they never fulfill and anything said about or by a candidate really doesn’t matter, and it’s treated as an axiom.
Obamas years in office without the Hope and Change we all desperately wanted when he was first elected cemented this in the minds of my millennial peers and it was already pervasive in the older generations.
Not pinning it all on Biden here but his quote from 2020 “nothing will fundamentally change” is very much what i reckon the average American believes. Very few believe anything good or ill could happen here.
Most people in all countries are extremely ignorant and disinterested about politics. Do not expect more of American voters than you’d expect of your own country’s voters.
A great example of that is Brexit in my own country. People voted for lots of ridiculous reasons both for and against, and in the end we got a crazy close but negative outcome. Just under 52% voted in favour of brexit, but I guarantee much less than half that number truly understood the issues and knew what they were voting for. It was a vote that should never have happened - it was all an arrogant ploy by David Cameron to increase control over his own party and instead it has torn the whole country apart.
People complain about the news media but its just a product of the lazy and disinterested electorate. Mass media doesn’t cater to fact and debate, it caters to shock value to try and get people watching.
That’s why biden has to go - most people don’t care that trump is a lunatic or biden has had successes. Not enough will care about Project 25 even though it will damage many of trumps own voters. All they care about is that biden looks old and sounds like he’s dementing because that’s all that’s cutting through.
american politeness requires that we not talk about politics in public and that encourages americans to ignore everything until it impacts them; broaching the subject will label you a malcontent.
Is that really a thing?
People who talk about politics and religion at work tend to get hated at best and fired at worst.
People who talk about politics and religion on social media risk getting lectures from relatives and losing friends.
So yeah, people do not talk about politics and religion in America a lot of the time.
Honestly, the only reason my mother-in-law and I have maintained a really good relationship over the decades is because we just don’t talk about religion or politics. My wife and I are pretty much on the opposite side of the map from her on both. So we just don’t talk about it rather than become enemies. Maybe that’s not the right way to go about things, but it’s saved a lot of stress where we don’t need it.
Isn’t that the same everywhere?
I have no idea. I was just explaining to the person above why we don’t talk about it much.
And these days, with MAGA fanatics, there’s also the possibility of actual physical harm.
Not only physical harm but social, economic, career and mental harm. They will definitely hurt you because the truth hurts their feelings.
I don’t know about everywhere but in France we can talk about religion and politics everywhere we like without risking much. Sometimes we’ll argue loudly for about an hour, and then the next day everything is forgotten. Or at least that was the case. I don’t know how it will go if the fascist far-right wins the election tomorrow though…
That’s one of the things I’ve loved about France since university; a deep and unbridled passion for politics and no shame in standing up for what one believes in.
Tomorrow is going to be an interesting day.
No, but it’s getting more and more so here (Sweden) too with the ongoing polarization.
She surely won’t worry when they cart you and your wife off to Gitmo because you probably had it coming to you.
Would it be better if we ruin our relationship with my wife’s elderly mother? What would it achieve? Do you think she would vote differently? How would that improve anyone’s life in any way?
In my experience, yes. Mainly because for as long as I’ve been alive, if you have a dissenting opinion people tend to get very heated.
Obviously we still have political protesters and things like that but nowadays things are so divided politically that it is typically a topic that you would avoid in everyday conversation. If you were to bring up anything political with your coworker at a get together after hours for example and you find that you are on opposite ends of the political spectrum it could make it very difficult to work together at best and potentially endanger you at worst.
that and religion are no no’s.
i googled it and found lots of treatises on the subject
American politeness? No
It’s more of a thing so you aren’t constantly fighting with your family.
It’s considered impolite to espouse political views here in Australia.
However, I’ve found that taking about issues rather than identities, with a modicum of diplomacy, is usually fine.
I think this would be a lot more difficult in the US with the issues at hand because you’re not deciding mundane things like whether to subsidise roof top solar but rather, whether autocracy would make a nice change.
You used an conservative American political dog whistle when you mentioned identity politics and you’re part of western hegemony as an Australian, so I would be a bad leftist if I let it be.
It’s a dog whistle here because everyone has an identity that comes attached w perpetually unaddressed needs and the ruling class of people only considers their own identity to be the national discourse; establishing that other identities are little more than causes for division.
Aussies are not as wrapped up in identity politics as Americans despite some efforts to import the culture wars bullshit, fine sandy bottom was referring to actual identities such as Trump or Biden or Dutton and Albo.
Total corporate media capture pulling the wool over eyes of primary voting blocs.
Most of the rest of us are too busy working 3 shit jobs to barely survive to be paying any attention to politics.
This is true. CNN is proof of this.
Oh, the whole world knew about it, except here in 'merica where the media was gonna surprise us after it was installed.
Election news is especially dismal this year considering who the candidates are, so I think a lot of Americans are tuning out until the last minute.
This is a very effective psyops tactic to disengage voters.
Is it? Or is it the fact that we have two terrible options?
Well, one of them has managed quite well for the past few years. Sure he is old. Sure he might die. Is he a bad option because of this? No. He dies, you get Harris. Maybe not exciting but not Republican crazy bad.
And he might not die, he might just keep getting less able to do the job. Either way, that’s really not someone people want to hear all that much about unless they’re already invested in the horse race.
Most people don’t want to hear about crazy grandpa or boring grandpa unless they’re at grandpa’s house.
If might was money, we’d all be rich. He might not. Missunderstand me correctly, I know it’s not optimal and I would have preferred something else. All I’m saying is, there are not two bad choices. Only one bad. The other is eeeeh.
I understand what you’re saying, and if the populace was rational, I’d agree. But they’re not. They see two bad choices and I really don’t think that can solely be blamed on the media. Part of it is just that they’re both really old.
Then we both agree. :)
I tried putting off state and local election stuff until a canvasser came to the door last week and asked about public education funding, because the republican chain all the way up in this state wants nothing but charter schools (along with turning this place into even more of a cesspit). I would’ve found out closer to November, but now it’s going to haunt me for months instead of weeks.
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Because the msm networks won’t cover it, if it’s not on cnn, msnbc, or fox then the majority of Americans will never hear it and won’t believe it if it doesn’t come from those anyway
I’m honestly a little envious.
Im so worried about the state of the world. The slide towards populism. The concentration of wealth. Climate change.
The worry doesn’t achieve anything and doesn’t fill my cup with joy. I wish I could just look at memes about local news and nannas cat or whatever.
So you’re on truth social, the Fox News comments section, OAN, and other far-right American outlets (you know, the people who most need to hear it) saying this too, right? Right? Of course you are. You’d be hypocritical af not to.