The primary driver of support for the Right, all throughout the West, seems to be opposition to immigration. Within that, there are basically two groups: white supremacists, and people who have been conned into seeing migration, rather than economics, as the fundamental cause of their declining living standards.
It seems like this is a wedge issue that any successful populist left movement would need to confront. I guess what I’m wondering is whether it’s possible to resolve in a way that doesn’t abandon leftist values entirely.
Whilst we on the left regard multiculturalism as an inherent good, the reality is, in a democratic sense, it was something imposed from above - and largely as a means of growing the bullshit neoliberal service economy whilst simultaneously undermining working class power. That it was utilised in this way is partly why so many working class people have been able to be led by the media into blaming immigration, rather than economic policy, for declining living standards.
I’m not sure about the US, but in most Western countries the vast majority of immigrants are not refugees. For example, in the UK only 10% are refugees. It is actually nearly impossible for the poor of the developing world to immigrate to most Western countries.
Would it be possible for leftist parties to advocate for reductions in immigration, if that came within the context of increasing refugee intake? Of course there is no necessity for such a policy, nor is it desirable, nor ethical - I’m talking purely in terms of strategic necessity. Or is any kind of kowtowing to anti-immigrant sentiment too great and too dangerous a betrayal of our values? Would any retreat here only be aiding the resurgence of fascism?
I guess I’m thinking about this lately because of whats happening in France - I feel like most Western countries either are or soon will be following that direction. It seems we’re already running out of time, and still nowhere near ready. And I feel like all this anti-immigrant sentiment is the backbone of it, and yet it’s something that people who aren’t far-right are loathe to address. And maybe they’re right not too, maybe their is no possible compromise here. I really don’t know, so just wondering what other people think
First and foremost leftists should not abandon their positions on internationalism (or any other matter) to appease reactionaries. “Strategically” adopting reactionary positions alienates the actual progressive forces that support our effort and the reactionaries still aren’t going to vote for you anyway (see Jamal Bowman recent loss).
The solution to immigration is to stop systemically impoverishing the global south through militarist or economic means (which forces people immigrate from their homelands) and to raise the labor standards of domestic industries that immigrants predominantly work in which would make domestic labor more attractive.
the good news is there is no western left
I just don’t see how the United States can survive without the use of migrant labor, it really is just an unsolvable contradiction. Obviously these people should be liberated from their horrific working conditions, but the idea that they could all just be thrown out is stupid. My family came here to pick vegetables and dig holes for white people, and frankly if they want to do it themselves then have at it, but I’ve never seen it, so that really tells you all you need to know.
Capitalism is what makes immigration a “problem”. Under socialism there cannot possibly be enough hands providing value, everyone is needed in whatever way they can contribute, and in return they will get their work’s worth from social goods that society as a whole produces.
Capitalism on the other hand limits production by producing only whatever is profitable for capitalists with as little workforce they can get away with. The reserve army of unemployed and homeless people are a necessity of the system and a natural result of capitalism.
Sending away people who are willing to provide to society based on their origin country has no place under socialism. Everyone is welcome as long as they provide to their ability, and everyone is given the right to work unlike in capitalism.
Yes I agree with all that, I’m just talking about political strategy within the capitalist system, and in terms of the needs of a populist (rather than revolutionary) left
A populist non revolutionary left only works for the capitalists to capture revolutionary tendencies of the people and direct them in a non dangerous (for them) way.
When it ultimately betrays the people, it will only serve to justify neoliberal policies and fascism.
There’s a reason why socdem is the moderate wing of fascism even if it sounds extreme, there is no room for compromise when it comes to being revolutionary or not.
Ultimately I know and agree with this. But the implication frightens me. When I look at the West it seems like the conditions for revolution, - I suppose for a widespread class consciousness - are very distant. Things would have to get much worse before people understand that capitalism can’t be saved. And people will have to lose a lot more before their ready to fight for something new.
And with climate change and all the other ticking time bombs, it will get worse. But fascism is already here. And this wedge issue of immigration won’t go away. Climate change will cause unprecedented movement of peoples. And the West is already primed to blame their economic hardships on immigrants. So fascism is already stronger and more organised than we are, and the conditions it thrives in are only going to increase.
Maybe once boomers depart the stage then this kind of racism and chauvinism will lose some of its momentum. I hope so.I know I fear the same
I come to terms with it by thinking that the Nazis once seemed inevitable and unbeatable, but they got the
in the end
Well you could get rid of the fear of losing your job to lower wage precarious workers if there was a job guarantee & high minimum wage
Honestly I really don’t know. On a personal level whenever I’ve had people close to me start to go anti-immigrant rants I try and explain some of the systemic issues that contribute to immigration. But most of the time it just feels like it goes in one ear and out the other. It doesn’t help that Western media constantly bombards people with anti-immigrant storylines.
And as others have stated there really isn’t much of a Western “left” anyway, especially in the electoral realm. In the US the Democrats, who are mistakenly labels as the “left”, contribute just as much to the anti-immigrant fervor as the right. I hate to sound doomer-ish, but I don’t really see any group that is nominally left leaning and has enough reach in the US mounting a true alternative to the anti-immigrant sentiment that has been festering and growing. Maybe I’m just surrounded by too many people that have developed anti-immigrant sentiments and its clouding my judgement of the situation.
the only ‘reduction’ in immigration a left party should countenance is the improving of international conditions.
What electoral left?
Well I guess like the left alliance in France or a hypothetical populist left in the style of Corbyn, although even for small left parties like the Greens it might make sense to consider these issues. But to take Corbyn as an example, he did really fuck himself by advocating for a second referendum, whereas the smart thing to do would’ve been to accept the result of the first referendum (ie Brexit) despite the fact that outcome was basically driven by racism
Or it would be better to accept that being a purely electoral parliamentarist who’s entire political existence is unconnected to the body of the working masses and maybe try joining the Reds in building dual-power structures
I’ll make two statements:
-
“Illegal” Immigration is a Red Herring. If governments really cared about “illegal” immigration, they would go after Employers. But (a) politicians shy away from biting the hand that feeds, and (b) the Capitalist sector relies on that cheap labor.
-
Anti-Immigration is False Consciousness. The goal is to deflect popular critique and hostility away from capitalists and towards migrants, and create a hostile atmosphere that effectively disciplines migrant laborers in favor of capitalist exploitation.
Every now and again a conservative government gets too close to the Sun and burn their allies. Alabama and Florida both kicked out migrant workers, with hilariously predictable results and capitulation back to the status quo.
Nevertheless, a variety of employers in Alabama said they have not been able to find enough legal residents to replace the seasoned Hispanic field pickers, drywall hangers, landscapers and poultry workers who fled the state. There was an initial rush of job applications, they said, but many new employees quit or were let go.
and…
SB1718 punishes employers who use undocumented labor and forbids undocumented people from having a driver’s license.
Many local Florida businesses say the new law has led to workers leaving the state, hurting their bottom line. “A lot of people are scared,” says Sanchez. “A lot of people went north and never came back.”
My answer for Leftists is ironically the same for Liberals: Go After The Employers!
-
deleted by creator
Long term, yeah, that is absolutely the solution. But for that to actually wind down immigration to a degree that is undeniable to the populace would take decades, and in the interim a ton of fascists can make their case and rise.
I am going to say something as an immigrant that sounds like I am pulling the ladder up from behind me, but it is something the left needs to hear: it is wrong and harmful to our civil rights and pluralistic cohesion to expect zero assimilation from immigrants and enable them and their kids to exclusively huddle in homogenous enclaves.
My parents moved here from China and took me to many corners of the US to try a bit of everything, they even took me to a pride parade when I was 9 even though they did not personally agree with the “gay lifestyle,” and they had anti-Hispanic and anti-Black prejudices but encouraged me to learn about and appreciate other cultures.
My parents and their immigrant friends came here with the understanding that they were not here to replicate way of life in China and that their kids would not inherit most of their values. Over time as they worked with people of all different backgrounds they grew more tolerant, and upon obtaining their citizenship they took ownership of preserving America as a “melting pot.” One time when my aunt visiting from China said she was scared by black people, my mom cut her off and spoke defensively about how great her black coworkers were.
The Indian friends I grew up with who immigrated at an earlier time also “assimilated” along with their parents; they would be the ones who introduced me to things they discovered like Oaxacan food, and would go on to volunteer as doctors at Planned Parenthood or pro bono lawyers for the marginalized. A Muslim friend of mine who was super conservative and homophobic growing up got way into metal/alt music and its crowd is now an ardent champion of and fundraiser for trans rights.
In growing up in an America that demanded some assimilation, my immigrant friends and I became more liberal and sometimes even outright radical. And when the left talks about “countering anti-immigrant sentiment” the underlying assumption is that it is mainly white people they have to reach, or maybe spoiled and self-hating immigrants.
But check it, it is my Muslim and Indian friends who disdain the Visa mill immigrants coming in who have no expectation of ever going outside the bounds of their enclaves, who carry with them redpill views and behaviors that are not respectful of the common social good like littering and ogling people uncomfortably. It is me who grits my teeth when I see a bunch of Chinese people, some of them my own family, buy up an Ontario neighborhood and vote against allowing the local public schools to teach LGBT history. It is my Vietnamese, Korean, Hispanic, and Persian friends–a few of whom were only able to freely come out because they were immersed in American culture–who view the newer waves of immigrants from their home countries, given little pressure to do any sort of assimilation, as a sort of regression to the backwardness and colorist/racist/sexist/homophobic prejudices of their parents’ generation.
If the left wants to counter anti-immigrant sentiment, we need to honestly confront where all of it comes from and acknowledge that at least some of the pushback is more than just racism, nativism or classicism. The white liberals, and some of the very vocal second gen identitarian outcasts in our groups speak about multiculturalism as if it is almost like segregation, and have very un-nuanced HR-like rules about things like cultural appropriation or respecting others’ cultures.
But in actuality the edges bleeding a bit between the many cultures in America, the occasional misunderstandings resolved through honest if sometimes indelicate questions, being made to engage with cultures and beliefs antithetical to the ones you were raised on, has been a blessing for me and for the march toward progress in America. And I can’t help but feel like the liberals and occasionally leftists of today are fighting tooth and nail to exempt newer waves of immigrants from undergoing this process, while prompting my second gen friends and their first-gen parents to begin souring on more immigration, even if it is from their homelands.
There won’t be any meaningful electoral challenge to this issue from the left. Democrats are falling over themselves to outdo the republicans on tightened borders. Climate change and (other) economic factors will only increase northward population movements. This will lead to increasing popularity of fascist politics. This will lead to wars. Our hope lies in the result of those wars.
