After application of penalties, the final classification order is:
- Verstappen
- Leclerc
- Pérez
- Norris (+1)
- Alonso (+1)
- Sainz (-2)
- Russell (+1)
- Hamilton (-1)
- Stroll (+1)
- Gasly (-1)
- Albon
- Zhou (+2)
- Sargeant
- Ocon (-2)
- Bottas (+1)
- Piastri (+1)
- De Vries (-2)
- Magnussen (+1)
- Tsunoda (-1)
DNF. Hulkenberg
That’s a lot of change. They need to figure something out for the future here as this is just ridiculous
Frankly, they need to figure out something the penalties situation in general. Applying a penalty after the race is finished and they can’t do anything about it is bs. It needs to happen in real time or, at least, during the race
That would just be a monumental undertaking.
They were handing them out during the race but since there were so many and it was constantly happening, there is just no way to hand them out all during the race.
They have to examine each infringement individually and confirm it from multiple angles before making a decision. They don’t hand them out just because a driver from their point of view says the car ahead went off.
In this very instance, it’s up to the team and the driver to make sure they stay within track limits or they face the risk of being penalised and dropped down after the race. For once, I don’t see much fault from Race Directors or the stewards side.
As far as I know, teams can still dispute any penalty, but there is not much point in this situation and FIA can’t just hire 150 stewards to each race JUST IN CASE a massive backlog of infringements like this happens again.
That’s nonsense; computer systems could detect off-track events with extreme accuracy if they cared to build a system.
Cricket has had this for years where a ball knicking a bat or a stump is visible and enforceable by a device sitting on the outside of the cricket field. Same with Tennis that has been policing line and ball for years. The technological challenge has been solved, it’s a matter of will now.
And it wouldn’t be new: motogp uses pressure sensors built into the track since 2021: https://www.rideapart.com/news/497245/motogp-track-limit-sensor-introduced-2021/
I mean, the thing they can do in real time is not routinely go off the track. And if that means fucking up a lap and going slow, then that driver has to accept that they can’t drive quite as fast on this track. If they want to build a new track that’s a couple feet wider on a few corners, go for it - but it wouldn’t be the Redbull Ring. Here, in Austria, you have to go at a speed at which you can stay in between the white lines. Some managed it. No sympathy for those who didn’t, it’s either a choice or a skill issue, neither of which I mind penalising.
Could they just put a gravel trap there instead of a run-off area?
gravel traps are dangerous. They tend to flip over cars if they go sideways into them at a higher speed. Also you have to consider that the RB-Ring also hosts motorcycle races, where gravel traps pose a significant dranger even when just going wide. Also also cars tend to bring back gravel onto the track when making it out of gravel traps, which often require safety cars and disrupting the race.
Fair point, maybe grass (or some kind of carbon fibre F1-spec AstroTurf!) or something else that provides worse grip without the danger?
grass is a bit better, but has it’s own set of problems. It’s expensive to maintain, and it gets slippery when wet, so it can’t stop an out of control car in the rain. My favourite solution would be to have a strip of grass about a cars width right next to the track, followed by an astroturf runoff.
My thoughts as well.
It was a choice. They took the risk that it wouldn’t be penalized, because it probably wouldn’t be.
Showing that it’ll be enforced changes the math for next time.
This is really kind of absurd, giving this kind of penalty after the race makes very little sense.
this is honestly ridiculous. both for the drivers, who can’t keep the car on track, and for the F1 in general.
and what’s up with perez and hamilton claiming he was constantly out?? did FIA just… “forget” about him?
HAM was saying the same about NOR, guess he was exaggerating a bit.
It was pretty clear even from the TV feeds that both of them were going off quite a bit (PER more than NOR, but both too much to ignore).
It takes a certain amount of times going off before you get a warning and then some more before a penalty is applied.
this is nuts, how hard is it to mount 4 extra cameras that do nothing but check whether the 4 tires are beyond the white lines? They already have cameras and sensors galore, adding 4 more so that the drivers, teams and stewards get instant feedback should be possible
How hard is it to simply use the curbs as they did before. Imo doing it like this just makes the racing worse without any actual benefit.
Curbs hurt people, saftey does matter.
What’s the difference between the curbs and the lines? They’re both artificial boundaries.
The white lines are virtually impossible to see from the cockpit while the curbs are easier to see and hence it is easier to judge the position of the car with respect to the curb. Also the putting all 4 wheels on the curb is generally slower than staying on the road so the drivers have have incentive to not cross the curb. This will both limit the number of track limit violations and make the job for both the drivers and race control easier
I can see the logic in what you’re saying, but my concern is that using the curbs leaves things too open to interpretation to be consistent. Curbs aren’t on all parts of the track, and they aren’t the same across all tracks.
Really, the issue of exceeding the white line isn’t a rules issue, it’s a team issue. The teams build and operate their cars around a huge number of regulations. They’ve simply decided that this one doesn’t have enough of an impact to warrant the investment. More races like Austria and they might start to take track limits seriously.
Or, this is a problem specific to the Red Bull Ring and modifying the track will prevent it from reoccuring. I don’t recall this frequency of penalties occuring on other tracks this year.
Considering the teams have regulations on the size of the car and in a ground effect era the cars have to be as low as possible, so I don’t see how teams can improve the white line visibility situation
The cars “have to be as low as possible” just like they “have to stay within track limits”. The reason ride hight is prioritized over visibility is because of the ROI. If penalties for exceeding track limits have enough of an impact, the teams will implement solutions.
Drivers can feel the curbs, they can’t see the white lines.
Right. So, when you feel the curbs you know you’ve exceeded the white lines.
I’ve been all for the track limit enforcement, and I’ve been pleased about the way it’s vern handled during Q and the race.
For it to come to light that RC and the stewards got this so wrong is an absolute disgrace.
Might be better to just use sensors and relax the rules a bit
I think instead of monitoring track limits, they should just put up massive curbs / gravel / grass exactly where the car would be if it went 1cm past track limits. It would stop people taking the piss, stop the stupid penalties, and also make things more exciting when someone did go to far with them then disadvantaged for a straight etc.
Well the issue here might be that this creates a new safety issue as more or less seen when Hamilton and verstappen stacked on each other. I don’t know why they are enforcing these limits. If it’s enforced for nobody there is no unfair advantage to be gained
I don’t think grass or gravel will cause safety issue in the event of an accident. Kerbs yes.
Or simply use the curb and not the white line as a track limit. The white line is impossible to see from the drivers perspective. At least they can feel the curb.
Gravel seems like a good option, not sure how it would affect other motorsports though.
I would prefer gravel too, i think it’s very dangerous for the bikes though which sucks for tracks like Austria which are hosting Moto GP and F1.
Maybe they should simply get screens in the cars or helmets that show them the front tire position. I think it’s also weird af that they can’t automate the detecting and have to have a staff of people just looking at track limits.
It’s very refreshing to see people realizing this more here, instead of constantly repeating this stupid argument of “they are professionals, they should know how to keep it between the lines”.
I think the curbs should be replaced with spike strips. That would incentivize the drivers to stay on the track.
huge for AM and McLaren - gutted for Hamilton
I listened to the podcast Missed Apex, and Spanners suggested so often that the just install sensors that notice of you’re off track. And if they do, reduce power output by a bit. The technology is there, and the instant feedback would prevent this kind of mess.
In past seasons teams were complaining that track limits weren’t being enforced consistently. I guess this is what we get.
Totally bonkers…F1 it’s a joke
