Indeed, even with the additional purchasing power, China’s GDP per person is mediocre, ranking 85th in the world and remaining firmly in line with the world average. Since China’s saving rate is so high, its consumer spending ranks even lower. According to the World Bank, individual consumption came to less than $9,300 in 2021, compared with a global average of $12,950. China’s figure, adjusted for purchasing power, remains lower than equivalent spending in South Africa or Peru.
That’s actually crazy because in a capitalist banking system those funds are ideally reinvested into production via loans to firms. Although this is only because a reserve requirement is in place to limit how much can be lent vs how much there is in deposits.
Holy shit lol, it just shows how skewed American metrics for this shit is. “Chinese people only buy what they need rather than spend frivolously and instead keep savings and that means their economy is weak” is pure capitalism brain bullshit. It just shows how completely illogical the capitalist brain is; why would you buy shit you don’t need rather than just spend what you need to spend and save the rest just in case?
Workers saving and retiring early? How is that good for property owners? They need to keep on working at risk of bankruptcy and homelessness to an early grave.
i think there is still quite a bit of room to go. many of my in-laws are quite frugal and i kid you not they cite decades old periods of food insecurity during their parents (so grandparents) upbringing.
it’s still hard to adapt especially as things change quickly there.
The thing is: why? China is going through deflation. Imagine if you were in that position. You have an income, a job, and savings. On top of that you get to buy everything you need and want, and your money is constantly worth more because everything is cheap and getting cheaper. Why must this supposed frugality disappear when said savings are converted into investment and higher purchasing power for everybody?
It’s only NFT level economies that need to blow 20 credit cards a month to keep up with rent.
fair, perhaps i could explain where i am coming from? i completely agree with what you said, i had in mind smaller purchases…
for example i use an imported xiaomi phone made for the domestic market. there are skins and customization options that are a few yuan, at first i thought it was like gas stations in amerika where there are intrusive ads which seep into every moment of your life. i was disappointed, though i was comfortable knowing minors were at least largely protected due to regulations.
as i became more familiar with apps (not just xiaomi) and purchased digital and physical products i noticed the paltry sums using the theme example as before, not priced in anyway similar to here in the imperial core. rather as i engaged with the smaller creator-focused communities i understood it was to compensate the creators for their work (i.e. labor)
i was astonished, not only were there more options, many much higher quality than an equivalent in the west, they were priced extremely fairly too. i wanted to pay to support these individuals or groups creating wonderful art without predatory pricing which is what i often experienced outside of the domestic market of china.
it really felt like i was not “doing business” and “trying to get a good deal” but i was simply interacting in a community. i have the same sentiment in farmers markets (though in the last decade that too has become corporate) in the imperial core.
i also purchased the m$ office equivalent and tencent cloud, the prices are ridiculously fair, to the point i wonder how they make any money… im given a better service (not in all areas of software, mind you, but for the most essential) and experience and everything software-wise at least has a limited free option which is sorta feature complete.
it feels like how shareware was back in the day or how some current independent devs are, except it’s front and center rather than hidden behind seo hodgepodge.
Sorry to respond with such a small take but my impression is that the ecosystem you engaged with benefits from the socialist system preventing the worst of nickle and diming.
And I do think they make lots of money. Wether you’re big tech, big pharma or big food - your market is billions strong. A small profit margin within a socialist market system is more than enough to maintain the capitalist class and ensure investment too.
More importantly: if you live within this market your expenses in dollar terms will be way undercounted.
Per capita spending is a red herring. Much of the total spending is outside of the consumer sphere. If a nation builds a low-cost rail system that can transport people more cheaply than, say, an outdated domestic airline industry — is that nation poorer than one which has a less efficient infrastructure?
Obviously, if the question is which country is more modern and more developed, then the nation with more efficient and reliable infrastructure is superior.
If the goal is to turn an inefficient and aging society into a good thing, then you abstract from the necessity of all costs, and regard every cost as a benefit, regardless of whether that cost was necessary.
Decrying the excessive savings rates of Chinese
Savings are seen as inefficiency because it’s money that large capitalists aren’t able to suck out of the workers.
That’s actually crazy because in a capitalist banking system those funds are ideally reinvested into production via loans to firms. Although this is only because a reserve requirement is in place to limit how much can be lent vs how much there is in deposits.
Holy shit lol, it just shows how skewed American metrics for this shit is. “Chinese people only buy what they need rather than spend frivolously and instead keep savings and that means their economy is weak” is pure capitalism brain bullshit. It just shows how completely illogical the capitalist brain is; why would you buy shit you don’t need rather than just spend what you need to spend and save the rest just in case?
Workers saving and retiring early? How is that good for property owners? They need to keep on working at risk of bankruptcy and homelessness to an early grave.
deleted by creator
i think there is still quite a bit of room to go. many of my in-laws are quite frugal and i kid you not they cite decades old periods of food insecurity during their parents (so grandparents) upbringing.
it’s still hard to adapt especially as things change quickly there.
The thing is: why? China is going through deflation. Imagine if you were in that position. You have an income, a job, and savings. On top of that you get to buy everything you need and want, and your money is constantly worth more because everything is cheap and getting cheaper. Why must this supposed frugality disappear when said savings are converted into investment and higher purchasing power for everybody?
It’s only NFT level economies that need to blow 20 credit cards a month to keep up with rent.
fair, perhaps i could explain where i am coming from? i completely agree with what you said, i had in mind smaller purchases…
for example i use an imported xiaomi phone made for the domestic market. there are skins and customization options that are a few yuan, at first i thought it was like gas stations in amerika where there are intrusive ads which seep into every moment of your life. i was disappointed, though i was comfortable knowing minors were at least largely protected due to regulations.
as i became more familiar with apps (not just xiaomi) and purchased digital and physical products i noticed the paltry sums using the theme example as before, not priced in anyway similar to here in the imperial core. rather as i engaged with the smaller creator-focused communities i understood it was to compensate the creators for their work (i.e. labor)
i was astonished, not only were there more options, many much higher quality than an equivalent in the west, they were priced extremely fairly too. i wanted to pay to support these individuals or groups creating wonderful art without predatory pricing which is what i often experienced outside of the domestic market of china.
it really felt like i was not “doing business” and “trying to get a good deal” but i was simply interacting in a community. i have the same sentiment in farmers markets (though in the last decade that too has become corporate) in the imperial core.
i also purchased the m$ office equivalent and tencent cloud, the prices are ridiculously fair, to the point i wonder how they make any money… im given a better service (not in all areas of software, mind you, but for the most essential) and experience and everything software-wise at least has a limited free option which is sorta feature complete.
it feels like how shareware was back in the day or how some current independent devs are, except it’s front and center rather than hidden behind seo hodgepodge.
Sorry to respond with such a small take but my impression is that the ecosystem you engaged with benefits from the socialist system preventing the worst of nickle and diming.
And I do think they make lots of money. Wether you’re big tech, big pharma or big food - your market is billions strong. A small profit margin within a socialist market system is more than enough to maintain the capitalist class and ensure investment too.
More importantly: if you live within this market your expenses in dollar terms will be way undercounted.
Per capita spending is a red herring. Much of the total spending is outside of the consumer sphere. If a nation builds a low-cost rail system that can transport people more cheaply than, say, an outdated domestic airline industry — is that nation poorer than one which has a less efficient infrastructure?
Obviously, if the question is which country is more modern and more developed, then the nation with more efficient and reliable infrastructure is superior.
If the goal is to turn an inefficient and aging society into a good thing, then you abstract from the necessity of all costs, and regard every cost as a benefit, regardless of whether that cost was necessary.
South Africa and Peru, countries that are notoriously doing great
Peru is basically a series of latifundia in trenchcoat