• Milk_Sheikh@lemm.ee
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    8 months ago

    Web search is failing me for a primary source under the deluge of web/pop culture fascination with katanas, but I swear I’ve read that their primary killing tool in battle was the Yumi bow, usually fired from horseback.

    Guns displaced every warrior-caste from multiple different societies; the samurai held on to power through arms control first for swords, then later guns once the colonial powers forced Japan to end its self imposed isolation.

    • snooggums@midwest.social
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      8 months ago

      Bows (or other projectiles) and spears ruled the battlefield in Japan and everywhere else on the planet when combat was primarily hand to hand. Sometimes there were situations where swords or maces and other close in weapons had the advantage, but in general killing someone from a distance with a weapon that could be primarily made of wood and relatively simple is just going to be the most commonky used tool of war.

      Romans, known for the gladius short sword, would initially start combat with slings, javelins, and spears. They only switched to swords up close. Same for samurai.

      • TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world
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        8 months ago

        primarily made of wood and relatively simple

        Also, less maintenance/ material required for its creation.

        A spear point with a couple of langets is something a blacksmith can knock out by the hour. Good swords take longer and are more technical to make. You break your spear shaft in training? Well tough as, but you can find a suitable replacement and remount it on campaign.

      • AnUnusualRelic@lemmy.world
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        8 months ago

        The sword has always been the last option as a weapon. Like a handgun would be today. A spear would always be preferred.

      • captainlezbian@lemmy.world
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        8 months ago

        Even more than that, while we think of the gladius as their iconic weapon, the only weapon that served for the entire history of the Roman military is the bronze spear, though it eventually became ceremonial.

        Swords are flashy and the weapon of a noble in town, as they’re expensive, high skill, and a reasonable sidearm for relative safety. They weren’t replaced in function by the rifle, but by the pistol. This is actually quite similar to the mindset of revolvers in the American west. The primary armament of that period’s conflicts was the lever action rifle, but the revolver was better in town.

    • Cypher@lemmy.world
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      8 months ago

      Nobunaga is literally the most successful of the Japanese warlords because he looted a Spanish merchant vessel and obtained guns and powder.

      Then he did everything possible to get more.

      This narrative that evil Europeans forced them to use guns is absurd.

      • Milk_Sheikh@lemm.ee
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        8 months ago

        You’re right, that last sentence was ham fisted - I was referring to the gunboat diplomacy opening the trade free for all after decades of isolation, not colonial annexation.

      • EldritchFeminity@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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        8 months ago

        It’s more that guns were hard to get until the British and Americans forced Japan to open its borders. They were generally imported through the Spanish/Portuguese, or the Dutch after they established trade relations. Even after they started making their own matchlocks, I believe they were only produced in small batches due to the high percentage of impurities in Japan’s iron deposits.

  • vanderbilt@lemmy.world
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    8 months ago

    It’s rather complicated. In the “in-between” times, firearms were considered a coward’s weapon, making the user a “sniper” and thus less honorable than those who used more traditional arms. This faded with time however, as most ideas do.

  • NigelFrobisher@aussie.zone
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    8 months ago

    Longbow was the main battle weapon of samurai. Even after firearms, which they got the peasants to stand in a line and fire volleys just like in the West.

      • reliv3@lemmy.world
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        8 months ago

        Reading your links, the correction you made seems semantically insignificant. Yumi is the word for “bow” in Japanese and longbows describe bows that are long. Longbows are not unique to the English, and there are a lot of bows that can be described as longbows. So my point is, if samurais used yumis that are long (which some did) then saying they used longbows is not incorrect. Nevertheless, thank you for letting us know what the Japanese called their bows, it was educational.

        • Paddzr@lemmy.world
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          8 months ago

          As someone who did archery at national level… Your comment is triggering my need to point out how difficult and different “longbows” are.

          I couldn’t handle it after years of playing. The term longbow in archery is as calling everything AR15.

          • reliv3@lemmy.world
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            8 months ago

            That’s pretty cool that you did archery at a national level.

            Respectfully, I still think that I am correctly interpretting the information on the Wikipedia links sourced above. I’m basing my conclusion off two pieces of evidence. The longbow wiki page linked above mentions that longbows existed in “many cultures”, and there is a separate Wikipedia page for the English Longbow. This pushes me to conclude that there is a symantical difference between the two terms, “longbow” and “English Longbow” though many people assume the latter when the former is mentioned.

        • lapislazuli@sopuli.xyz
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          8 months ago

          Yes, there have been bows that are long, but not like the longbow. As you say, the longbow was used to shoot volleys, while the yumi could also be used on horseback. The longbow had a very heavy draw weight, around 90-120 lbs. That’s the weight you have to pull to get it at full draw. The yumi possibly had a a lower draw weight (although Korean and Mongolian and Turkish composite bows had draw weights of around 100 lbs as well, and they were mainly used on horseback). Again, the yumi has a shorter lower limb which meant it could be used on horseback (and it was) while there is no way a longbow could have. So the longbow and the yumi are very different technically.

          • reliv3@lemmy.world
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            8 months ago

            Very interesting indeed. Thanks for sharing. I’m just pointing out that people are assuming “English Longbow” when saying “longbow”. Which, to be fair to these folks, the English Longbow is likely the most famous longbow in history. Nevertheless, even the Wikipedia page sourced above mentions that longbows existed in “many cultures” and there is a separate Wikipedia page for the English Longbow. This pushes me to conclude that there is a symantical difference between the two terms, “longbow” and “English Longbow” though many people assume the latter when the former is mentioned.

        • lud@lemm.ee
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          8 months ago

          used in English, yumi refers more specifically to traditional Japanese asymmetrical bows, and includes the longer daikyū (大弓) and the shorter hankyū (半弓) used in the practice of kyūdō and kyūjutsu, or Japanese archery.

            • lud@lemm.ee
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              8 months ago

              No, every language does similar things about loads of similar shit.

              You are just annoyed that you didn’t think of reading beyond the first sentence, lol.

              • Kusimulkku@lemm.ee
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                8 months ago

                I’ve actually read the whole article before. I was a weeb once…

  • captainlezbian@lemmy.world
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    8 months ago

    Yeah they were soldiers. Alexander the Great had engineers in his army for a reason. Genghis Kahn would lose his shit over a magnum gun.