Imagine Russia not having it’s shit together enough to put down a mutiny from a mercenary group.
We know Russia’s military is a disorganized mess. Even a well-organized military can struggle with getting up to date information from the front lines. A military in an authoritarian country where people are afraid of giving their leader bad news?
Yeah, Putin doesn’t know what’s going on in Ukraine. Best to keep him thinking that The glorious Russian Army has destroyed 4000 Leopard 2 tanks today and the Ukrainian counter offensive has been a complete failure, just as his staff is telling him.
You must inhabit an alternate universe where Russia didn’t put down the mutiny of a mercenary group under 24 hours without bloodshed. Meanwhile, Russia’s military is such a disorganized west that Ukraine ran into a wall trying to do their offensive after being pump full of the best weapons the west has to offer. One has to be utterly delusional to think that an offensive that failed to reach the first line of defence after 4 weeks is anything but a complete failure. Here’s how things were expected to go by the way https://foreignpolicy.com/2023/04/18/ukraine-russia-war-counteroffensive-attack-bakhmut-himars/
What demands of Prigozhin did they give in to, be specific. Last I checked his demands were that Shoigu and Gerasimov have to be replaced. Last I checked they’re still in the same positions they were in, but maybe you know something I don’t? Or more likely you have no clue regarding the topic you’re attempting to debate.
Generally when there’s a coup, those complicit either go to prison or are executed.
After this “failed coup”, Prigozhin can go back to Africa with the men loyal to him. He avoids having to be in the front lines during the Ukrainian counter offensive and does so while appearing strong. I suspect Prigozhin has a better sense of how the Ukrainian counter offensive will go than you do. He avoids a possible collapse of the Russian Federation. When things go badly for Russia, he can say he warned everyone, and did what he could to prevent it. When the Putin regime collapses he will be well regarded in Russia.
And that’s just the parts of the deal that are publicly known.
Meanwhile what did Putin get? One day he addressed the nation and declared Prigozhin a criminal and terrorist. Then the next day Prigozhin marches on Moscow. Then suddenly all is forgiven, Prigozhin and Wagner are not criminals and terrorists. Kinda a bad look isn’t it? Just letting criminals and terrorists off the hook like that?
Seems the only thing Putin got was he didn’t get removed from power. And even that’s not certain… has Putin been seen publicly since his address where he declared Prigozhin a back-stabbing criminal? I guess we’ll have to wait and see…
That’s a lot of words to say that none of the demands were met. What Putin got was to avoid bloodshed, keep wagner and subordinate it to MoD by forcing it into official contracts with the MoD. Cleaned house by ferreting out any elements in the government or military that were supportive of a coup. I suspect that you are huffing copium at a faster rate than Ukraine is losing leopards in their offensive. 😂
Yeah, sure Putin intentionally wanted to be humiliated by Prigozhin because there’s a 5000-D chess strategy that only you can understand.
Russia is a sinking ship. Prigozhin is a rat jumping off it before it goes down. He’s been to the front lines, he knows what’s coming better than you do.
But sure, Russian state news says that the glorious Red Army destroyed 4000 Leopard Tanks today. Just keep believing the TV while you see the people that have actually been to the front lines getting the fuck out of there any way they can.
@yogthos@SpaceCowboy Pffft… they didn’t “put down” a mutiny. The Dictator of Belarus did. Putin is a weak ass coward and won’t be in power much longer.
That’s certainly an interpretation. Using this logic all of NATO is pretty weak since it takes all of NATO to provide the hodgepodge of support needed to prop up Ukraine in the war.
@yogthos Oh… the big bad NATO. Like NATO is the one trying to take over sovereign countries by force. NATO has never invaded another country without legitimate reasoning accepted by the world community. For example, Georgie, Estonia, and Ukraine have never been invaded by NATO but they have been by Russia on a whim. So, who is the real aggressor?
Somebody should let Yugoslavia, Libya, Syria, and Afghanistan know that NATO doesn’t invade sovereign countries. The sheer amount of ignorance required to make this statement is absolutely stunning.
@yogthos It’s amazing that you completely misunderstood what I said. I said they don’t do it without reasons that are accepted by the world community. And… after they’re done, they leave. They don’t annex the land… like Russia. They’re not doing it for conquest as Russia does.
Imagine Russia not having it’s shit together enough to put down a mutiny from a mercenary group.
We know Russia’s military is a disorganized mess. Even a well-organized military can struggle with getting up to date information from the front lines. A military in an authoritarian country where people are afraid of giving their leader bad news?
Yeah, Putin doesn’t know what’s going on in Ukraine. Best to keep him thinking that The glorious Russian Army has destroyed 4000 Leopard 2 tanks today and the Ukrainian counter offensive has been a complete failure, just as his staff is telling him.
You must inhabit an alternate universe where Russia didn’t put down the mutiny of a mercenary group under 24 hours without bloodshed. Meanwhile, Russia’s military is such a disorganized west that Ukraine ran into a wall trying to do their offensive after being pump full of the best weapons the west has to offer. One has to be utterly delusional to think that an offensive that failed to reach the first line of defence after 4 weeks is anything but a complete failure. Here’s how things were expected to go by the way https://foreignpolicy.com/2023/04/18/ukraine-russia-war-counteroffensive-attack-bakhmut-himars/
I like how you used west as a synonym for west. I mean mess. Damn, it’s catchy, Yog “Samuel Johnson” Thos. Chefs’ kiss.
Yeah they “put down” Wagner by giving in to the demands of Prigozhin. That’s what happened in the universe I inhabit.
Putin was humiliated and proven to be weak.
Sorry that the great Red Army reborn turned out to be more like the army of Czar Nicholas II in 1917.
What demands of Prigozhin did they give in to, be specific. Last I checked his demands were that Shoigu and Gerasimov have to be replaced. Last I checked they’re still in the same positions they were in, but maybe you know something I don’t? Or more likely you have no clue regarding the topic you’re attempting to debate.
Generally when there’s a coup, those complicit either go to prison or are executed.
After this “failed coup”, Prigozhin can go back to Africa with the men loyal to him. He avoids having to be in the front lines during the Ukrainian counter offensive and does so while appearing strong. I suspect Prigozhin has a better sense of how the Ukrainian counter offensive will go than you do. He avoids a possible collapse of the Russian Federation. When things go badly for Russia, he can say he warned everyone, and did what he could to prevent it. When the Putin regime collapses he will be well regarded in Russia.
And that’s just the parts of the deal that are publicly known.
Meanwhile what did Putin get? One day he addressed the nation and declared Prigozhin a criminal and terrorist. Then the next day Prigozhin marches on Moscow. Then suddenly all is forgiven, Prigozhin and Wagner are not criminals and terrorists. Kinda a bad look isn’t it? Just letting criminals and terrorists off the hook like that?
Seems the only thing Putin got was he didn’t get removed from power. And even that’s not certain… has Putin been seen publicly since his address where he declared Prigozhin a back-stabbing criminal? I guess we’ll have to wait and see…
That’s a lot of words to say that none of the demands were met. What Putin got was to avoid bloodshed, keep wagner and subordinate it to MoD by forcing it into official contracts with the MoD. Cleaned house by ferreting out any elements in the government or military that were supportive of a coup. I suspect that you are huffing copium at a faster rate than Ukraine is losing leopards in their offensive. 😂
Yeah, sure Putin intentionally wanted to be humiliated by Prigozhin because there’s a 5000-D chess strategy that only you can understand.
Russia is a sinking ship. Prigozhin is a rat jumping off it before it goes down. He’s been to the front lines, he knows what’s coming better than you do.
But sure, Russian state news says that the glorious Red Army destroyed 4000 Leopard Tanks today. Just keep believing the TV while you see the people that have actually been to the front lines getting the fuck out of there any way they can.
whatever helps you sleep at night I suppose
@yogthos @SpaceCowboy Pffft… they didn’t “put down” a mutiny. The Dictator of Belarus did. Putin is a weak ass coward and won’t be in power much longer.
Oh hey, remind me how Lukashenko survived a coup again, oh that’s right Russia got involved.
@yogthos Exactly, which pretty much tells you that neither can stand on their own feet. They have to prop each other up. Weak.
That’s certainly an interpretation. Using this logic all of NATO is pretty weak since it takes all of NATO to provide the hodgepodge of support needed to prop up Ukraine in the war.
@yogthos Oh… the big bad NATO. Like NATO is the one trying to take over sovereign countries by force. NATO has never invaded another country without legitimate reasoning accepted by the world community. For example, Georgie, Estonia, and Ukraine have never been invaded by NATO but they have been by Russia on a whim. So, who is the real aggressor?
Somebody should let Yugoslavia, Libya, Syria, and Afghanistan know that NATO doesn’t invade sovereign countries. The sheer amount of ignorance required to make this statement is absolutely stunning.
@yogthos It’s amazing that you completely misunderstood what I said. I said they don’t do it without reasons that are accepted by the world community. And… after they’re done, they leave. They don’t annex the land… like Russia. They’re not doing it for conquest as Russia does.