• Bernie_Sandals@lemmy.world
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    7 months ago

    Socialist Party of America, Socialist Alternative, The Communist Party of the USA, and plenty others have been trying to run left of the Democratic Party for a century, it won’t work in a FPTP voting system, converting the Democrats into a Socialist party would literally be easier.

    If you want a left wing party other than the Dems, you’re gonna have to change FPTP first.

    • Eldritch@lemmy.world
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      7 months ago

      Or or, and hear me out here. We could do what has happened many different times throughout history. And take over/replace the structure of a party. The Democrats already ignore state and local elections across several red states. What if we lefties/socialist/etc instead of trying to prop up separate parties and separate candidates that always fail. Fielded our own candidates who more closely match our own ideals. And run them as Democrats in these areas. Focusing on funding them ourselves as well as whatever money the DNC apparatus might provide. We might actually start winning. And if we start winning we might actually be able to replace those in the DNC. And if we replace those in the DNC. Things might actually get better.

        • Bernie_Sandals@lemmy.world
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          7 months ago

          Yeah it was, but they added more context on how it was possible, so I wouldn’t really say it was redundant.

        • metaldream@sopuli.xyz
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          7 months ago

          Succeeding? They’ve elected a tiny handful of candidates over the last thirty years so now that’s success? Lol, sounds like something a right wing Democrat would say, because that’s a very convenient result for the party itself. You’re either blindly loyal to this party or you must think we’re stupid.

          • Bernie_Sandals@lemmy.world
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            7 months ago

            They’ve elected a tiny handful of candidates over the last thirty years so now that’s success?

            Almost all of which were elected in the past decade, that’s rather quick for a political change as large as that. And more are being elected every year.

            The DSA literally helped Bernie almost win the presidential primary, that wouldn’t of even come close to happening if the average Democrat was some right wing anti-socialist hawk.

              • Bernie_Sandals@lemmy.world
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                7 months ago

                When the military is deployed to crush protestors and trans people have their existence banned by Trump I’ll know who to thank.

                Kinda weird yall insist on calling him Genocide Joe.

                • juicy@lemmy.today
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                  7 months ago

                  I don’t care what nonsense falls out of his demented mouth as long as he is sending bombs to an ongoing genocide

                  • Bernie_Sandals@lemmy.world
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                    7 months ago

                    Do you really and honestly believe that Joe Biden Is so evil that he’s been sitting there relishing in the deaths of civilians for months?

                    And you do realize that sending weapons is not the sole discretion of the president? About 75% if congress keeps voting to send those weapons.

            • juicy@lemmy.today
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              7 months ago

              Everyone has purity tests, everyone has red lines. None are more reasonable than genocide.

              • Bernie_Sandals@lemmy.world
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                7 months ago

                She said it was a humanitarian catastrophe from day one of the invasion and called for an immediate ceasefire soon after. Just because she didn’t use the exact word you want, a hugely legally binding and implicating one too mind you, you’re willing to write her off?

                You do realize that if that is your standard then literally no member of congress or in the executive is good enough for you, right?

                Not to mention that it’d be hugely irresponsible for any government official to make a comment like that before the ICC ruling is actually finished.

                • juicy@lemmy.today
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                  7 months ago

                  You think it’s irresponsible to call this a genocide before the ICC comes to a verdict in 20 years?

    • givesomefucks@lemmy.world
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      7 months ago

      converting the Democrats into a Socialist party would literally be easier.

      They’re a private organization…

      They’ll keep doing whatever they want without changing as long as people keep voting for him.

      The only thing the DNC has that a different private party wouldn’t is momentum.

      If they just gonna keep following the rnc, we have no choice but acknowledging we were abandoned long ago already

      • dariusj18@lemmy.world
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        7 months ago

        The DNC is a national political party organization. Every four years the entire party is reorganized from the ground up. It’s actually a pretty well created organizational system, the only people who really removed about it are they keyboard warriors who have no understanding of it or the crazies who cannot fathom why they need other people to agree with them.

        • Viking_Hippie@lemmy.world
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          7 months ago

          The DNC is a national political party organization

          Nope, it’s a private for-profit corporation masquerading as a political party.

          That’s how they’re legally registered and that’s how they were able to argue in court that they can rig the primaries or even just directly appointment nominees if they want to

          Every four years the entire party is reorganized from the ground up

          How adorably naive you are! 🥹

          Biden and the rest of the leadership are part of a clique who took over the party in 1992 and never let go. Maybe some of the names and faces change, but the governing and campaign philosophies haven’t changed since then and won’t no matter how much the people they’re supposed to represent do.

          It’s actually a pretty well created organizational system well-orchestrated political and financial machine

          Fixed it for you

          the only people who really removed about it are they keyboard warriors who have no understanding of it people who understand how it ACTUALLY works and would prefer a more open, honest and representative party

          the crazies who cannot fathom why they need other people to agree with them.

          Yeah, because the Democratic Party operates based on pure consensus of the voters and never act against the will of the people for profit or to maintain the status quo… 🙄

          Are you being paid or are you gaslighting for free?

          • Bernie_Sandals@lemmy.world
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            7 months ago

            Pelosi doesn’t pick who can enter or who wins a primary, none of the Democratic leadership does. That’s the donor class at best, but even they can get steamrolled over as the left should’ve learned with AOC and Crowley.

        • metaldream@sopuli.xyz
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          7 months ago

          It’s so pathetic how you all try to convince us that the Dems are a fairly run grassroots organization when we all know that’s complete bullshit. The second there’s a real threat to the party leadership they can and will change the rules with zero options for recourse through the courts. They’ve done it multiple times before and they will do it again.

          At this point I have to assume you have malicious intent towards leftist voters because this is just blatant gaslighting.

      • Bernie_Sandals@lemmy.world
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        7 months ago

        The Democratic Party and the DNC and all the affiliates are nothing more than tools for whatever vaguely left of american center interest group wants to use them.

        There’s no massive conspiracy to keep the Democrats Neoliberal, and if there is anything even similar to that, it’s happening behind closed doors in Wall Street, not Washington.

        They’ll keep doing whatever they want without changing as long as people keep voting for him.

        How long have you been involved in politics? I dont mean for that to sound demeaning. We’ve gone from Neoliberal democrats and Clinton gutting social welfare in the 90s to Socialists being integrated into the broader coalition, both parties have changed and will continue to change immensely over time. Ignoring that because you’re upset about Bernie losing the primary in 2016 and 2020 and disconnecting completely from the party is just a ticket to irrelevance, and I say that as someone who worked on some of Bernie’s first barnstorm events and both presidential campaigns.

        • dariusj18@lemmy.world
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          7 months ago

          It’s funny the way this thread went. I don’t think people paid attention to how much the Democratic party changed after 2016 after the Bernie peeps found out about how the party is actually structured. But there ended up being 3 types of new grassroots activists.

          1. The ones that quickly found out that the DNC isn’t some authoritarian regime who instead pulled up their seat at the table and effected change.
          2. The ones that quickly found out that the DNC isn’t some authoritarian regime and who wouldn’t compromise with anyone and quickly became irrelevant but still cried that the system was still rigged (while their compatriots looked on in disgust lamenting the extra power to affect change they would have if they would vote as a block).
          3. Those who got in and then tried to pull the ladder up to prevent themselves from losing their position the same way they accused others of doing.
          • Bernie_Sandals@lemmy.world
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            7 months ago

            Completely agree, I really don’t know why these people think the DNC is some massive evil force trying to crush the grassroots leftie activism.

            I’m pasting this from one of my earlier comments, but I feel like it’s incredibly relevant.

            If you don’t like the policies of the moderate Democrats then volunteer for your local party, most of the people running your county party are old as fuck, that’s one of the main problems with the Dems. Vote in every single primary for the most progressive option. Donate to and volunteer for your progressive state representatives/senators. Help your coworkers organize a union and increase your lobbying power. Join a progressive/socialist election work group like Progressive Victory or any of the countless others. If you aren’t doing at least one of these regularly, then you have no right to complain that the party isn’t listening to you. You’ve given them no reason to.

            I deeply feel that none of the people in this thread commenting about the malevolent DNC have done these, and kept doing them since the Bernie campaigns.

        • metaldream@sopuli.xyz
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          7 months ago

          I love how democrats just throw out the word “conspiracy” whenever they’re trying to make rational ideas sound crazy.

          There is no “conspiracy” to keep the dnc neoliberal. They do it right out in the fucking open and they couldn’t be more clear about it.

          The current Dem leader in the house is an actual public school buster with direct ties to private school corporations yet we still have blatant shills like you trying to gaslight us into believing that the democrats aren’t intentionally pro-corporate neoliberals. That’s fucking hilarious.

          • Bernie_Sandals@lemmy.world
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            7 months ago

            There is no “conspiracy” to keep the dnc neoliberal. They do it right out in the fucking open and they couldn’t be more clear about it.

            That would still be a conspiracy, I never said it was a conspiracy theory. But if having Caucus leadership of a certain ideology makes the entire party that ideology, let’s look at the largest democratic caucus and who leads it

            https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congressional_Progressive_Caucus

            Well look at that, it’s the largest caucus of the Democratic Party and its literally lead by a socialist. The entire democratic party must be socialist /s.

            We are definitely trying to fight with capitalists over who “owns” the party right now, but walking away from the fight now and trying the same thing the CPUSA and SPA have been trying for a century would be stupid.

      • Bernie_Sandals@lemmy.world
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        7 months ago

        Lmfao, yeah how long has that been the case? Since they realized I was right and switched to endorsing leftist dems and protesting?

    • metaldream@sopuli.xyz
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      7 months ago

      Nope, party flips have happened before and they will happen again. You sound extremely condescending for someone who doesn’t know nearly as much they think they do.

      The Democratic Party is run by deeply monied interests. You well never succeed in “converting” it to socialism. and no, getting a handful of candidates like AOC elected over the course of a few decades doesn’t show that you can. It actually proves the opposite point.

      Today’s Democratic Party is more conservative than ever so all of you claiming we can convert are either incredibly naive, or deliberately trying to sabotage leftist movements.

      • Bernie_Sandals@lemmy.world
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        7 months ago

        The Democratic Party is run by deeply monied interests.

        You ever seen proof for this or did you just hear it and it sounded right?

        Today’s Democratic Party is more conservative than ever so all of you claiming we can convert are either incredibly naive, or deliberately trying to sabotage leftist movements.

        Lmfao the Democratic Party used to be the part of Slavery and Segregation, and then what do you know, one of those party flips you literally mentioned happened and they became the ones spearheading the fight for civil rights in Congress. I see no reason the same can’t happen around capitalism.

          • Bernie_Sandals@lemmy.world
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            7 months ago

            Sure you can say that, but half the party supports a ceasefire, the entire republican party would glass gaza from orbit given a chance.

      • Cryophilia@lemmy.world
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        7 months ago

        Today’s Democratic Party is more conservative than ever

        Biden just called Trans people part of the fabric of our nation rofl what the fuck are you on about

        Inb4 “well that doesn’t count” lol