- cross-posted to:
- globalpolitics@lemmy.world
- worldnews@lemmygrad.ml
- cross-posted to:
- globalpolitics@lemmy.world
- worldnews@lemmygrad.ml
You must log in or # to comment.
Liberals: “If the Russians take over Ukraine, they will commit horrible atrocities that will cascade through history”
Also, Liberals: “Yes, send out another shipment of fragmentation mines, cluster bombs, and nerve gas. You know. To make Ukraine better.”
Also, also, Liberals: “Double that order and ship it to Israel”
it must be such a relief to not believe in anything, you can just spout the wildest most horrific bloodthirsty shit, but still be a pacifist somehow
The bloodthirstiness of the “I always abhor violence in all its forms.” libs is terrifying.
President Volodymyr Zelensky delivered a stark message to Congress in an interview on Thursday as Russian missiles were pounding southern Ukraine: Give us the weapons to stop the Russian attacks, or Ukraine will escalate its counterattacks on Russia’s airfields, energy facilities and other strategic targets.
“give us more weapons or we’re going to attack Russia”
lolwut. why wouldnt you just do that regardless? life is rough for a CIA asset who isn’t allowed to surrender.
The USA instructed them to stop attacking Russian oil refineries because it was fucking with the price of oil in an election year.
In effect, they’re telling the US they will fuck with the pump price of gas if they don’t get a more bombs.
that explains the energy facilities and other strategic targets part, not sure why they would stop attacking airfields though, seems like Ukraine should want to do that either way.
Yeah in the abstract it makes sense but it is in the context of demanding ammunition for front line needs, so posing these secondary and tertiary targets as a “supply us or else we will do this” pretty much reveals the game.
In the context of begging for weapons to stabilize a collapsing front line, then prioritizing secondary targets like airfields and tertiary targets like oil refineries doesn’t actually make much sense.
It reminds me of the Germans investing massive resources to the V2 rocket program to strike London. At face value it might seem impressive to be able to strike your enemy’s capital but when you look at the competing strategic concerns Germany was facing at the time, you quickly realize it was a move of desperate impotency.
For Ukraine to pose this as an “or else” to the west like this makes it clear to me they’re playing a kind of brinksmanship.
Supply us or else we will seek to drag you into this anyway. Supply us or else we escalate the war with Russia at a point when we are already losing. Supply us or else we make it untenable for Russia to have a negotiated peace, making this a war of annihilation - meaning you will have to deal with the prospect of Kyiv and Lviv eventually being occupied. Supply us or else we will maximize the cost of Ukraine losing this war and make you pick up the tab.
Supply us or else we will continue targeting strategically close-to-meaningless oil refineries for the sole effect of jacking the price of oil for you.
It’s all about Ukraine seeking to desperately avert impending military collapse and seeking to avert it by maximizing the cost of that failure to the west.
Ukraine is seeking to change the calculus: Supply us with your weapons or will make sure you have to use them anyway, so your cost-benefit analysis will force you to give them to us now.
Brinksmanship played against their benefactors. Something something biting the hand because it stopped feeding you.
I guess in the abstract it makes sense. Like, if someone is attacking you with planes it makes sense to target their airfields.
But when you add the context that they lack the weapons to target front line targets, then it begs the question why prioritize secondary targets like supporting infrastructure and tertiary targets like energy?
It’s like the V2 rocket program in WW2. The fact Germany could still hit London sounds impressive but when you actually think about why the Germans were pursuing that option instead of devoting the resources to more strategically important concerns and the desperation of the move reveals itself.
This is all to say that sure it makes sense in the abstract to target your enemies infrastructure during war but when you choose those targets instead of the front line, and what’s more you say it as some kind of threat to your would-be suppliers (“supply us or else we will do this”) then it’s revealing quite a lot about their desperation, about their strategic priorities, about their true relationship with their primary allies, and it points towards a kind of brinksmanship in which Ukraine is looking basically threatening to escalate the war into an actual NATO-Russia confrontation or is threatening to trigger economic hardship on its allies if they don’t supply another army worth of gear.
So now Ukraine is threatening to interfere with the election to tip it against Biden and in favor of dRumpf! Russia has already won! /lib
What an incredible strategy, though. “If you cut off your support for us, we will launch a massive hail marry in an attempt to get Russia to initiate MAD and kill the entire world including you.”
Zelensky threatening to reveal his Final Form now that you’ve defeated him three times already
I found a YouTube link in your comment. Here are links to the same video on alternative frontends that protect your privacy:
He really was a stand-up comedian, huh?
He’s certainly method acting being one
Zelensky did called for preemptive nuclear strike on Russia, but liberal media shushed that one successfully. He also appeared particularly stoned in that video, so afaik he never repeated that publicly after.
It sure is a mystery why the mad coke dictator of Ukraine keeps threatening to end the world!
Weird ultimatum. I’m sure Congress is quaking in its boots.
deleted by creator
If the front remains stable, he said Ukraine can arm and train new brigades in the rear to conduct a new counteroffensive later this year.
Steiners CounterOffensive
Mind you, if they can somehow scrape together another offensive and it crashes and burns as hard as the last one, I’m sure that’s going to be great for whatever is left of their morale.
They are already starting to propagate a stab in the back myth. Another failed offensive and they’ll probably turn on the West.
There is nothing the West could “realistically” send that would win the war in Ukraine’s favor. I’m curious how the West is going to react to Azovite terror attacks in their countries.
Hoboy I never thought of that
It is certainly a worry.
Curtailing aid to Ukraine would only prolong the war, Mr Zelensky argues. And it would create risks for the West in its own backyard. There is no way of predicting how the millions of Ukrainian refugees in European countries would react to their country being abandoned. Ukrainians have generally “behaved well” and are “very grateful” to those who sheltered them. They will not forget that generosity. But it would not be a “good story” for Europe if it were to “drive these people into a corner”.
From an interview in The Economist from September last year.
It’s the final part of the blowback cycle
“We lost half a year” while Congress bickered, he said. “We can’t waste time anymore. Ukraine can’t be a political issue between the parties.” He said critics of aid for Ukraine didn’t understand the stakes in the war.
Damn if only there was some precedent to learn about what it’s like to be America’s proxy. This kind of political shit fighting has happened in literally every us proxy war, to the detriment of the proxy.
Blowback Season 10: Ukraine is gonna be great.
i can hardly wait to listen to it in a few years, while every larger gathering is in danger of being terrorist attacked by the ukro-fash, who the media is going to blame on russians
They’re putting politics in everything these days, even war!
War is the continuation of vibes by other means
Damn if only there was some precedent to learn about what it’s like to be America’s proxy
Like what happened to Georgia in 2008 or to Ukraine itself after 2004.
To the last Ukrainian?
Well? How about to the last European?we’re not retreating
we’re advancing in a new direction
If you sold your soul - you could get big money doing PR for the MIC. You just need to change “we” to “they”.
Yeah because this dude is going to get murdered by a thumb looking mf if he surrenders.
what but the chuds told me russia is losing???
The Russians ran out of missiles and started fighting with shovels two years ago. However, as Asiatic Mongols, the Russians gain a +15 bonus to primitive weapons use.
Slava Ukrani.
Slava cocaine
Chuds don’t believe that liberals do
You mean Libs? CHUDs are pro-Russia.
Maybe American ones… and something tell me they only are like that because they eaten the russiagate hoax too, but liked the contents.
the russiagate hoax too
There’s a lot propaganda floating around in Chudspace positioning Russia as a bastion of western traditionalism, religious orthodoxy and opposition to gay/trans rights. To the Chud audience the Russia/Ukraine conflict is framed as tradition vs modern decadence and perversion.
It would be somehow less unhinged if it were just the other side of the russiagate coin.
Edit: obviously propaganda of equal quality also floats around asserting the inverse, ie the de-nazification narrative. Sometimes the streams cross and an article praising Putin’s embrace of multicultural immigration (for example) will pop up in the spaces that tend fascist leaning pro-Russia. It’s all quite tiresome and incoherent.
I see that projection is really the prime usian national pasttime.
To the Chud audience the Russia/Ukraine conflict is framed as tradition vs modern decadence and perversion.
This is particularly funny since even if we tried to look at it like that, then it’s Ukraine that is much closer to the chud values.
Yeah. I think it’s a mistake to read too much into it looking for underlying coherency or consistency. I think Ur-Fascism and other classic observations on these sorts of social movements identify this disregard for logical consistency or sincere ideology.
Annoyingly, it’s not even a tactical feature of the ideology as far as I can tell, the brainrot itself seems to be an important fundamental piece of the material conditions that fascism repeatedly emerges from. (tho it is tactically useful as fuck for them.)
Maybe American ones…
Most are probably opportunistic to the core when it comes to foreign policy tbh, especially those in power.
Yeah, one thing to keep in mind when discussing Americans’ views on foreign policy… like >95% of them are so woefully uninformed on the wider world around them that you can’t learn much from polls on their opinions.
At least in Britain most of the chuds here are extremely hawkish on ukraine
Well, yes. They’re currently in charge of the government. So the status quo is good. American chuds are not in charge of the country. So what the government is doing is bad. It’s a team sport, and they aren’t winning right now. It’s not any more complicated than that.
Anyone rooting for neo-Nazis is a child to me!
Yeah but there’s different types of child
Augh, autocorrect I guess
the only thing worse than a chud
a child
Instead of dead internet where the web is filled with bots it’s children who should be doing their homework instead of writing angry comments.
I’m suprised they haven’t changed him out yet.
he declared martial law and suspended elections, so the people can’t do it, and the west has been satisfied enough with his performance to not have him replaced yet
I’m surprised he hasn’t quietly moved to Argentina at this point. He straight up does not appear to be having a good time.
It's not a retreat, it's a tactical withdrawalthe US congress banned taktik so you cant do that sort of thing now
Sun Tzu: “idk just figure out how not the lose, it’s easy.”
don’t worry they’ll make a movie where they’re winning
Thank you
“Consolidating positions and building out defenses” thats the words… I give them to you Mr. Zelensky, free of charge. Stop getting your people deaded.
I recall reading how they haven’t been building defences for basically two reasons. First, building defences is an admission that they’re planning to retreat making it politically impossible, and second much funnier reason is that it’s easier to embezzle the money “spending” it on other stuff.
You’re missing the point, if its all about political statements and grandstanding.
The Ukrainian government doesn’t need to actually build defenses, you just call, redeploying troops away from the faltering front lines “consolidating positions” and standing down the majority of the conscripts to go back to work in the civilian sector as “building out defenses”. Effectively/practically declaring they’ve been defeated and are ending their part in the war without stating it openly.
These are the kinds of articles we’ll be increasingly seeing in western media in the coming months.
As all the cool kids are saying,
deleted by creator
