You must log in or register to comment.
Ah, you fell for one of the classic blunders: expecting your opponent to value logic and consistency in their opinions
Yeah my fault. You can’t really expect them to treat logic with respect when they are balls deep in an altarboy.
As the below comments have shown, lmao
“The card says ‘Moops’” (great video on this style of Internet “debate” that’s only gotten worse since it was published)
This is a good video. I found a transcript for people like me who prefer text: https://www.readtpa.com/p/innuendo-studios-card-says-moops-seinfeld
THANK YOU. I wish every YT video had this… I tried to resist watching the “voice over stock graphics” or “watching a guy with headphones and RGB lights on his bedroom wall” videos for a long time but they have long since supplanted what would’ve been a nice forum post, reddit self/text post, or blog entry.
I dread the day even these will become “part 1 of 5” tik tok/shorts or painfully broken into Twitter “threads” (I know we’re already halfway there)
Watch out, that card will drink your bones
It’s moors, you son of a removed! Moors!
You know, it’s funny. Because the Bubble Boy episode is all about how someone’s behavior can lead them to be totally unsympathetic, despite their circumstances.
The audience is ultimately supposed to sympathize with George for being a pedent while this obnoxious jerk kinda gets what he deserves.
Eggs aren’t fertilized and thus aren’t embryos tho.
I already checked they can eat fertilized eggs as well.
I mean, unless people are eating Filipino Balut on a regular basis… I don’t think that the vast majority of eggs are fertilized.
I guess Balut is a good question and the island / city of Ilo Ilo is predominantly Catholic. So I could ask around lol. But honestly, I avoid that food. It just doesn’t look right…
I looked it up and it doesn’t matter for the purposes of lent if it is fertilized or not
Could you give a source? Not calling you a liar just curious
I don’t see any specific mention of fertilized eggs in that page. I don’t think it’s safe to assume just because they don’t explicitly mention it that the rule is the same.
I think it’s fine. Whatever isn’t explicitly forbidden is always permitted and at the same time it is almost certain that everyone who eats eggs has had a fertilized one at least once.
I mean you say that but I’m pretty sure my mom’s island is the only place in the world where fertilized eggs are eaten on a regular basis and also has a majority Catholic population.
And I’ve never heard of this situation really coming up. I’d expect the answer to be written in Ilocano as well.
How and where did you look this up?
I found out about it this week and just looked around online plus asked a Pinay friend.
Pinay ain’t enough. My Dad is from Luzon and has never had Balut in his life. A lot of shit talking happens between islands.
Ilocano specifically is what I’d trust as an authority.
Even then, those crazies on the island of Ilo Ilo really like their Balut. They may ignore the rule in favor of eating their local delicacy.
I think a Catholic priest from the island of Ilo Ilo would be the authority on the discussion. But yeah, I dont think this is something you’d easily look up from an English-speaking perspective.
You know it really doesn’t matter because there is no way anyone eating eggs on the regular hasn’t had a fertilized one at least once. Chickens need to be mated to start producing eggs and quail eggs are often sold fertilized.
Maybe not anymore, but they were for thousands of years while this has been practiced.
Eatus the fetus? 🤔
Instructions unclear, feeding you ground feet.
I believe you, but do you have a source for that?
Pretty sure that’s a US thing or maybe more regulated markets. I’ve seen videos of like street markets where a food vendor cracks an egg over their grill and a formed chicken pops out. They have to quickly flick them off.
Balut (Aborted Duck eggs) is straight up a delicacy in my Mom’s home island and the island is mostly Catholic. So it’s an actual issue.
It’s literally sold like ice cream on that island. Every street corner, the locals love it.
I ate balut growing up and we don’t eat it at Lent as it’s considered meat. Tiny, tiny bird meat.
Thanks!! I’m probably going to ask my mom later but good to hear a response earlier!
deleted by creator
Since when has consent meant anything to the Church?
deleted by creator
They can find a loophole for eating an omelette a few days a year but not one to save women from dying?
Removed by mod
Ableist slurs today, huh?
Interesting. I could guess that “removed” might be ableist or sexist, but the fact that you were able to pick correctly and confidently suggests it’s not censored for you. Is this specific to my client or instance? Tbh seeing “removed” (in italics) everywhere is one of the things that has annoyed me about using lemmy, and I’d turn it off if I knew how. Not that I’m in favor of slurs, I’d just like to be able to see what people are actually saying and judge them myself.
The slur filter is a per-instance setting.
It is instance-wide, set by admins.I think it is a lemmy.ml setting, as I see the same, even when using a browser.
After a bit of googling I was able to confirm that it is indeed instance-based.
I use Boost for lemmy but I’m unsure if it’s your instance or not.
Thanks. I use jerboa, and I see that we’re on different instances too. I’ll look into it :)
Edit: it’s the instance. Tbh I probably could have figured this out a long time ago just didn’t even know to look into it until I saw someone that seemed to be able to see uncensored words.
Yep 👍
Bad news, humans are classified as animals too.
Not according to the Catholic Church (ya know what the meme is about). No need to downvote me for pointing out how stupid they are.
Doesn’t matter, all their phrasing is moot when they differentiate animals and humans, because humans are animals.
Ok? Congratulations you’re smarter than a religious person! Here’s your award: 💩
I agree. All animals don’t have souls.
Now what does that have to do with anything? If an egg isn’t a chicken then an ectopic fetus isn’t an adult.
Because (according to the church) humans are special little God-lite creatures. No need to downvote because you forgot the meme is about dunking on Catholics.
What does souls have to do with it? Meat isnt okay during lent, nothing about souls.
Because you’re confused why they might think of an animal embryo differently than a human one
The point of their holiday is to show solidarity with the sufferings of their supposed founder. So they don’t eat meat because meat makes people happy. Alright so they can eat eggs because eggs are not yet meat.
Meanwhile they also claim that a fetus is an adult.
On one side they are saying a fetus is an adult and on the other they are saying it isn’t. Nothing to do with souls, nothing to do with humans being special, and everything to do with my controlling women and liking a nice omelette
Wrong. Eggs can be fertilized. Many people eat them without even realizing.
It’s unlikely a factory farm would bother to have a rooster around after the hens start laying.
We’re talking religion here, so I guess it could be a virgin fertilization…
They also don’t have meat.
Explain “meat spots” then
Logic in religion? Sorry, friend, but that’s a no can do
To be fair, convincing anyone with facts and logic is pretty tough (and not just for me), religious or not.
Turns out, that’s not how humans work most of the time…
to paraphrase an interaction I saw screenshotted somewhere at some point:
“you can change people’s opinions with facts”
“[link] here’s a study saying that’s incorrect”
“well I still think it works”
It’s not logically sound to try to convince someone that you can’t change opinions on the internet. Either you fail or you prove yourself wrong.
I don’t see it like that. Just because the outcome is somewhat paradoxical, facts are still on your side here. And it’s not like that study said it’s impossible, just that it rarely works.
I find that especially when you try to deconstruct someone’s bigotry with facts and logic, they just- don’t care. I vividly remember that one instance when I spent a lot of time deconstructing someone’s transphobia, linking various studies, pointing out flaws in their logic, just to get to the core of their issue with trans people - “they make me feel icky”… what are facts and logic going to do about that?
We dress our feelings up in various facts, with various logical conclusions, but though those two can be argued against, trying to change someone’s “but I don’t like this” is really difficult, and for a stranger on the internet it’s near impossible. To cope I like to tell myself that at least I’m perhaps planting seeds of doubt
The problem is literally willfull ignorance.
This link is an article, that quotes articles that quote things, so attributing who said what without reading the entire thing is probably challenging, but I’ll paste some anyway:
https://howtobeastoic.wordpress.com/2016/01/19/one-crucial-word/
Belangia helpfully adds: “A-gnoia means literally ‘not-knowing’; a-mathia means literally ‘not-learning.’ In addition to the type of amathia that is an inability to learn, there is another form that is an unwillingness to learn. … Robert Musii in an essay called On Stupidity, distinguished between two forms of stupidity, one he called ‘an honorable kind’ due to a lack of natural ability and another, much more sinister kind, that he called ‘intelligent stupidity.'”
Belangia also quotes Glenn Hughes, from an essay entitled “Voegelin’s Use of Musil’s Concept of Intelligent Stupidity in Hitler and the Germans,” providing a further elucidation of the concept of amathia (italics in the original):
“The higher, pretentious form of stupidity stands only too often in crass opposition to [its] honorable form. It is not so much lack of intelligence as failure of intelligence, for the reason that it presumes to accomplishments to which it has no right … The stupidity this addresses is no mental illness, yet it is most lethal; a dangerous disease of the mind that endangers life itself. … [S]ince the ‘higher stupidity’ consists not in an inability to understand but in a refusal to understand, any healing or reversal of it will not occur through rational argumentation, through a greater accumulation of data and knowledge, or through experiencing new and different feelings … We may say that the reversal of a spiritual sickness must entail a spiritual cure.”
…
Enjoy.
hm, I’ve always held the belief that if perhaps words and arguments fail then personal experiences must work. Heard so many stories of various bigots finally meeting those who they hate from the comfort of their home and finding out they’re just normal, kind, and fun people, and suddenly their bigotry is cured as they realise there is no reason to hate after all. If that article is correct then that just fucking sucks man
Yeah, it’s not that angry people don’t realise “there’s no reason to hate”, it’s just impossible to let go of it. So impossible, that you’ll straight up claim up is down and left is right if that’s what it takes to avoid admitting to themselves the thing they know are of course true. At that point, having not accepted reality earlier means that they also fear the “shame” of admitting that all the suffering was for nothing.
Three hardest words “I was wrong.” People are afraid to be “shamed” for having been wrong. Not for making mistakes, but having been wrong. If the setup is ‘you’re trying this new thing’, getting it wrong won’t lose you face.
If you’re a known person and you’ve asserted something, then you it’s very hard to go “you know what, I see it now, I was mistaken”. And with groups, it gets harder and harder. And then people just don’t admit to being wrong. Why admit it’s moronic to say “the Earth is flat” when there’s a million morons like you all sharing in the delusion, despite everyone knowing it’s pretense. And then getting angry on online forums. Then start hating “the norms” and suffer alone at home cursing NASA, while really knowing it’s all you.
See through you, we can.
Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering.
deleted by creator
I think that my mind has been changed by facts. But how do I know? Maybe something else actually changed my mind, and I tell myself it was facts because I like to think of myself as a logical person.
if, as you talked to people, you’ve allowed yourself to feel uncomfortable by genuinely considering they might be right and you’re wrong - you probably did.
deleted by creator
“Fish on Lent” is supposed to be an act of humility, as it is historically a peasant dish.
“Eggs on Lent” is appropriate not because “eggs aren’t chickens until they’re hatched” but because eggs are cheap.
Of course, with the price of fish diverging heavily from meat in the wake of factory farming, one might rationally argue that the American lental feast should be burgers.
But this would not be the first time that the dogma of church history outweighs the message they’re supposedly teaching.
I would argue that the American lental feast should be lentils because the words are the same AND they’re cheap.
Catholic Galaxy Brain.
If eggs aren’t chickens than a fetus isn’t an adult.
If you want to get really theological
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_and_abortion
the question isn’t whether a fetus is an adult but whether it is “human”. And the question of humanity boils down to whether a fetus has a soul. And a fetus doesn’t have a soul until “the quickening”, which is generally regarded as the point at which a woman can feel the fetus kicking in her belly (typically between week 16 and 25, on the back end of the second trimester).
So the real question a doctor has to ask before performing an abortion is whether he can detect a soul in the fetus he is aborting.
I think the biggest reason the debate continues amongst honest actors is that defining when life begins is always going to be arbitrary.
Is it meiosis - when a genetically unique human begins to form? Is it fetal heartbeat? Is it 2nd trimester? Is it birth? Is it after they’ve developed language and can begin to function in society?
The line is going to be arbitrary any place its drawn, and there will be people thinking it’s murder to abort and others who think it’s fine.
That’s one end of the argument. But the other is the same argument you’ll find with conjoined twins or child support payments. At what point do the needs of one individual supersede the well-being of another?
That’s another arbitrary line to draw. But the fundamental problem with “pro-life” as a movement is that said line seems to be drawn to explicitly exclude the pregnant woman. In fact, the possibility of pregnancy almost feels like an excuse to weaponize law enforcement against women, such that even the possibility of being pregnant instills a perpetual social/economic obligation on an entire gender.
there will be people thinking it’s murder to abort and others who think it’s fine.
There will be people thinking its murder not to abort in quite a few circumstances. And women bleeding out in ERs, because physicians are too afraid of the civil/criminal liabilities of aiding a pregnant woman are becoming entirely too common in these so-called pro-life states.
Which is why it’s so damn complicated. But I think the time line of when human life begins is the biggest sticking point because it’s the one that determines the basis of all other arguments.
You have to be willing to see the other side sometimes to have an honest debate.
The best pro-life argument I ever heard was to look at pregnancy like an accident. If you cause an accident that puts someone else’s life in danger, you’re legally required to stop and render aid to the victim until someone else can take over - up until doing so would endanger your own survival.
To the pro-lifer, choosing to have sex was causing the accident that placed the “child” in mortal danger, and carrying the child to term was rendering aid. They also held the position that the logic meant that a raped woman had no responsibility to continue the pregnancy because it wasn’t the victim’s fault they were raped, and that a pregnancy endangering the mother could be terminated.
That argument could be persuasive, but only if the fetus is considered a human.
I think the time line of when human life begins is the biggest sticking point
Its an age old philosophical debate, but that’s precisely why it isn’t a viable candidate for policy. You inevitably get into a contradictory standard of enforcement when the liabilities for fetal death eclipse the electoral benefits of prosecuting pregnant women.
Texas isn’t using these rules to adjudicate HOV lanes, for instance.
While the Texas penal code recognizes an unborn baby as a person, current transportation law in the state does not.
So the question isn’t what’s being raised. These are arbitrary distinctions set by the whims of the legislature.
You have to be willing to see the other side sometimes to have an honest debate.
But we’re well past the point of debate. We past that point when AG Ken Paxton petitioned to stop the abortion of a nonviable pregnancy.
The best pro-life argument I ever heard was to look at pregnancy like an accident. If you cause an accident that puts someone else’s life in danger, you’re legally required to stop and render aid to the victim until someone else can take over
The act of pregnancy itself puts the mother’s life in danger. However, the prospective father is not liable for providing health care to the woman he impregnated.
These theories are quaint thought experiments, but they fail to make their way into law.
That argument could be persuasive
That’s the thing though, you’re jumping straight to Ken Paxton as the standard example for the other side. You’re judging the other side of the debate by the extremists. There are millions of pro-life people who hold that position out of legitimate concern for what they consider to be unborn children, and not because they want to control women.
Acting like the goal of every pro-lifer is subjugation of women is no different than pro-lifers acting like pro-choice people are only interested in “murdering babies.”
It’s an antagonistic position that prevents honest discussion and only serves to empower the extremists on the right.
People on both sides have noble goals, and acknowledging that is the first step towards seeking consensus. Calling everyone on the other side mysoginists gets them defensive, and the political right has weaponized that defensive reaction for decades and used it to create the most powerful single-issue voting group in modern history.
Your argument was never if fertilized chicken eggs are chickens but if a fertilized chicken egg is meat.
Reread what they wrote
But the bible promotes abortion as a way to test if the wife was faithful
Or you can view it as part of God’s plan, a successful abortion means God didn’t want you to have a child
A lot of Christian sects are stupid, but I always found Catholicism particularly inconsistent about their own teachings, even more than Baptists.
Explain the Baptist ones. I am legit curious
Hypocrites are stupid like that
The table eggs you eat are not fertilized, therefore not a chicken.
Fertilized eggs aren’t a chicken either though…
Nobody eats fertilized eggs. The eggs we buy in cartons from the grocery store are unfertilized. The hen factory those eggs originate trom has no males anywhere near the ladies.
It is the rooster’s job to fertilize the egg by inserting its sperm into the hen’s cloaca during mating. In reality, the process of fertilization is more complex than this brief summary suggests. The journey of the rooster’s sperm within the hen is rather arduous until it finally reaches the eggs and fertilizes them.
You’re naive as hell lol
I eat fertilized eggs quite frequently. At least I assume that most of them are. (Free range chickens, 6 hens and a rooster)
But no one wants to eat them because they’re fertilized.
Clearly you haven’t been travelling through Asia.
I’m sorry, but if you’re gonna use countries like China which have a dish literally called “virgin boy eggs” and consists of eggs and urine, i dont think you have room to talk.
I didn’t even mention China, you know Asia is a continent with many countries, right?
You can find information about fertilized eggs pretty easily and the first thing that pop ups on a search online is not “virgin boy eggs” but something called Balut. Well, maybe with your search history it does, but that’s not my problem.
Have a look here if you are still open to expand your Asian horizon: https://www.seriouseats.com/asian-eggs-salt-cured-century-balut-tea-egg
Ok…
The chick doesn’t form instantly. If you get the eggs daily then fertilized eggs are indistinguishable from store bought unfertilized ones. Even if you wait a week or so, at most there’s just like a brown spec the size of a peppercorn.
And yet you have had eggs that were fertilized at least once. Also that wasn’t the answer given on all the Catholics sites I looked at.
I only use the freshest IVF chicken eggs
You don’t want the Catholic Church there. The bible differentiates between Fetus and children.
Which is why it was such a controversy when the then pope declared that Catholics should not use contraception back in the 60ies.
You realise how sexual morality is different from views on what constitutes a human being?
Must be a mystery of the church like why certain priests were transferred to help them with their “urges”.
Isn’t odd how the MAGA scriptwriters are so good and picking and choosing what they are upset about?
How does Maga have anything to do with this? This is about Christians, religion not politics.
Yeah, but Alabama is only 7% Catholic. I get what the original commenter was trying to say, but the meme is making fun of Catholics, while MAGA is a largely Evangelical movement. There’s certainly some overlap in beliefs, but it’s not really fair to lump the two together.
The hypocrisy is similar enough to warrant the lumping, in my eyes.
Google “Balut”. It’s not that simple. Afaik balut is also not permissible during Lent or on Fridays for catholics.
I got a Pinay who says that it is. Really doesn’t matter because as I have pointed out repeatedly you have had a fertilized egg in your life.
Bunch of hypocrites
The shampoo bottles:
Chickens aren’t born, they hatch. /s
deleted by creator
That eggs aren’t meat doesn’t mean they aren’t chicken, duh!
