…that is a profoundly stupid way to look at it, you cannot exist without hurting something or someone, your mere existence causes pain to some people, and they’d much rather you stop existing, are you going to oblige them too? To define pain and suffering as unacceptable in all forms is to deny reality.
Nice ableism. No one is forcing you to support the rape and murder of sentient beings so you can put their corpses in your mouth. You can choose not to do it, don’t pretend your hands are tied
No, we can’t, we’re omnivores, while you can survive on plant-based sources of protein, in the long term, it causes problems. Getting the right nutrients is difficult and expensive, even in the short-term, meaning that you have to be profoundly privileged to do it, so technically, you’re classist.
And you didn’t answer my question, what about all the other suffering you support? People who suffer so that you can be comfortable, everyone from the avocado farmers and factory workers to the bugs/animals that get poisoned by various pesticides? How is their pain ok, while the cows’ pain is unacceptable? Do you understand that you can’t exist without causing some pain and discomfort, somewhere to something?? The only reason you have a problem with eating meat is because that is right in front of you.
Not the original commenter, but wanted to add some rebuttal to a few of those claims
In terms of health
It is the position of the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics that appropriately planned vegetarian, including vegan, diets are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits for the prevention and treatment of certain diseases. These diets are appropriate for all stages of the life cycle, including pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, adolescence, older adulthood, and for athletes. Plant-based diets are more environmentally sustainable than diets rich in animal products because they use fewer natural resources and are associated with much less environmental damage. Vegetarians and vegans are at reduced risk of certain health conditions, including ischemic heart disease, type 2 diabetes, hypertension, certain types of cancer, and obesity. Low intake of saturated fat and high intakes of vegetables, fruits, whole grains, legumes, soy products, nuts, and seeds (all rich in fiber and phytochemicals) are characteristics of vegetarian and vegan diets that produce lower total and low-density lipoprotein cholesterol levels and better serum glucose control. These factors contribute to reduction of chronic disease
Those end up being reduced due to the lesser need to grow crops. Is it perfect, no, but does it end up substantially ahead, yes
So for instance terms of pesticides, the usage still ends up lower due to a lesser need to grow feed crops
To produce 1 kg of protein from kidney beans required approximately eighteen times less land, ten times less water, nine times less fuel, twelve times less fertilizer and ten times less pesticide in comparison to producing 1 kg of protein from beef
Plant-based foods have a significantly smaller footprint on the environment than animal-based foods. Even the least sustainable vegetables and cereals cause less environmental harm than the lowest impact meat and dairy products [9].
There are people, whose whole job, and primary source of income is being vegan and talking about being vegan, and many of those people complain about the health problems they have, despite of all the effort they’ve put into it. So no.
In terms of issues with crop production
So murder of things is fine, then? You we’ren’t complaining about the amount of meat people were eating , you were complaining that people eat meat at all.
And again, you didn’t answer the most important part, what about the human pain and suffering your lifestyle causes?
Note again that I am not the commenter from earlier in this thread. I did not make any of those statements earlier. I am saying that while not 100% perfect, it is a dramatic reduction in environmental harm and suffering
In terms of health, an academic body that has looked at scientific literature is far more reliable than one’s perception of influencers/YouTubers
In terms of human suffering, that is made worse by the meat industry as well. The meatpacking industry is one of the most dangerous injuries out there. From one Human Rights Watch report:
Together, poultry slaughtering and processing companies reported more severe injuries to the US Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) than many industries that are popularly recognized as hazardous, such as sawmills, industrial building construction, and oil and gas well drilling
That’s not to mention mental toll that comes from killing day in and day out that you don’t see with crop harvesting. Quotes from slaughterhouse workers are quite hard to read
Soon, though, I realised there was no point pretending that it was just another job
[…]
As I spent day after day in that large, windowless box, my chest felt increasingly heavy and a grey fog descended over me. At night, my mind would taunt me with nightmares, replaying some of the horrors I’d witnessed throughout the day.
There is evidence that slaughterhouse employment is associated with lower levels of psychological well-being. SHWs [slaughterhouse workers] have described suffering from trauma, intense shock, paranoia, anxiety, guilt and shame (Victor & Barnard, 2016), and stress (Kristensen, 1991). There was evidence of higher rates of depression (Emhan et al., 2012; Horton & Lipscomb, 2011; Hutz et al., 2013; Lander et al., 2016; Lipscomb et al., 2007), anxiety (Emhan et al., 2012; Hutz et al., 2013; Leibler et al., 2017), psychosis (Emhan et al., 2012), and feelings of lower self-worth at work (Baran et al., 2016). Of particular note was that the symptomatology appeared to vary by job role. Employees working directly with the animals (e.g., on the kill floor or handling the carcasses) were those who showed the highest prevalence rates of aggression, anxiety, and depression (Hutz et al., 2013; Richards et al., 2013).
I’m so glad you care so much about the suffering of bugs! Heartwarming. Maybe one day you’ll actually care about the suffering of cows, pigs and chickens too.
You don’t want to comment on the extremely well-sourced post above this one? Strange! BTW, if you’re so worried about the welfare of avocado farmers, maybe you should also be worried about the welfare of slaughterhouse workers, many of whom develop PTSD from killing the animals needed for your le steak and bacon.
I acknowledge the suffering of bugs, the same way I acknowledge the suffering of animals, as the necessary thing that it is. I don’t pretend one is more important then the other just because it’s cute.
You don’t want to comment on the extremely well-sourced post above this one? Strange!
I did, people have gotten sick being vegan, people whose job it was to be vegan(vegan youtubers), so to sit there and pretend that it’s healthy is a conversation ender.
I acknowledge the suffering of bugs, the same way I acknowledge the suffering of animals, as the necessary thing that it is. I don’t pretend one is more important then the other just because it’s cute.
Factory farming and animal agriculture in general are completely unnecessary animal suffering. They only exist because human want muh treats.
I did, people have gotten sick being vegan, people whose job it was to be vegan(vegan youtubers), so to sit there and pretend that it’s healthy is a conversation ender.
“Here’s a scientific article saying that vegan diets are nutritionally adequate.”
So crazy to protest ppl profiting off the rape and murder of thousands of sentient beings
…that is a profoundly stupid way to look at it, you cannot exist without hurting something or someone, your mere existence causes pain to some people, and they’d much rather you stop existing, are you going to oblige them too? To define pain and suffering as unacceptable in all forms is to deny reality.
Nice ableism. No one is forcing you to support the rape and murder of sentient beings so you can put their corpses in your mouth. You can choose not to do it, don’t pretend your hands are tied
No, we can’t, we’re omnivores, while you can survive on plant-based sources of protein, in the long term, it causes problems. Getting the right nutrients is difficult and expensive, even in the short-term, meaning that you have to be profoundly privileged to do it, so technically, you’re classist.
And you didn’t answer my question, what about all the other suffering you support? People who suffer so that you can be comfortable, everyone from the avocado farmers and factory workers to the bugs/animals that get poisoned by various pesticides? How is their pain ok, while the cows’ pain is unacceptable? Do you understand that you can’t exist without causing some pain and discomfort, somewhere to something?? The only reason you have a problem with eating meat is because that is right in front of you.
Not the original commenter, but wanted to add some rebuttal to a few of those claims
In terms of health
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27886704/
In terms of costs
https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2021-11-11-sustainable-eating-cheaper-and-healthier-oxford-study
In terms of issues with crop production
Those end up being reduced due to the lesser need to grow crops. Is it perfect, no, but does it end up substantially ahead, yes
So for instance terms of pesticides, the usage still ends up lower due to a lesser need to grow feed crops
(emphasis mine)
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25374332/
More broadly
https://www.mdpi.com/2072-6643/14/8/1614/htm
This is because
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S2211912416300013
There are people, whose whole job, and primary source of income is being vegan and talking about being vegan, and many of those people complain about the health problems they have, despite of all the effort they’ve put into it. So no.
So murder of things is fine, then? You we’ren’t complaining about the amount of meat people were eating , you were complaining that people eat meat at all.
And again, you didn’t answer the most important part, what about the human pain and suffering your lifestyle causes?
Note again that I am not the commenter from earlier in this thread. I did not make any of those statements earlier. I am saying that while not 100% perfect, it is a dramatic reduction in environmental harm and suffering
In terms of health, an academic body that has looked at scientific literature is far more reliable than one’s perception of influencers/YouTubers
In terms of human suffering, that is made worse by the meat industry as well. The meatpacking industry is one of the most dangerous injuries out there. From one Human Rights Watch report:
https://www.hrw.org/report/2019/09/04/when-were-dead-and-buried-our-bones-will-keep-hurting/workers-rights-under-threat
That’s not to mention mental toll that comes from killing day in and day out that you don’t see with crop harvesting. Quotes from slaughterhouse workers are quite hard to read
https://www.bbc.com/news/stories-50986683
Less anecdotally
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/15248380211030243
omnivore tho
bugs die tho
expensive tho
Bingo card is looking good.
I mean, yes, you’re hypocrites, I’m glad you agree with me. So long acknowledge it, and don’t bother me, I don’t care what you do.
I’m so glad you care so much about the suffering of bugs! Heartwarming. Maybe one day you’ll actually care about the suffering of cows, pigs and chickens too.
You don’t want to comment on the extremely well-sourced post above this one? Strange! BTW, if you’re so worried about the welfare of avocado farmers, maybe you should also be worried about the welfare of slaughterhouse workers, many of whom develop PTSD from killing the animals needed for your le steak and bacon.
I acknowledge the suffering of bugs, the same way I acknowledge the suffering of animals, as the necessary thing that it is. I don’t pretend one is more important then the other just because it’s cute.
I did, people have gotten sick being vegan, people whose job it was to be vegan(vegan youtubers), so to sit there and pretend that it’s healthy is a conversation ender.
Factory farming and animal agriculture in general are completely unnecessary animal suffering. They only exist because human want muh treats.
“Here’s a scientific article saying that vegan diets are nutritionally adequate.”
“But muh vegan Youtubers tho!”