You’re talking about electoralism when this is an issue where the vast majority of voters have nobody to vote for that actually aligns with their interests. Do you vote for Biden the senile Zionist or Trump the deranged Zionist?
You want to work within the system? Make a billion dollars doing something morally depraved and bribe the politcians yourself. It’s just as unrealistic as voooooting your way to progress and more effective.
That’s why in nature all organism live forever instead of creating an entirely new organism to propagate their genetic line. Why waste all the resources on reproduction when you can make the original organism live forever. It’s that simple!
You: “I disagree with Ogodei Khan’s’s policies and the Mongol Empire is collapsing on multiple fronts, if only we declare Kublai Khan the Great Khan at the Kurultai then the true will of the people will prevail and the empire will be cured!”
If we can’t even decide on basic shit like “is the earth warming at a rate that is hostile to life” how are we supposed to form a new cohesive government? It’s going to be hard enough electing decent people to any structure you can think of.
You yourself are making our point for why liberal democracy cannot fix itself. We can’t form a “cohesive government” as you say within this system. That’s why its necessary for this system to end.
You will never be able to elect “decent people” because you, us, the people do not have a say in who they get to vote for. This government does not exist for us, and it is not a democracy for us. And it never will be, until the power of capital is broken
how are you going to protect this revolution from the next one?
There’s an entire intellectual tradition about this called Marxism-Leninism. There are successful Marxist-Leninist governments that exist right now, including the largest nation on earth. We aren’t aren’t talking about a fantasy here, there is is over a hundred years of paractice and two hundred of theory, if you’re interested in our worldview
As you said, the government doesn’t work for us. I don’t know of any structure that truly does
Liberal democracy does not work for us - as in the people who are not in the ruling class. That isn’t because of some immutable characteristic of all governments, it is by the design of the US government and all liberal democracies.
They were designed by and to work to the benefit of the ruling class - capitalists. That’s why it doesn’t work for us. Thats the key element and that’s what we advocate for a change of. The only way to change things in through class struggle - and placing power in the hands of our class.
But the alternative is anarchy, and that’s not going to work either.
We have anarchists here and we keep the place non-sectarian. MLs would agree but not for the same reasons as you. Our disagreement is that we need the power of a state to safeguard the gains of a revolution against the global capitalist class and their state forces. Anarchists have a different view, but they understand the importance of revolutionary class struggle and disagreements aside, their theory of change is infinitely more grounded in reality than yours
Corruption is a fundamental problem of any system of governance, and it reaches a point where the only route to defeat it is to kill the fucking cheats who set it up.
Voting is nit going to fix a system that has intentionally broken voting to invalidate you. Only revolution can do that.
What’s sad is that you think you’re the one being realistic, when your theory of change is complete fantasy.
What we’re talking about has been done and accomplished before and exists in the real world, including the largest nation on earth. What you’re talking about has never happened
People are clowning on you because of the naive electoralism and because you come from a instance but you’re not completely wrong. You just need to go a step further and realize that what the system is doing now is what it was designed to do. Working within it is not going to get you anywhere. Also the guy you’re replying to is joking.
You just need to go a step further and realize that what the system is doing now is what it was designed to do
That’s the key thing with all well meaning lib arguements. They believe their system is broken, when in fact its working perfectly and it was never their system to begin with
Thats how liberal democracy is intended to work you fucking lib shit!!!
That’s what i just said and you read and you still don’t get it, because you don’t have a fucking clue what you’re talking about
echo chamber
No communist in the west lives in an echo chamber. We hear your view - the fatalistic lib, capitalist realism veiw everywhere. You literally live in an echo chamber - its called the US, the most propagandized nation on earth
I have no clue what any of that means. I think its some kind of nerd way to say “no u” with a little emoji to show how not big mad you are right now. Go back to reddit
You ever notice how maybe only a handful of countries have ever reformed their way out of corruption and tyranny in human history, but a vast majority of nations have had a better chance at that through revolution?
I don’t need to convince you of my point history shows us that when the chips are down for the masses, the best way to stop it is to start lobbing off upper class heads. You’re the one that has to convince the rest of us that it isn’t necessary and that the upper class would willingly allow us to out vote them.
The software you’re using was written by a communist lmao. Lemmy was just us and Lemmygrad/lemmy.ml for years before you rddit NPCs decided to freak out over some rddit bullshit and make a thousand reddit clones. Now every once in a while we get to see you basement dwellers accidentally walk outside your echo chamber and freak out.
Congress functions to serve the owner class and has for its entire existence. It started out serving, exclusively, white land-owning men as part of a slave nation.
It will not do anything else, ever. It is baked in and will only stop doing so when the owner class itself is subjugated, something that will only happen via revolution. It would be nice if that wasn’t necessary and the ruling class could just let their power get voted out, but we don’t have the luxury of such fantasies.
The only fix? Voting harder? You’re really tipping your hand when it comes to your total lack of imagination or investment in actually improving things.
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I can think of a better fix
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Palestinians should just vote out the Israelis tbqh.
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You’re talking about electoralism when this is an issue where the vast majority of voters have nobody to vote for that actually aligns with their interests. Do you vote for Biden the senile Zionist or Trump the deranged Zionist?
You want to work within the system? Make a billion dollars doing something morally depraved and bribe the politcians yourself. It’s just as unrealistic as voooooting your way to progress and more effective.
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Bernie is a Zionist too lmao.
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The fact that they’re right helps, i suppose
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I’m over here stroking my ego got lotion on my ego right now I’m just stroking my shit I’m horny as fuck man I’m a freak man like
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Its our ego comrade
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I remember believing that. Then I saw the Democratic party cheat and gaslight the public into thinking theres any real democracy in their primary.
It’s Joever, dude. Democracy is dead
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That’s an assumption you’ve made, and its not factual. It’s a supposition of fact that you shpuld treat with appropriate skepticism
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That’s why in nature all organism live forever instead of creating an entirely new organism to propagate their genetic line. Why waste all the resources on reproduction when you can make the original organism live forever. It’s that simple!
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Yes, that’s why everyone in this thread is explaining to you why that’s bad.
Capital. The answer is always kapital.
You: “I disagree with Ogodei Khan’s’s policies and the Mongol Empire is collapsing on multiple fronts, if only we declare Kublai Khan the Great Khan at the Kurultai then the true will of the people will prevail and the empire will be cured!”
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There is no difference between good things and bad things you imbecile, you fucking moron
You’ve got it. Just
harder lib
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Which is why we need to do a slow incrementalism by voting?
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And this is achieved through voting how? We need a radical in the white house by november.
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Let me paraphrase what you said for you:
“I will eat shit forever because the people forcefeeding me shit taught me that any alternative involves me eating shit AND drinking piss”
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You yourself are making our point for why liberal democracy cannot fix itself. We can’t form a “cohesive government” as you say within this system. That’s why its necessary for this system to end.
You will never be able to elect “decent people” because you, us, the people do not have a say in who they get to vote for. This government does not exist for us, and it is not a democracy for us. And it never will be, until the power of capital is broken
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There’s an entire intellectual tradition about this called Marxism-Leninism. There are successful Marxist-Leninist governments that exist right now, including the largest nation on earth. We aren’t aren’t talking about a fantasy here, there is is over a hundred years of paractice and two hundred of theory, if you’re interested in our worldview
Liberal democracy does not work for us - as in the people who are not in the ruling class. That isn’t because of some immutable characteristic of all governments, it is by the design of the US government and all liberal democracies.
They were designed by and to work to the benefit of the ruling class - capitalists. That’s why it doesn’t work for us. Thats the key element and that’s what we advocate for a change of. The only way to change things in through class struggle - and placing power in the hands of our class.
We have anarchists here and we keep the place non-sectarian. MLs would agree but not for the same reasons as you. Our disagreement is that we need the power of a state to safeguard the gains of a revolution against the global capitalist class and their state forces. Anarchists have a different view, but they understand the importance of revolutionary class struggle and disagreements aside, their theory of change is infinitely more grounded in reality than yours
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Corruption is a fundamental problem of any system of governance, and it reaches a point where the only route to defeat it is to kill the fucking cheats who set it up.
Voting is nit going to fix a system that has intentionally broken voting to invalidate you. Only revolution can do that.
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What’s sad is that you think you’re the one being realistic, when your theory of change is complete fantasy.
What we’re talking about has been done and accomplished before and exists in the real world, including the largest nation on earth. What you’re talking about has never happened
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“Who am I supposed to vote for Ben, Aquaman?”
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Sure. Get back to me on how that works out.
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Lmao ok, what is that even supposed to mean
They’re all bloodthirsty zionists and neocons
People are clowning on you because of the naive electoralism and because you come from a
instance but you’re not completely wrong. You just need to go a step further and realize that what the system is doing now is what it was designed to do. Working within it is not going to get you anywhere. Also the guy you’re replying to is joking.
That’s the key thing with all well meaning lib arguements. They believe their system is broken, when in fact its working perfectly and it was never their system to begin with
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Thats how liberal democracy is intended to work you fucking lib shit!!!
That’s what i just said and you read and you still don’t get it, because you don’t have a fucking clue what you’re talking about
No communist in the west lives in an echo chamber. We hear your view - the fatalistic lib, capitalist realism veiw everywhere. You literally live in an echo chamber - its called the US, the most propagandized nation on earth
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I have no clue what any of that means. I think its some kind of nerd way to say “no u” with a little emoji to show how not big mad you are right now. Go back to reddit
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You ever notice how maybe only a handful of countries have ever reformed their way out of corruption and tyranny in human history, but a vast majority of nations have had a better chance at that through revolution?
I don’t need to convince you of my point history shows us that when the chips are down for the masses, the best way to stop it is to start lobbing off upper class heads. You’re the one that has to convince the rest of us that it isn’t necessary and that the upper class would willingly allow us to out vote them.
new site tag
To the dunk-tank, lib.
Damn I really thought we could have saved this one 😔
🎶Don’t save her, she don’t wanna be saved, don’t save her she don’t wanna be saved🎶
Dont worry comrade ill make sure to vote for Hillary Clinton in this election since you people got mad at me for not doing so in 2016
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^ you right now.
three (3) replies
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The software you’re using was written by a communist lmao. Lemmy was just us and Lemmygrad/lemmy.ml for years before you rddit NPCs decided to freak out over some rddit bullshit and make a thousand reddit clones. Now every once in a while we get to see you basement dwellers accidentally walk outside your echo chamber and freak out.
15 liberals that couldn’t put an original thought together to save their lives.
Get a load of this lib.
Congress functions to serve the owner class and has for its entire existence. It started out serving, exclusively, white land-owning men as part of a slave nation.
It will not do anything else, ever. It is baked in and will only stop doing so when the owner class itself is subjugated, something that will only happen via revolution. It would be nice if that wasn’t necessary and the ruling class could just let their power get voted out, but we don’t have the luxury of such fantasies.
The only fix? Voting harder? You’re really tipping your hand when it comes to your total lack of imagination or investment in actually improving things.
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