Read the comments in the chains that are beneath it. https://old.reddit.com/comments/13ylk42/comment/jmnp04a

My participation will be low here for the time being, but this is something that affects all. Brace yourselves.

Additional information that borderline fascistic instances like sopuli.xyz already exist (Finland NATO supporter), and lemmy.one (PrivacyGuides admin) is run by a US/Canada nationalist that defederated Lemmygrad day 1 and calls people here liberals.

  • comfy
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    1 year ago

    Please, tell me what my positions is.

    Protip: Russia is a capitalist cesspit and so is Ukraine. Ukraine and Russia both only exist seperately because the USSR was dissolved, Ukraine’s control by either RF or the USA was unfortunately inevitable. I will smile if Putin is assassinated.

    • Whiskey Pickle
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      1 year ago

      Pro tip:

      Russia is a capitalist cesspit and so is Ukraine.

      irrelevant. and no excuse for an illegal Russian invasion of another sovereign nation

      Ukraine and Russia both only exist seperately because the USSR was dissolved,

      irrelevant. and no excuse for an illegal Russian invasion of another sovereign nation

      Ukraine’s control by either RF or the USA was unfortunately inevitable

      irrelevant. and no excuse for an illegal Russian invasion of another sovereign nation

      I will smile if Putin is assassinated.

      you and me both, brother/sister

      • cayde6ml@lemmygrad.ml
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        1 year ago

        An illegal invasion is when Russia liberates Ukraine after NATO used it as a fleshlight to bomb Russia for a decade and expected Russia to turn the other cheek.

        You sure as shit would be pissed if China started setting up hundreds of millions of dollars of military equipment in Mexico and started shelling Texas for 8 goddamn years, banning the English language and committing ethnic cleansing of people with American and European heritage in Mexico, killing thousands as the world turned a blind eye and blamed the U.S.

        • Whiskey Pickle
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          1 year ago

          You redefine objective reality to meet your perceptions. Psychologists ould call this “delusional psychosis”.

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        1 year ago

        I don’t fall under a gender binary. It’s quicker to type “comrade”, or “friend”.

        “Illegal” makes no sense in international politics like this. The dissolution of the USSR was “illegal” (majority voted against it). The founding of almost every republic on Earth was “illegal”. Almost every action taken by the CIA is “illegal”. Furthermore, legality is a horrible basis for a system of ethics or morality irregardless.

        Those points were relevant to my position. No outcome is “excusable”, there was no good ending for Ukraine after the fall of the USSR, and it’s pointless to impose some idealistic mindset of what is right and wrong and justified and excused when all states (governments) involved deserve to be overthrown. Being controlled by USA/NATO or by Russia are both bad for the Ukrainian people, and any actual sovereignty would be crushed. Ukraine’s coup was only allowed to survive because of NATO strategic interest, they are unfortunately in a position where they are forced to be subservient to their nationalistic neighbour or the world major superpower.

        The situation is terrible. Both sides suck, and my only allegiance is to the citizens of each country caught up in this bullshit.

        • Whiskey Pickle
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          1 year ago

          I don’t fall under a gender binary. It’s quicker to type “comrade”, or “friend”.

          your personal identity has zero to do with a discussion about Russia and Ukraine. while I respect your identity, it has no bearing in this discussion, so using it as a debate point is both puerile and desperate. Your personal identity (nor anything about you) has any bearing on a discussion about the geopolitics between Russia and Ukraine.

          But, if you prefer to be addressed as “comrade”, I’m happy to comply. Comrade.

          Those points were relevant to my position. No outcome is “excusable”, there was no good ending for Ukraine after the fall of the USSR

          irrelevant

          and it’s pointless to impose some idealistic mindset of what is right and wrong and justified and excused when all states (governments) involved deserve to be overthrown

          if that were the circumstance, maybe, but you’re lying in proposing that’s what’s happening now-- it’s NOT. a sovereign nation has been invaded illegally by another. By lying about the circumstances here, you confess that you have no better reasoning or defense, therefore you LOSE the argument and any defensible position. You are wrong. International borders and their respect of them is NOT something I imposed, it’s something THE WORLD agreed upon. You can’t just move the goalposts when it becomes convenient for you and expect everyone else to find that acceptable or reasonable.

          Being controlled by USA/NATO or by Russia

          Ukraine meets neither of those criteria nor definitions.

          and any actual sovereignty would be crushed

          much to Russia’s (and your) chagrin, that’s not how sovereignty works. It’s not, nor has it ever been, a “bigger dick” issue-- and even if it were, Russia still hasn’t proven their “bigger dick” anyway. They keep losing!

          You obviously have a NATO grudge, and you blame Ukraine, which isn’t in NATO, it makes no sense. Such irrationality only deserves mockery and derision, not a concerted response. You’re a joke for even proposing it.

          you need to get your shit - and arguments - in order. you seem very confused.

          • comfy
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            1 year ago

            If you want to bring relevance into this, a war in Eastern Europe has extremely little relevance to me, my family, my community, my co-workers and even my country, beyond the fortunate side effect of it weakening the major world superpower. This entire conversation is irrelevant.

            I’m not replying to you to “win the argument”, that’s an unhealthy mindset to have when discussing serious issues. Especially when you just made blind assertions about others being contrarian. If you want to spew a bunch of fallacies and declare some kind of victory, twitter will happily accommodate the spectacle. If you actually care about Ukrainian peoples, projecting arguments onto other people and declaring some strange victory provides no solidarity or support for them. It doesn’t help us understand what is happening, and why it will happen in other countries next decade unless we help stop it.

            Most of the viewpoints you just projected onto me are completely baseless. I’ve made it clear I want the dissolution of Russia. I also want the dissolution of NATO. No contradiction! I don’t know why you keep insisting I like Russia. I want it gone more than you do. If I have any grudge, it’s against the Russian Federation for willingly plunging their own people into poverty and terror.

            My critique of NATO is not a grudge, it’s a recognition that they actively antagonize the sovereignty of almost the entirety of South America, Africa and the Middle East, along with much of Asia, and more. Anti-democracy, invasion and bombing. The same bullshit Russia has done to Ukraine. The sad truth is that NATO are not “good”. Russia aren’t either. There is no good side in this war. Neither side really give a fuck about Ukrainians, hell they barely care about their own citizens.

            • Whiskey Pickle
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              1 year ago

              edit: apologies for typos-- i have a shitty BT keyboard that’s acting up, and it’s 2am, so I can’ really fix it right now

              you try to reframe bad acts by bad actors in a wat that are excusable, but you fail by any rational definition. and no whining or false clams of victimhood will save you.

              Russia’s illegal invasion is just that-- illegal. there’s no argument there, just desperate pleadings y sycophants.

              your grudges with NATO are just that petty removedery in an attempt to transfer unrelated grievances of the past to a current and unrelated conflict in an attempt t justify the imperialistic whims that you so vociferously decry when it’s not the side you cheer. Hypocrites.

              You accuse me of projection when you can’t even see reality and accuse me of wrongdoing when I relay facts and truth. Typical fascist and authoritarian propaganda techniques-- I guess you really do love the soviets, not communism. or so you admit that communism is inherently authoritarian and oppressive of free thought and speech? more hypocrisy.

              My critique of NATO is not a grudge

              everything you have said and continue to say is more proof and a better argument that any other person could make. you’re in serious denial or just think your audience is very stupid. neither of which is true.

              • comfy
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                1 year ago

                I explicitly said those acts aren’t excusable.

                Legality is a nonsense concept in this context.

                I explained that I didn’t have a grudge against NATO.

                Every single paragraph you just wrote is projecting a view I don’t hold onto me then crying about how you disagree with it.

                My audience has demonstrated that it is very stupid.

                • Whiskey Pickle
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                  1 year ago

                  I explicitly said those acts aren’t excusable.

                  yet you used them as an excuse

                  Legality is a nonsense concept in this context.

                  only if you’re a criminal seeking legitimacy for your crimes.

                  Every single paragraph you just wrote is projecting a view I don’t hold onto me then crying about how you disagree with it.

                  “Blah blah blah, I can’t hear you! blah blah blah!”

                  My audience has demonstrated that it is very stupid.

                  My gang of nazis thinks my Naziism is awesome

                  well done. all that you did is prove I’m right, and that you’re terrible. I’m sure you’ll re-imagine that as a win, for the sake of your ego… because you’re too weak to admit when you’re wrong. like a strong man would.

                  edit: strong people do not fear defeat, for it provides them an opportunity to overcome their own weaknesses. weak people, like you, fear the inevitability of simply admitting that they were wrong, for they know they have no future.

                  (edited to be gender-neutral)