Colonialism is not contradictory within the US, but rather between the US (specifically US corporations and client state corporations) and other states. (As opposed to the internal fascistic capitalism within the states) As such, we can have racial equality within these corporations, but the global systemic hierarchy / international contradiction still remains.
There is data confirming that the benefit from imperialism is marginal in the working class in the US, with this data specifically being how the real average wage of production and non-supervisory employees have not increased significantly. We can see the same trends in heavily exploited countries such as Mexico, with the conclusion being that a good part of America can literally be compared to an over exploited third world country.
The contradiction inside the US is and always has been between the rich and the poor, and segregation has been just a means of preventing organization. In other words, contradictions between races have been intensified to the point where it overwrites the primary contradiction.
However, material conditions do not enforce the contradiction between races, and this is just a facade; our current method of production (the methods which we use to put food on the table) does not necessitate segregation by race. What enforces segregation and racism is the structure put in place by our bourgeois dictatorship.
Why not both?
Yes both, but not the way the liberals do it. You can’t solve racism by policing microaggressions or letting more black people into Harvard. You do it by organizing around a mass line, with goals to removing the segregational rules and policies that not necessarily affects only race, but also wealth.
The same method used to invoke qualitative change can be used.
If we ended capitalism right now, white supremacy would still exist. The contradiction of settlers living on stolen land would still exist, hence why colonialism is the primary contradiction. It’s why the US must cease to exist as it is in order to solve that contradiction. Land must be returned to the Natives and colonized people that built the empire.
Whiteness as an ideology must be dismantled. Consumption, domination, hyperindividualism, etc are all tenets of whiteness and subsequently capitalism. You can’t tackle one without the other.
Whiteness as an ideology must be dismantled. Consumption, domination, hyperindividualism, etc are all tenets of whiteness and subsequently capitalism.
I’m with you in some of what you’re saying but this is an extraordinarily poor and non Marxist idea. Where did you hear this? Capitalism is the result of “whiteness”? You surely must have misspoke?
I didn’t say that capitalism is the result of whiteness, just that they’re inexorably linked together. Colonialism is what ties the labor aristocracy and racial hierarchy together. The “culture” of the United States includes consumption, etc, all the things I mentioned but those ideals are solely colonial ones.
didn’t say that capitalism is the result of whiteness, just that they’re inexorably linked together.
This is either the same thing or even worse. This entire thread is bizarre and for me just demonstrates how insular and far removed from humanity American culture has become.
Exactly what it is about a lack of melanin causes people to decide to exploit others and appropriate their surplus value is a theory I can’t wait to hear. Perhaps hypervitaminosis D is the fundamental process causing a kind of atavistic savagery and sociopathy? This is the best hypothesis I can manage with all generosity and it’s wacky as fuck. Please explain yours.
If you believe that capitalism is an inevitable stage then it can emerge anywhere the conditions allow for it. If capitalism had emerged in Africa you’d be telling me that capitlism and blackness are inexorably linked together.
Lack of melanin is not the same as whiteness. Whiteness is not biological. It is socially constructed. Once upon a time Itialians and Irish were not considered white. What was considered white among “hispanic” peoples is quite inconsistant. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Hispanic_and_Latino_Americans Recently liberals have been happily calling Russians “orcs” even though they are also fair skinned.
Whiteness is a super-structural phenomenon to contrast people that are “colored”. The differentiation gives preferential treatment to “white” people over “colored” people. To eliminate whiteness is to eliminate white supremecy. You can have cultural ties to English, Irish, German, or American culture without being “white”.
During the start of European colonization of Africa, Asia, and the Americas, the mythology of white supremacy and the burden for white people to “civilize” these people is the justification for colonization. White supremecy was created to justify colonization, genocide, and slavery. All of these allowed colonizing nations to believe that they are justified to exploit the non white peoples for wealth. These attitudes carried over into capitalism and also used to exploit people of color for greater profits. The white proletariat were exploited but not to the extent of the colored proletariat.
It is up to radicals to push back against the inertia of history. If we don’t work to destroy whiteness, white supremacy will continue. We have to acknowledge the wealth stolen for generations, psychological harm inflicted for generations, and if one is understood as white, distance themselves from their whiteness. Destroying whiteness destroys coloredness. Only then can people just be people.
Lack of melanin is not the same as whiteness. Whiteness is not biological. It is socially constructed.
According to who? Anyway, we were talking about racism and skin colour. Something people experience solely on the basis of their appearance. You’re moving the goalposts here. Telling American police that it’s okay, you support the empire and are actually white won’t change their behaviour.
According to the people who made it up? We didn’t create this social construct, it was a group of people who justified the atrocities of colonialism by attributing it to their skin color. Because it’s a social construct it must be dismantled.
First of all, the means of production, (and through which we can sustain the population density in the states) is industry. Without industry, farms will not be able to generate enough yield to sustain our population density.
Secondly, suppose that a revolution happens, and the American experiment is ended. Will the workers and the people who have revolted, agree to give the means of production to the aboriginals, essentially placing them as a new ruling class? It would be against working class interests.
Thirdly, human society will organize themselves in response to material conditions. In the case of the capture or gifting of the industrial mode of production to the aboriginals, the previously equitable aboriginals will reorganize themselves to for a new capitalist class.
A more equitable solution is to have aboriginals take part in the revolution and subsequently collectively own the land and means of production alongside the working class.
Racial and other hierarchies are developed in response to not just capitalism, but rather property, the defence of property, and the conquest of properties. As it is, whiteness is just another word for the capitalist class, as representative for the ruling hierarchical class. For example, Obama is white.
So, to get rid of whiteness, you must change/reorganize our current mode of production. (A la Lenin) But to have enough bargaining power to do that, you must organize across all the intersections.
And how do we do that? By focusing on our common interests, organizing around our common interests, and fighting for our common interests. How do we not do that? By focusing on our differences and hiding the capitalist contradiction through arguing about the contradiction between intersections.
National liberation comes first, if you think you can ignore Native people and the descendants of slaves brought here against their will you’re going to have an extremely bad time trying to build a cohesive revolution in the US.
Colonialism is not contradictory within the US, but rather between the US (specifically US corporations and client state corporations) and other states. (As opposed to the internal fascistic capitalism within the states) As such, we can have racial equality within these corporations, but the global systemic hierarchy / international contradiction still remains.
There is data confirming that the benefit from imperialism is marginal in the working class in the US, with this data specifically being how the real average wage of production and non-supervisory employees have not increased significantly. We can see the same trends in heavily exploited countries such as Mexico, with the conclusion being that a good part of America can literally be compared to an over exploited third world country.
The contradiction inside the US is and always has been between the rich and the poor, and segregation has been just a means of preventing organization. In other words, contradictions between races have been intensified to the point where it overwrites the primary contradiction.
However, material conditions do not enforce the contradiction between races, and this is just a facade; our current method of production (the methods which we use to put food on the table) does not necessitate segregation by race. What enforces segregation and racism is the structure put in place by our bourgeois dictatorship.
Yes both, but not the way the liberals do it. You can’t solve racism by policing microaggressions or letting more black people into Harvard. You do it by organizing around a mass line, with goals to removing the segregational rules and policies that not necessarily affects only race, but also wealth.
The same method used to invoke qualitative change can be used.
If we ended capitalism right now, white supremacy would still exist. The contradiction of settlers living on stolen land would still exist, hence why colonialism is the primary contradiction. It’s why the US must cease to exist as it is in order to solve that contradiction. Land must be returned to the Natives and colonized people that built the empire.
Whiteness as an ideology must be dismantled. Consumption, domination, hyperindividualism, etc are all tenets of whiteness and subsequently capitalism. You can’t tackle one without the other.
I’m with you in some of what you’re saying but this is an extraordinarily poor and non Marxist idea. Where did you hear this? Capitalism is the result of “whiteness”? You surely must have misspoke?
I didn’t say that capitalism is the result of whiteness, just that they’re inexorably linked together. Colonialism is what ties the labor aristocracy and racial hierarchy together. The “culture” of the United States includes consumption, etc, all the things I mentioned but those ideals are solely colonial ones.
This is either the same thing or even worse. This entire thread is bizarre and for me just demonstrates how insular and far removed from humanity American culture has become.
Exactly what it is about a lack of melanin causes people to decide to exploit others and appropriate their surplus value is a theory I can’t wait to hear. Perhaps hypervitaminosis D is the fundamental process causing a kind of atavistic savagery and sociopathy? This is the best hypothesis I can manage with all generosity and it’s wacky as fuck. Please explain yours.
If you believe that capitalism is an inevitable stage then it can emerge anywhere the conditions allow for it. If capitalism had emerged in Africa you’d be telling me that capitlism and blackness are inexorably linked together.
Lack of melanin is not the same as whiteness. Whiteness is not biological. It is socially constructed. Once upon a time Itialians and Irish were not considered white. What was considered white among “hispanic” peoples is quite inconsistant. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Hispanic_and_Latino_Americans Recently liberals have been happily calling Russians “orcs” even though they are also fair skinned.
Whiteness is a super-structural phenomenon to contrast people that are “colored”. The differentiation gives preferential treatment to “white” people over “colored” people. To eliminate whiteness is to eliminate white supremecy. You can have cultural ties to English, Irish, German, or American culture without being “white”.
During the start of European colonization of Africa, Asia, and the Americas, the mythology of white supremacy and the burden for white people to “civilize” these people is the justification for colonization. White supremecy was created to justify colonization, genocide, and slavery. All of these allowed colonizing nations to believe that they are justified to exploit the non white peoples for wealth. These attitudes carried over into capitalism and also used to exploit people of color for greater profits. The white proletariat were exploited but not to the extent of the colored proletariat.
It is up to radicals to push back against the inertia of history. If we don’t work to destroy whiteness, white supremacy will continue. We have to acknowledge the wealth stolen for generations, psychological harm inflicted for generations, and if one is understood as white, distance themselves from their whiteness. Destroying whiteness destroys coloredness. Only then can people just be people.
According to who? Anyway, we were talking about racism and skin colour. Something people experience solely on the basis of their appearance. You’re moving the goalposts here. Telling American police that it’s okay, you support the empire and are actually white won’t change their behaviour.
We’re taking about different things here.
According to the people who made it up? We didn’t create this social construct, it was a group of people who justified the atrocities of colonialism by attributing it to their skin color. Because it’s a social construct it must be dismantled.
That’s fairly idealist of you to claim that.
Why is it idealist? Three reasons:
First of all, the means of production, (and through which we can sustain the population density in the states) is industry. Without industry, farms will not be able to generate enough yield to sustain our population density.
Secondly, suppose that a revolution happens, and the American experiment is ended. Will the workers and the people who have revolted, agree to give the means of production to the aboriginals, essentially placing them as a new ruling class? It would be against working class interests.
Thirdly, human society will organize themselves in response to material conditions. In the case of the capture or gifting of the industrial mode of production to the aboriginals, the previously equitable aboriginals will reorganize themselves to for a new capitalist class.
A more equitable solution is to have aboriginals take part in the revolution and subsequently collectively own the land and means of production alongside the working class.
Racial and other hierarchies are developed in response to not just capitalism, but rather property, the defence of property, and the conquest of properties. As it is, whiteness is just another word for the capitalist class, as representative for the ruling hierarchical class. For example, Obama is white.
So, to get rid of whiteness, you must change/reorganize our current mode of production. (A la Lenin) But to have enough bargaining power to do that, you must organize across all the intersections.
And how do we do that? By focusing on our common interests, organizing around our common interests, and fighting for our common interests. How do we not do that? By focusing on our differences and hiding the capitalist contradiction through arguing about the contradiction between intersections.
National liberation comes first, if you think you can ignore Native people and the descendants of slaves brought here against their will you’re going to have an extremely bad time trying to build a cohesive revolution in the US.
hear hear