A new UN report finds that humanity is generating 137 billion pounds of TVs, smartphones, and other e-waste a year—and recycling less than a quarter of it.
E-waste will continue to be a problem until companies are forced to make products that are designed to be repaired and upgraded without replacing them.
We have certification for safety and compliance, why not one that guarantees that an electronic product can be fully repaired by the end user using readily available (and affordable!) parts? It can be on a scale from 1 to 10, and the less repairable the item, the more restricted its distribution should be.
Every laptop should be made like a Framework laptop; every phone like a Fairphone. Every electronic product should certified to have long life.
Hardware is not even the biggest issue imho. Software/firmware is even much worse. How is it possible to sell a phone that does not even get updates for 5 years. And why is Fairphone, Google Pixel and iPhone standing out with only 5 ish years.
IMO its fine for vendors to abandon their products but they should be required to release all technical documentation and software used with the device into the public domain so enthusiasts can continue where companies stopped.
I’m continually mystified as to why companies don’t want to release the old technical documentation and software. Is it all so bad that they are THAT embarrassed to show it?
The changes for the company in releasing old software is minor, the vast majority of users don’t have the skill to deploy it and people who do have the skill can earn enough money doing a variety of technical work that repairing old phones isn’t going to be an attractive option.
What portion of phones capable of running LineageOS etc end up being used in that way? 1%?
Fair point re: software. Part of manufacturing products that don’t need to be thrown away would entail longer software support, naturally.
But realistically, software was never an issue 15+ years ago, when your toaster and microwave weren’t connected to the internet and your fridge didn’t have a large tablet interface.
I think we would all do better by having a few more “dumb, but immortal” products in our lives.
Why can’t I buy a decent dumb TV? I get that people want smart TVs, but surely there’s a decent market for people who really don’t need those features and would be happier with a simpler product. I’m absolutely part of that market, and I’m sure there are others.
I generally prefer simpler devices, and it was difficult buying a fridge with decent longevity (i.e. limited smart crap, ice maker in the freezer instead of fridge, etc). That’s becoming more and more difficult, and large appliances have shorter and shorter lifespans (I had my compressor die twice in <10 years in my LG fridge… fridges used to last 15+ years).
I generally prefer simpler devices, and it was difficult buying a fridge with decent longevity (i.e. limited smart crap, ice maker in the freezer instead of fridge, etc). That’s becoming more and more difficult, and large appliances have shorter and shorter lifespans (I had my compressor die twice in <10 years in my LG fridge… fridges used to last 15+ years).
I should say that my current fridge is 27 years old and has NEVER had a problem (other than over-stuffed crisper drawers being broken).
I was reading that the average life for a fridge is 10-15 years, and I can’t honestly believe they are being made so poorly these days. They are such simple appliances, and I dread the day when I have to replace this one for a modern version.
But I’d love for my next TV to be a dumb TV. All the features my LG tv has just gets in the way of using it. LOL
Yeah, after some research, LG in general is the worst, especially with their linear compressor. It failed after 2-3 years (under warranty), and failed again after 4-5 more years. We didn’t bother fixing it again, since the repair people said it’d cost $600+ assuming the part is under warranty, and probably wouldn’t last much longer anyway. Samsung is apparently similarly bad, but with different components. I liked this video, which goes over which fridge to get, and other resources say something similar: LG and Samsung are piles of crap (they’re super fancy though), Whirlpool and GE are better if you avoid fancy features, and everything kind of sucks.
We went with Whirlpool this time, but everything I’ve read says the expected lifetime is still just 10-years. I don’t want fancy features, I just want it to keep things cold, and I’d rather pay someone to fix it than replace it…
All the features my LG tv has just gets in the way of using it
Same. I have a Samsung “dumb” TV (~40", 1080p) from ~10 years ago and it’s fine, and I have an LG “smart” TV (~55", 4k) from 5-ish years ago, which can be a pain to use and I’d prefer to just have a “dumb” TV instead. I even use the “smart” features sometimes, but they’re slow and I’d get a much better experience with a small PC hooked up to it instead.
But it’s incredibly hard to find non-smart TVs. There’s a handful of “hospitality” TVs, but they’re usually lower resolution, don’t have nice features like OLED, and size seems to cap out around 40" at the biggest (most are 32"). I don’t want any of the AI fixing crap, apps, etc, just give me a bunch of HDMI ports (ideally DisplayPort as well) and a decent picture.
I remember watching a recent program (one of those investigative consumer news shows), and I remember the LG problem you mentioned. A ton of people had an issue with that compressor, and LG just kept selling the damn things. Knock on wood, our LG washer and drier, and TV have been very reliable.
I’d get a much better experience with a small PC hooked up to it instead
That’s what I do these days. Combined with media I have on my NAS, I don’t need other “apps” or garbage nonsense on my TV. If only they made 60" computer monitors. LOL
LG just kept selling the damn things. Knock on wood, our LG washer and drier, and TV have been very reliable.
Apparently it’s just their refrigerators that suck, just like with Samsung.
We have an LG washing machine and dryer, and other than one repair that I handled myself (logic board failure, so $150-200 repair), it has been solid. I also have an LG TV, and aside from the smart crap, it works pretty well (have had for >7 years now).
Combined with media I have on my NAS
The one feature I like about the smart TV is support for DLNA, which means I can stream video directly to it from my NAS. I have ripped many of our DVDs to the NAS so I don’t need to go fiddle with disks to watch something. My Blu-ray player supports DLNA as well, so I don’t really need the TV to support it, but it is somewhat convenient.
The one feature I like about the smart TV is support for DLNA
Yes, a nice feature that even early “smart” TVs had. It could have stopped at that and everyone would have been happy.
But today’s smart TV’s loaded with ads; unnecessary bloat; “shortcuts” to services you have no intention of ever using; massive user tracking; and complicated firmware/software that can render your TV useless, have become the real problems. It’s the enshittification of hardware that really was just fine being “dumb”.
Thanks for the tip, I’ll take a look. I’ve mostly been looking at the typical tech shops (Newegg, Best Buy, etc), and they’re all smart crap.
Edit: I took a look, and it seems prices aren’t generally available online. Is that common, or do you have recommendations for distributors to look for?
The new Pixel is 7 years, which really should be the norm.
I’d really rather use a Linux phone, but a mix of closed modems and other non-technical issues are causing headaches. But theoretically, support on those devices could be indefinite because I could patch it myself if needed.
I just want a simple headphone jack that has worked for like the last century instead of relying on flaky Bluetooth that becomes a physical fingerprint, but apparently that’s too much to ask for in phones now
It would also be nice to have a microsd slot like my crappy flip phone had almost 20 years ago, instead of paying out the nose for non-upgradeable storage.
I worry that it’ll just become a million distros with incompatible apps and dumb shit like that. Bad enough we have to have 5 or 6 guides for each piece of software on Linux.
I think we’ll largely just piggy back off Android, kind of like WINE/Proton does for Windows stuff. There will probably be a few flavors of that, but it’ll all essentially be the same thing.
But who knows, I’d like that to be the problem we have instead of current problem where basic functionality doesn’t work reliabiably (like waking to receive a call/text).
Yeah, seriously. Phones work fine hardware-wise for much longer than they get software updates for. If a company has to choose between supporting their existing model or making a new phone in terms of workload, they should support their existing model until at least most of the people who bought the phone when it was new now have physically broken phones.
I had an iPad I won from work and Apple successfully turned it into a paperweight. I had to do these convoluted things just to get apps installed, because the app store refused to install them on an old device. Apple and it’s walled garden are very much to blame, Steve Jobs perfected modern day planned obsolescence and the company does everything it can to ensure even small failures require a device replacement.
I mean we have made steps forward here like forcing Apple to use USB-C, so we dont have to throw away chargwra every time we change phones. I tbubj Brazil fined the fuck out od apple some years ago because they didn’t yet switch to USB-C by the deadline. We need more laws like this to enforce standardized, reusable components
E-waste will continue to be a problem until companies are forced to make products that are designed to be repaired and upgraded without replacing them.
We have certification for safety and compliance, why not one that guarantees that an electronic product can be fully repaired by the end user using readily available (and affordable!) parts? It can be on a scale from 1 to 10, and the less repairable the item, the more restricted its distribution should be.
Every laptop should be made like a Framework laptop; every phone like a Fairphone. Every electronic product should certified to have long life.
Hardware is not even the biggest issue imho. Software/firmware is even much worse. How is it possible to sell a phone that does not even get updates for 5 years. And why is Fairphone, Google Pixel and iPhone standing out with only 5 ish years.
Luckily the EU is currently working on that.
IMO its fine for vendors to abandon their products but they should be required to release all technical documentation and software used with the device into the public domain so enthusiasts can continue where companies stopped.
Exactly. Right to Repair should include software and whatnot, not just parts and schematics.
I’m shifting my old 2012 Mac Pro to Linux and, while mostly a smooth transition, firmware and drivers are the only real headache.
I’m continually mystified as to why companies don’t want to release the old technical documentation and software. Is it all so bad that they are THAT embarrassed to show it?
The changes for the company in releasing old software is minor, the vast majority of users don’t have the skill to deploy it and people who do have the skill can earn enough money doing a variety of technical work that repairing old phones isn’t going to be an attractive option.
What portion of phones capable of running LineageOS etc end up being used in that way? 1%?
Fair point re: software. Part of manufacturing products that don’t need to be thrown away would entail longer software support, naturally.
But realistically, software was never an issue 15+ years ago, when your toaster and microwave weren’t connected to the internet and your fridge didn’t have a large tablet interface.
I think we would all do better by having a few more “dumb, but immortal” products in our lives.
Exactly.
Why can’t I buy a decent dumb TV? I get that people want smart TVs, but surely there’s a decent market for people who really don’t need those features and would be happier with a simpler product. I’m absolutely part of that market, and I’m sure there are others.
I generally prefer simpler devices, and it was difficult buying a fridge with decent longevity (i.e. limited smart crap, ice maker in the freezer instead of fridge, etc). That’s becoming more and more difficult, and large appliances have shorter and shorter lifespans (I had my compressor die twice in <10 years in my LG fridge… fridges used to last 15+ years).
I should say that my current fridge is 27 years old and has NEVER had a problem (other than over-stuffed crisper drawers being broken).
I was reading that the average life for a fridge is 10-15 years, and I can’t honestly believe they are being made so poorly these days. They are such simple appliances, and I dread the day when I have to replace this one for a modern version.
But I’d love for my next TV to be a dumb TV. All the features my LG tv has just gets in the way of using it. LOL
Yeah, after some research, LG in general is the worst, especially with their linear compressor. It failed after 2-3 years (under warranty), and failed again after 4-5 more years. We didn’t bother fixing it again, since the repair people said it’d cost $600+ assuming the part is under warranty, and probably wouldn’t last much longer anyway. Samsung is apparently similarly bad, but with different components. I liked this video, which goes over which fridge to get, and other resources say something similar: LG and Samsung are piles of crap (they’re super fancy though), Whirlpool and GE are better if you avoid fancy features, and everything kind of sucks.
We went with Whirlpool this time, but everything I’ve read says the expected lifetime is still just 10-years. I don’t want fancy features, I just want it to keep things cold, and I’d rather pay someone to fix it than replace it…
Same. I have a Samsung “dumb” TV (~40", 1080p) from ~10 years ago and it’s fine, and I have an LG “smart” TV (~55", 4k) from 5-ish years ago, which can be a pain to use and I’d prefer to just have a “dumb” TV instead. I even use the “smart” features sometimes, but they’re slow and I’d get a much better experience with a small PC hooked up to it instead.
But it’s incredibly hard to find non-smart TVs. There’s a handful of “hospitality” TVs, but they’re usually lower resolution, don’t have nice features like OLED, and size seems to cap out around 40" at the biggest (most are 32"). I don’t want any of the AI fixing crap, apps, etc, just give me a bunch of HDMI ports (ideally DisplayPort as well) and a decent picture.
I remember watching a recent program (one of those investigative consumer news shows), and I remember the LG problem you mentioned. A ton of people had an issue with that compressor, and LG just kept selling the damn things. Knock on wood, our LG washer and drier, and TV have been very reliable.
That’s what I do these days. Combined with media I have on my NAS, I don’t need other “apps” or garbage nonsense on my TV. If only they made 60" computer monitors. LOL
Apparently it’s just their refrigerators that suck, just like with Samsung.
We have an LG washing machine and dryer, and other than one repair that I handled myself (logic board failure, so $150-200 repair), it has been solid. I also have an LG TV, and aside from the smart crap, it works pretty well (have had for >7 years now).
The one feature I like about the smart TV is support for DLNA, which means I can stream video directly to it from my NAS. I have ripped many of our DVDs to the NAS so I don’t need to go fiddle with disks to watch something. My Blu-ray player supports DLNA as well, so I don’t really need the TV to support it, but it is somewhat convenient.
Yes, a nice feature that even early “smart” TVs had. It could have stopped at that and everyone would have been happy.
But today’s smart TV’s loaded with ads; unnecessary bloat; “shortcuts” to services you have no intention of ever using; massive user tracking; and complicated firmware/software that can render your TV useless, have become the real problems. It’s the enshittification of hardware that really was just fine being “dumb”.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
I liked this video, which goes over which fridge to get
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
You can. Its called a monitor.
Do they make >50" monitors? My wife was hoping for ~70" for our next TV…
Yes. Find a commercial distributor in your area. Businesses buyarge commercial monitors for their offices, not smart TVs
Thanks for the tip, I’ll take a look. I’ve mostly been looking at the typical tech shops (Newegg, Best Buy, etc), and they’re all smart crap.
Edit: I took a look, and it seems prices aren’t generally available online. Is that common, or do you have recommendations for distributors to look for?
Maybe try Tech Data, Ingram Micro, Synnrx, Mouser, etc
The new Pixel is 7 years, which really should be the norm.
I’d really rather use a Linux phone, but a mix of closed modems and other non-technical issues are causing headaches. But theoretically, support on those devices could be indefinite because I could patch it myself if needed.
I just want a simple headphone jack that has worked for like the last century instead of relying on flaky Bluetooth that becomes a physical fingerprint, but apparently that’s too much to ask for in phones now
It would also be nice to have a microsd slot like my crappy flip phone had almost 20 years ago, instead of paying out the nose for non-upgradeable storage.
My phone has both, but there is literally only one flagship left on the market with the specs
I worry that it’ll just become a million distros with incompatible apps and dumb shit like that. Bad enough we have to have 5 or 6 guides for each piece of software on Linux.
Im.glad apt, yum and systemd exist.
I think we’ll largely just piggy back off Android, kind of like WINE/Proton does for Windows stuff. There will probably be a few flavors of that, but it’ll all essentially be the same thing.
But who knows, I’d like that to be the problem we have instead of current problem where basic functionality doesn’t work reliabiably (like waking to receive a call/text).
Yeah, I have a bunch of old phones that I rescued and I’d love to set them up as an arm kubernetes cluster to play with.
Yeah, seriously. Phones work fine hardware-wise for much longer than they get software updates for. If a company has to choose between supporting their existing model or making a new phone in terms of workload, they should support their existing model until at least most of the people who bought the phone when it was new now have physically broken phones.
I had an iPad I won from work and Apple successfully turned it into a paperweight. I had to do these convoluted things just to get apps installed, because the app store refused to install them on an old device. Apple and it’s walled garden are very much to blame, Steve Jobs perfected modern day planned obsolescence and the company does everything it can to ensure even small failures require a device replacement.
Just install F-Droid or whatever the equivalent is for Apple
Lol.
I mean we have made steps forward here like forcing Apple to use USB-C, so we dont have to throw away chargwra every time we change phones. I tbubj Brazil fined the fuck out od apple some years ago because they didn’t yet switch to USB-C by the deadline. We need more laws like this to enforce standardized, reusable components