Why on earth would you assume I consume US media, let alone what kind of US media I allegedly consume?
Unlike you I actually was born and grew up in a dictatorship with actual state approved media.
Your stupid comment is an insult to the victims of dictatorships everywhere.
It’s yog- he’s 100% a propagandist across multiple platforms. Whatever he posts you can safely assume is pure propaganda and only tangentially related to reality.
Here is the projection. When faced with your own methods you are quick to point out the bad faith which you yourself have systematically applied in every single comment in this very thread.
Maybe educate yourself on the subject then. A democracy is a government that works in the interest of the majority and is held accountable to the people of the country. A government like that would ensure that everybody had food, housing, healthcare, education, jobs, and retirement the way USSR did and the way none of western “democracies” seem to be able to.
This is such a disengenuous statement dripping with derision. Honestly trotting out this glib phrase is a clear declaration that you’re not interested in a good faith discussion.
A democracy is a government that works in the interest of the majority and is held accountable to the people of the country.
The vast majority of people in “shithole western countries” would say that this is true of their government. I’m not sure that’s true for people living in the USSR.
everybody had food, housing, healthcare, education, jobs, and retirement the way USSR did
We have all of those things. Sure they’re not directly provided by the government, but the government develops legislation to ensure that the overwhelming majority of citizens have great access to those things. The idea of a food shortage in Australia is unheard of. Was that true of the USSR?
This is such a disengenuous statement dripping with derision. Honestly trotting out this glib phrase is a clear declaration that you’re not interested in a good faith discussion.
Don’t pretend you were ever interested in having any sort of good faith discussion here.
The vast majority of people in “shithole western countries” would say that this is true of their government. I’m not sure that’s true for people living in the USSR.
Given the level of discontent in western societies right now, I don’t believe you. Meanwhile, as opinion polls show majority of people who lived in USSR now say they prefer the old system after getting a taste of the capitalist paradise.
We have all of those things.
There are literal tent cities of homeless people growing in many G7 countries each and every year:
You are really delusional and a liar. I do not believe for one second you grew up in the USSR, not one nano second. If you were present during that that period you would have noticed that these proud USSR population did not walk but ran towards the west and all the things they really wanted. Not what USSR barely could provide (remember the lines before shops? No you don’t, you were not there) but what the west could and would provide. You casually forgot that. Well, you could not forget little liar as you lied about being alive and present in that period.
You can’t believe that I grew up in USSR and actually liked my life there because you’re smooth brained victim of western propaganda. And when you’re faced with people who actually lived in USSR and liked it, you’re incapable of processing this information. Meanwhile, you can stop calling me a liar, cause I still even have my original USSR passport. Learn to deal with it troll.
You can keep calling me whatever you like, but anybody reading this thread can clearly see that you’re just insane.
And here is the whataboutism. Instead of replying to the question you attempt to deflect by pointing fingers. Again, typical of your bad faith behaviour.
Very on the nose for you to use a logical fallacy as a form of argument. Comparing democracy in USSR to the available alternatives is precisely how you determine the quality of the democracy.
After USSR collapsed life got very hard, and my family ended up moving around a lot to make ends meet. I don’t think people in the west understand the kinds of horrors we had to live through after the collapse. I can tell you a personal anecdote where we started to have food shortages, and people would line up in front of a grocery store early in the morning like a black friday sale. Then people working at the store would just wheel out a cart with whatever they had and people would rush to grab what they could. Since I was a small kid at a time, I could weave between people easier to get to the food. I was literally risking my life getting trampled just so I wouldn’t starve for the day.
Anybody who cheers the collapse of USSR and claims it was a good thing is a piece of human garbage.
I was pretty happy with my life in USSR, so I definitely would move back if that was to happen. However, I don’t really see a path towards that in the foreseeable future. Russia is very much capitalist nowadays, and I don’t think there’s any real political will to go back to a communist system at the moment. That said, there is no stigma against communism within Russian public. Lots of people who grew up in USSR are still alive today, and they overwhelmingly prefer the old system. They obviously have influence on the younger generation as well, so communism is generally seen in a positive light in Russia. Perhaps now that Russia is falling into Chinese sphere of influence that may result in a similar model at some point.
I think it’s also worth acknowledging that USSR did collapse, so clearly it wouldn’t make sense to try and recreate the same system. What needs to happen is that people need to look critically at what USSR did well, and what the problems were to build a better system informed by that experience. I hope that happens within my lifetime, but you can never know what the future will hold.
If people make idiotic comments then they shouldn’t expect generous replies. I don’t ever make any glib comments when somebody makes a respectful reply that’s on topic. Respect is earned.
You are implying that the media in the US is as state controlled and state supporting as the media in China and therefore that neither is more true than the other, merely a viewpoint. Is that actually what you’re saying?
I mean entire books have been written on the subject of how US oligarchs who own the government use the media to manipulate public opinion. Here are a couple you should read
I don’t read very much US news. A bit of WP and occasionally CNN, but it’s certainly not where I get my news from. I don’t live in the US FWIW.
You still haven’t answered my question: Do you believe that the US press and the Chinese press is both lying to the same extent? Do you believe the US and Chinese press are in service of the state to the same extent?
I’m not disputing the press is influenced in the US. You keep speaking in absolutes though … I’m speaking about degrees. So let’s compare degrees, instead of saying “influenced” or “free” as some absolute binary measures.
If you live in the west then exact same dynamics apply. The media is owned by the oligarchs, and much of the media in all the western sphere is dominated by US.
And to answer your question it’s clear to anybody who follows news that US press lies to a far greater extent. The whole notion that privately owned press in the hands of the oligarchs is somehow more objective than government owned press has no basis in logic or reality.
I’m also not speaking in any absolutes, I’m simply telling you that objectively speaking there is plenty of evidence that western press regularly engages in outright misinformation and lies. Chinese press has a bias, because any press has a bias, but I’ve yet to see it spread conspiracy theories like Russiagate. This is a perfect example of a huge misinformation campaign orchestrated by western media that has been thoroughly debunked, yet large portion of western public still believes it and regurgitates it today. That’s just one example.
We must live in two different worlds. If your view is that the Chinese media is more objective than the US media, I simply don’t think we have a basis for finding any consensus. I no longer know what to say. Have a good day and wish you the best.
I get that it’s hard for people in the west to see the brainwashing they’re exposed to because you swim in it since the day you’re born, it becomes the natural medium. However, for somebody who grew out outside the west this is very transparent. I grew up in USSR, and then my family eventually moved to the west after the collapse. I was absolutely shocked to see the nonsense people believed about USSR. People who never set foot in USSR would argue with me about my lived experience as if they knew better. This is the strength of western propaganda machine.
Sorry to hear you only consume US state approved propaganda.
Why on earth would you assume I consume US media, let alone what kind of US media I allegedly consume? Unlike you I actually was born and grew up in a dictatorship with actual state approved media. Your stupid comment is an insult to the victims of dictatorships everywhere.
It’s yog- he’s 100% a propagandist across multiple platforms. Whatever he posts you can safely assume is pure propaganda and only tangentially related to reality.
Out of curiosity, was your dictator put there in a coup supported by the US?
I grew up in USSR, and a lot of numbskulls called it a dictatorship.
How were those free and fair elections in the USSR?
A lot better than in western shithole countries.
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Amazing counter point you got there.
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Nah, I made my point quite clearly bruv.
Here is the projection. When faced with your own methods you are quick to point out the bad faith which you yourself have systematically applied in every single comment in this very thread.
No, I’ve made actual arguments in this thread. Maybe read them and try to comprehend what was said.
I’m speechless.
Maybe educate yourself on the subject then. A democracy is a government that works in the interest of the majority and is held accountable to the people of the country. A government like that would ensure that everybody had food, housing, healthcare, education, jobs, and retirement the way USSR did and the way none of western “democracies” seem to be able to.
This is such a disengenuous statement dripping with derision. Honestly trotting out this glib phrase is a clear declaration that you’re not interested in a good faith discussion.
The vast majority of people in “shithole western countries” would say that this is true of their government. I’m not sure that’s true for people living in the USSR.
We have all of those things. Sure they’re not directly provided by the government, but the government develops legislation to ensure that the overwhelming majority of citizens have great access to those things. The idea of a food shortage in Australia is unheard of. Was that true of the USSR?
Don’t pretend you were ever interested in having any sort of good faith discussion here.
Given the level of discontent in western societies right now, I don’t believe you. Meanwhile, as opinion polls show majority of people who lived in USSR now say they prefer the old system after getting a taste of the capitalist paradise.
There are literal tent cities of homeless people growing in many G7 countries each and every year:
CIA says that people in USSR ate just as much as Americans after WW2 period while having better nutrition:
You are really delusional and a liar. I do not believe for one second you grew up in the USSR, not one nano second. If you were present during that that period you would have noticed that these proud USSR population did not walk but ran towards the west and all the things they really wanted. Not what USSR barely could provide (remember the lines before shops? No you don’t, you were not there) but what the west could and would provide. You casually forgot that. Well, you could not forget little liar as you lied about being alive and present in that period.
I was and I call you out: liar!
You can’t believe that I grew up in USSR and actually liked my life there because you’re smooth brained victim of western propaganda. And when you’re faced with people who actually lived in USSR and liked it, you’re incapable of processing this information. Meanwhile, you can stop calling me a liar, cause I still even have my original USSR passport. Learn to deal with it troll.
You can keep calling me whatever you like, but anybody reading this thread can clearly see that you’re just insane.
And here is the whataboutism. Instead of replying to the question you attempt to deflect by pointing fingers. Again, typical of your bad faith behaviour.
Very on the nose for you to use a logical fallacy as a form of argument. Comparing democracy in USSR to the available alternatives is precisely how you determine the quality of the democracy.
Blablabla- more lies.
Why did you leave?
After USSR collapsed life got very hard, and my family ended up moving around a lot to make ends meet. I don’t think people in the west understand the kinds of horrors we had to live through after the collapse. I can tell you a personal anecdote where we started to have food shortages, and people would line up in front of a grocery store early in the morning like a black friday sale. Then people working at the store would just wheel out a cart with whatever they had and people would rush to grab what they could. Since I was a small kid at a time, I could weave between people easier to get to the food. I was literally risking my life getting trampled just so I wouldn’t starve for the day.
Anybody who cheers the collapse of USSR and claims it was a good thing is a piece of human garbage.
I see, that’s pretty traumatic. It explains your hatred of the post-USSR regime.
Would you move back if a post Putin leader would revert back to the USSR ways?
I was pretty happy with my life in USSR, so I definitely would move back if that was to happen. However, I don’t really see a path towards that in the foreseeable future. Russia is very much capitalist nowadays, and I don’t think there’s any real political will to go back to a communist system at the moment. That said, there is no stigma against communism within Russian public. Lots of people who grew up in USSR are still alive today, and they overwhelmingly prefer the old system. They obviously have influence on the younger generation as well, so communism is generally seen in a positive light in Russia. Perhaps now that Russia is falling into Chinese sphere of influence that may result in a similar model at some point.
I think it’s also worth acknowledging that USSR did collapse, so clearly it wouldn’t make sense to try and recreate the same system. What needs to happen is that people need to look critically at what USSR did well, and what the problems were to build a better system informed by that experience. I hope that happens within my lifetime, but you can never know what the future will hold.
OK thanks for your personal insights.
Get out of here with that strawman. None of the comments you replied to implied anything of the sort. It is very typical of your bad faith MO though.
You should learn what a straw man is if you’re going to use the term to try and sound clever.
I don’t look for you, but you’re never far away.
This is another example of you being glib and acting like you know a person and their failings with profoundly little evidence.
If you want to be taken seriously at all, work on being able to draw clear conclusions from a body of evidence and then be able to use rhetoric well.
You know you could have replied with the exact same reply to the parent comment, yet you chose to reply to this one. Curious.
I don’t see them being glib on every 10th thread I click through.
That distinction is entirely yours.
If people make idiotic comments then they shouldn’t expect generous replies. I don’t ever make any glib comments when somebody makes a respectful reply that’s on topic. Respect is earned.
Ahh the old whataboutisms come out.
Screeching whataboutism is a really round about way to tell us that you’ve got nothing meaningful to say.
Ok.
Let’s be real about this for a second.
You are implying that the media in the US is as state controlled and state supporting as the media in China and therefore that neither is more true than the other, merely a viewpoint. Is that actually what you’re saying?
I mean entire books have been written on the subject of how US oligarchs who own the government use the media to manipulate public opinion. Here are a couple you should read
And the fact that the state in US is firmly in the hands of the oligarchs is made pretty clear by a study analyzing many decades of US policy
The fact that you don’t even recognize the propaganda you’re being subjected to further underscores how effective it is.
I don’t read very much US news. A bit of WP and occasionally CNN, but it’s certainly not where I get my news from. I don’t live in the US FWIW.
You still haven’t answered my question: Do you believe that the US press and the Chinese press is both lying to the same extent? Do you believe the US and Chinese press are in service of the state to the same extent?
I’m not disputing the press is influenced in the US. You keep speaking in absolutes though … I’m speaking about degrees. So let’s compare degrees, instead of saying “influenced” or “free” as some absolute binary measures.
If you live in the west then exact same dynamics apply. The media is owned by the oligarchs, and much of the media in all the western sphere is dominated by US.
And to answer your question it’s clear to anybody who follows news that US press lies to a far greater extent. The whole notion that privately owned press in the hands of the oligarchs is somehow more objective than government owned press has no basis in logic or reality.
I’m also not speaking in any absolutes, I’m simply telling you that objectively speaking there is plenty of evidence that western press regularly engages in outright misinformation and lies. Chinese press has a bias, because any press has a bias, but I’ve yet to see it spread conspiracy theories like Russiagate. This is a perfect example of a huge misinformation campaign orchestrated by western media that has been thoroughly debunked, yet large portion of western public still believes it and regurgitates it today. That’s just one example.
We must live in two different worlds. If your view is that the Chinese media is more objective than the US media, I simply don’t think we have a basis for finding any consensus. I no longer know what to say. Have a good day and wish you the best.
I get that it’s hard for people in the west to see the brainwashing they’re exposed to because you swim in it since the day you’re born, it becomes the natural medium. However, for somebody who grew out outside the west this is very transparent. I grew up in USSR, and then my family eventually moved to the west after the collapse. I was absolutely shocked to see the nonsense people believed about USSR. People who never set foot in USSR would argue with me about my lived experience as if they knew better. This is the strength of western propaganda machine.