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Joined 1Y ago
Cake day: Jul 22, 2020


Yep, that sounds about right. But it’s up to the author if he/she wants to modify it. I don’t insist, I’m just arguing about the choice of words.

Apple employee is Apple’s responsibility

That’s why they were prosecuted.

they count as Apple employee, and thus it is Apple’s doing

By your logic, if a citizen of a country will kill another citizen then it’s the country who killed that citizen. Pretty flawed, huh?

Why are they collecting data when “what happens on iPhone stays on iPhone”? Is that not false advertisement about claiming to protect a human right?

How’s it related to selling user data? There’s a lot of things to blame Apple for. But this is off topic.

Calling The Hated One an ordinary YouTuber on the subject of privacy is not just disingenuous, but ignorant and shows a lack of understanding.

I don’t care about YouTubes. What’s his accomplishments except for retelling other sources? How is his content different from lifehacks and minecraft letsplays? Did he proved a flaw in differential privacy? If so, where can I take a look at the paper?

There is proof of Apple selling user data (Apple employee is not separate from Apple)

I’ve showed that this doesn’t work like that. This is also contradicts their privacy policy. Are you saying that they are lying in their public legal document? Then why no one won a lawsuit agains them given that there were lawsuits?

For the third day in a row I’m asking you to provide a source for your claim and we’re still here. That’s not even funny anymore.


I’m not saying that your guide is complete garbage or anything like that. I believe that there are people who will find it useful. Your claims on Apple selling personal data and pointing to unrelated links as an “evidence” is the problem. Well, you’re not the first one in the hype train and you’re definitely not the last one.

You are coming off as agressive. Kindly request you to be a gentleman even if we have disagreements.

To be honest, I don’t see where I was aggressive in my comments. All I was doing is asking questions and arguing about your choice of words in the article.

Apple employees were selling data in China, which you can read.

There’s a difference between Apple and an Apple’s employee who’s got an unauthorised access to data.

For the iTunes lawsuit, it was found that iTunes does collect personal data on you, but I will give you the leeway and benefit of doubt.

Yes, I’m 100% sure that this lawsuit is bullshit because:

  1. This is not the first time someone claims something like this.
  2. There’s no proof that Apple sells iTunes data.
  3. There’s a common sense that says me this is bullshit.

You can tell me I was wrong after the court will rule that Apple was selling user data. But I doubt this will happen. As you said, “Until it is proven, I will just declare it to be FUD garbage.”

How about Siri recording conversations, and continuing to record them 9 months after they promised they would not do it.

Yep, they collecting user’s recording and only recently allowed you to opt-out. Still, they didn’t sell it.

You can watch The Hated One’s video on Apple as well, discussing the Epsilon values on differential privacy fake claims.

To watch a YouTuber discussing differential privacy? Yeah, sure. Right after he will show me his PhD degree in math.

I see you went crazy on HN’s comments but my point was not to insult you but instead to address your comment:

The thread is about the guide I made, and it seems to contain facts that others are not criticising except you.

The whole point of this discussion for me was simply to ask you to be more careful with accusations in the article. There’re no proofs on Apple’s selling user data and I would be highly surprises they do this after all their effort in making their devices, software and SDKs more privacy-aware.

Instead of throwing such a strong claims you could instead say something like “placing your trust in companies and giving away your personal info is not a good idea if you’re privacy conscious person” or something. But you just grabbed few links with headlines like “YO YO Apple selling your data, no shit” without even reading them. I suppose, to give more weight to your article and for hype? This makes really hard to take the rest of the guide seriously.

Are you intentionally acting ignorant towards the evidence I already gave for Apple spying and selling user data?

Sorry for the questions, but did you read the “evidences” you provided? Could you please point me? Maybe I’m blind or something but I yet to see evidences for Apple selling my data.

Guess what, your tiny comment train is not the thread. The thread is about the guide I made, and it seems to contain facts that others are not criticising except you.

Apparently, I’m not the only one: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24091709

Are you intentionally evading questions related to profs for Apple selling user data? You still didn’t provide any sources nor you said anything about trust in other vendors.

I can’t care less about Google or Facebook as well as I don’t care about US military. This thread is about Apple and how it handles personal data.

Yeah, I missed these two links, thanks. So, the first one talks about unauthorised access from some employees. I don’t see how this proves that Apple sells personal data.

From the second link:

For example, any person or entity could rent a list with the names and addresses of all unmarried, college-educated women over the age of 70 with a household income of over $80,000 who purchased country music from Apple via its iTunes Store mobile application.

I’ve tried to find a way to rent such a list and didn’t found how can I achieve this. Moreover, you can’t even get names nor addresses via Search Ads targeting. Given that this article is almost 1.5 years old and there was no more info about that lawsuit it’s either a fake or someone tried to get some easy money.
So, we’re back to the question.

Bold claim. I wonder if there is someone else who blabbered a sentence similar to this… “backdoors in transit”? Until it is proven, I will just declare it to be FUD garbage.

Its not a claim. I’m asking why you don’t trust Apple but trust other vendors? Why they deserve your trust? Why other people should trust them more than Apple? That was the question.

And you still end up making an Apple account with plenty of your data going to Apple servers.

Yes, and that’s why I said you can get more privacy with something like GrapheneOS. But you won’t get more security by switching away from iPhone.

There’s nothing about Apple selling data to third-parties. Moreover, they are clearly saying in they privacy policy that they don’t sell it. So, again, do you have any sources on that?

Any company from Five Eyes are potential NSA partners. Companies from other countries may be partners as well. See Crypto AG from Switzerland. If you don’t trust Apple that much then why do you trust other vendors? How can you be sure that, for example, Sony or LG does not ship backdoored phones to US or India or other countries? Most of the Android phones are with Qualcomm chips too. So, I don’t see how iPhones are less secure. You can have more privacy with something like GrapheneOS but definitely not more security.

You can use fake Apple ID for App Store, you don’t need a credit card for it.

Yes, there is Apple Search Ads thing which allows to advertise an app on App Store. The thing is they are transparent on how it works and explicitly say that they don’t sell any data. See here: https://searchads.apple.com/privacy/

Thanks for your post but your Apple section is questionable. Could you please provide sources for your claim that Apple sells data they collect? Also, after that Qualcomm f*ckup, using T1/T2 vulnerability as a reason not to buy Apple device is weird. The only valid arguments are all outlined in the Gist and they are surely concerning. But that’s not nearly enough to say that Apple devices should be avoided.