Both the president and his reelection campaign are going after his coup-attempting predecessor even before the first GOP primary ballots are cast.
A full year out from the 2024 presidential election and nearly two months before Republicans cast their first primary ballots, President Joe Biden and his campaign are assuming that Donald Trump will be his opponent and have already started reminding voters why they threw him out of office in the first place.
Biden personally has stepped up criticism of his coup-attempting predecessor and is framing the likely rematch as one that will determine the survival of American democracy.
“The same man who said we should terminate the rules and regulations and articles of the Constitution — these are things he said — is now running on a plan to end democracy as we know it,” he said last week at a fundraiser in Chicago.
“This next election is different. It’s more important. There’s more at stake. And we all know why: Because our very democracy is at stake,” he told a San Francisco audience on Wednesday.
And we must hold Biden responsible.
But are you suggesting that Trump would approach Israel any differently? The US response is deeply rooted in morally evil international interests, I don’t think any president could respond much differently without severe internal consequences to themselves. It would be the right thing to do, though it would be political suicide thanks to said evil interests.
What makes you think Biden is responsible for Israel’s actions? If my brother or my neighbour does something to harm someone and the results of this harm come to my awareness, explain without emotion, using logic, how and why should I be held responsible for the results of his actions, and where do we draw the line?
If I don’t know why something has happened and I go out and ask why, and people blame me simply for simply asking the very question, who is responsible?
Clearly, the person who looks to blame the person asking the question must have a dogma, they must have a reason, it’s very reasonable to believe they must have a stake in the question not being asked which obviously means that they could know who is responsible.
Because he gives israel bombs to kill children and women with and sends 2 aircraft carriers and a nuke sub to prevent other nations from defending the Palestinians.
Let’s not confuse freedom with purposeful proposition
I think in place of this, you mean Biden should be held accountable, but you have no intention or expectation of it actually happening. Reelection is definitely the opposite of that. And like Bush transitioning to Obama, I doubt you’ll be calling for any retroactive accountability once Biden has left office after reelection.
Then your assumptions are incorrect.
I would prefer not to re-elect Biden. I however am not in control of the Democratic Party, and so the best I can do is vote in elections leading up to the national election. When the day comes next year for a national election, it will be Biden VS. Whomever the republicans pick. Those are my two choices, whether I like it or not.
I am already politically active in demanding Biden be held accountable. I am still active in demanding Bush be held accountable for war crimes. I will still remain active in the future to ensure Biden answers for them as well.
As a law abiding citizen, I am protesting and voting. So do you suggest I commit violence instead? That is the only next step, seeing as I am not in control of who the Democrat party elects.
that sounds about what my assumptions were. A desire for accountability, yet you’ll be voting for him and he won’t be facing any sort of accountability.
I’m trying to conduct some conversation here. You haven’t responded to my inquires and fail to show any motivation beyond disparaging the US. If you’d like to actually care and be a part of the solution, I’ll be waiting over here.
The barest minimum for holding a politician accountable is not reelecting them.
You may not be from the US, so I will forgive your ignorance on how politics work here.
Long story short, whether you or I like it or not, it will most likely be Trump vs. Biden.
Here in the US, we citizens have severely limited power in suggesting who the political parties run for national elections.
What this all boils down to is that I get to choose between Trump or Biden. I could choose not to vote, but then my voice is heard even less.
I should choose to protest and demand better action by my policy makers and representatives. But I already do that, and I made that very clear to you.
So again, what do you suggest? I’m over here actively trying to cause change for the better, and all you have to say is “Haha typical, won’t do anything”. Are you just trolling?
No youre doing something, voting to reelect Biden. This whole hostage situation is a self fulfilling prophecy, we’re all allowed to vote for whoever, doesnt have to be in any political party, and the person with the most, well, approximately the most votes thanks to the electoral college, gets the elected position. But everyone assumes everyone else is gonna vote for Biden, none that ive met so far that actually like the guy, so everyone votes for him. And this trend of more and more conservative democrats vs crazier and crazier republicans that must be stopped, continues. The guy you want to hold accountable will be rewarded instead, with your help, and the two party system will be even less challenged. I say its a bandaid that needs ripping
Okay but if people switch their vote from Biden to Stein or West or Kennedy then it’ll just guarantee the vote is split between Biden and them and hand the presidency directly to Trump and we both know that’ll just make things worse.
It would take splitting the vote like this for at least a decade for the new party to possibly gain the presidency. Is a decade of unfettered fascist control really going to help anyone?
Let me summarize my response with two words: “No shit.”
Now how about you recommend something tangible. You’re spouting off buzz words like an edgy teenager that wants to rebel against the system. If that’s what you want to do, then say it and let loose with the calls to violence. Because that’s what it seems like you’re alluding to, and you refuse to respond to any of the actual work put forth in the real world.
History suggests the exact opposite.
Consider healthcare and Obamacare. What happened when people unhappy with Obamacare not going far enough didn’t vote in 2010? The US swung rightward and the far right grew in power. The only thing that happened with healthcare was the constant Republican attempts to repeal it, and they were almost successful. We almost saw regression on the issue, not improvement.
Think about this another way – if reelection is a vindication to the politics and means their voters see no need to hold them accountable, what happens if a Republican wins? They’ll see their positions as justified and be emboldened. The country will seem to favor conservatism, so Democrats will go the opposite direction and become more moderate. A Republican victory isn’t seen as Democrats needing to be more left and a Democrat victory isn’t seen as Republicans being to be more right. It’s the complete opposite.
The problem is that you’re forgetting this is a zero sum game. If you hold the Democrat accountable, you let the Republican slide. If you hold the Republican accountable, you let the Democrat slide. If you want to hold both accountable and just not vote, you’re letting the candidate at an advantage slide and holding the underdog accountable. There’s no good option. If you want to actually hold both of them accountable, you have to vote FOR the one that’s closer the direction you want to go, and then use your vote as leverage. Politicians listen a lot more to their voters than go non voters. Young people are putting real pressure on Biden because they previously voted for him.
That’s what I’m doing by threatening to withhold my vote! That’s how pressure works. We put pressure on him by making sure his campaign knows “no ceasefire, no votes”. I helped him get into the white-house and I won’t help again if he doesn’t listen.
All you blue-no-matter-who voters have absolutely zero pressure you can apply. You’re locked in. Your voice is worthless.
Please tell me how you can apply pressure without withholding your vote. Calling? They let it go to voicemail. Writing? Shredder.
democrats just have been becoming more conservative. I dont expect that trend to change anytime soon and Im no longer going to support it.
and he ignored that pressure so Im no longer voting for him.
Firstly, that’s untrue. Over the last decade Democrats have demonstrably moved left, and even academic analyses have observed it. Second, as I said, Democrats become more conservative when conservatives win. There’s a reason why Bill Clinton was more conservative than other Democrats and why his approach actually worked. The Third Way, as they called it, was their answer to Republican dominance from Reagan onwards.
Like it or not, Republicans kept winning, and Clinton saw that as an indication that voters were conservative and Democrats were too liberal for what voters wanted. Since then however, the country has shifted leftwards, and Third Way has become unsuccessful because of it. If you don’t vote and Republicans win, and they keep winning, don’t be surprised when Democrats shift to the right because they think voters are conservative. Your actions are perpetuating rightward movement, not stopping it.
Voting for someone isn’t the same as supporting them. That isn’t what a vote indicates. Your vote for someone simply means that you think they’ll do better than the other person or that person is more closely aligned to your beliefs. It’s not like you’re sending a love letter. You’re picking leadership based on who’ll perform better to achieve the goals you want. Voting is a calculated move, not an act of passion.
I’m suggesting that the machine operates the same no matter who pulls its levers, for exactly the reasons you listed.
That said? I don’t think as many Democrats would be reluctant to endorse a ceasefire under Trump. That matters.
It doesn’t though. I disagree with Biden but he’s not actively trying to take away my rights. Its a lesser of two evils situation, and acting like its not is either naive or malicious.
I want ranked choice voting so it isnt always this lesser of two evils bullshit, but that’s not the reality.
If you don’t vote biden, that’s your choice, but that isn’t some brave silent protest. That’s giving up. What are you doing to change things? Right now. I voted in my local elections just recently. We lost every vote, but I did it anyways. I’ll be voting in any primaries I can, and for any election I’m able. When I’m financially able I’ll be donating to candidates who I personally support.
Unless you want a full on revolution, work around the bullshit system we have to make it better. Realistically, I don’t think there is the public will for a real revolution.
This is harsh and I mean it to be. If you don’t vote you are doing nothing. If you aren’t campaigning or helping somebody else do so, you’re doing nothing. If you are simply whining on the Internet about how both candidates are shit and you give up, then you’ve given up. Don’t pull this “enlightened” both sides are equally shit idiocy. Its simply not true.
If you honestly think that the only way to change is revolution, then plan one. Nobody wants to hear you shout to the void that you won’t be participating in the bare minimum of directing a democracy/republic.
You’re fine with Biden supporting a genocide in Gaza as long as it doesn’t personally effect you, is that right?
This is an internet comment section. We’re all shouting to the void, nothing anyone says here matters. This is all just for fun.
I never said I supported the shit in Gaza. I don’t. I want a ceasefire. I want a free and independent Palestine. What, realistically, do you want me to do to make that happen? Voting for Trump won’t help. Voting third party won’t help. Not voting won’t help. Enlighten me.
Or is this more “if you haven’t given up too you must be complicit” bullshit? What have you done? I’ll continue to do what I can to make a positive change, despite the lack of power I personally have. I’d encourage you to do the same, to pick up whatever hypothetical twig you have laying around and swing it, rather than putting down others for doing what they can, in the fucked up situation we are in. Citizens have political power as a collective, not individuals, and if you back out of that collective you’re just giving up what power you do have.
If you vote for Biden you are voting for genocide. Fact.
Our votes are our only leverage over Biden. If the Biden team cares at all about winning reelection then Biden will reconsider his unlimited support for Israel, and if he does I will 100% vote for him. Until then? No ceasefire, no votes.
Also I haven’t given up? Hell, I’m still voting downticket for Democrats! But I will not vote for genocide. That’s my red line. I can not compromise myself that far, I’d literally rather die (and because I’m a trans commie, Trump might actually fucking kill me so yeah)
Trump will be just as bad, if not worse. He regularly praises dictators for their human rights abuses and wants to reimplement a travel ban from many middle eastern countries, and has stated he doesn’t want any refugees to come from those areas, I believe specifically including Gaza.
I understand the decision you’ve made, but I disagree. I still feel that biden v trump means I vote biden, because trump is both worse for the US, and worse for the people suffering in Palestine. I hope Biden changes his stance and actually calls for a ceasefire, and I will continue to let my representatives know this.
You do what you gotta do, but I’ll never support Trump, through direct action, or inaction.
Trump will also make Democrats think twice about their unlimited support for Israel, so it’s actually a mixed bag.
At the very least libs like Bernie would have the courage to endorse a ceasefire under Trump, even if they won’t under Biden.
Read Bernies most recent book on Capitalism and how we should abolish it before you call him a lib, just cause he preaches Healthcare, College, and Scandinavia for the votes doesn’t mean he and the other DemSocs in congress don’t have radical aspirations.
“Hmmmm Fascism but it forces the Dems to have a humane foreign policy if they survive the persecution.” Quite the mixed bag you got there.
I’m a little more torn over this than others… On one hand, this is the appropriate messaging to force Democrats to actually represent the interests of their electorate, the thing they’re specifically elected to do. The phone lines of these politicians should be going off 24 hours a day with callers telling them they will never even consider voting for them again unless they show an appropriate level of change, remorse, and action to stop this. Biden should be receiving that 10x over. Additionally, there are groups of people I will never criticize for refusing to vote - should the white lefty criticize the Muslim for refusing to vote for a leader that does not value the lives of Muslims? Should they criticize the Jew for refusing to vote for a leader who commits genocide in their name?
…and on the other hand, as a queer person who follows politics, I still feel any public refusal to vote Biden on my part must be a bluff. There’s too much at stake for me to justify going through with it privately… there’s my trans life, yes, but then there’s also the lives of my trans and generally queer friends, the freedoms of the women in my life, the lives and freedoms of those groups on the national scale, the ability for anyone to vote at all down the line - privately refusing to vote blue for the presidency would not feel like solidarity (partly because it would make the situation I’m refusing to vote over worse, and also potentially make life in the US for Jews and Muslims worse, as Republicans and Trump specifically have enacted things like explicit travel bans before). It would not feel like praxis to virtue signal my refusal to be complicit in one genocide only to be complicit in the all-to-possible ellimination of democracy at home and a subsequent net increase in genocide and funding for it around the world. Voting for Genocide Joe is not cool or satisfying or even right - it’s just the least bad… and honestly for what its worth, the least bad has never looked worse in my life.
Thanks for seriously engaging with my comment, I don’t think anyone else bothered.
And yeah, I’m trans in a red state. If Trump gets elected it could get really bad for me really fast. I really do believe Biden can be pressured on this issue, though, and I’m willing to put my life and safety on the line to do it.
It’s more than just a trolley problem, because my choice to not pull the lever is influencing the trolley’s behavior. The trolley can change it’s mind in this case.
What’s your hexbear username?
Why would I bother?
Best to go work on ranked choice voting, campaign finance reform etc.
Kill Citizens United. Kill the 2 party system.
Yup. I agree, but don’t word it so nicely.
So exactly one issue is the breaking point for you? All the fascism and Nazism that Trump spouts is tolerable?
Genocide is the breaking point for me. I voted for Biden to stop fascism and I got a genocide. I will not vote for genocide again.
Why aren’t you mad at Biden for ruining his own election chances by supporting genocide? Why attack us for opposing genocide?
This genocide has been going on for decades. If it wasn’t a breaking point in '20, why is it a breaking point now?
For fuck’s sake. Swear to fucking god, I can’t tell the difference between the tankies who are disingenuously using this incident in the ongoing genocide to push a “TRUMP NOT SO BAD” narrative, and those who, like most Americans, learned about the existence one of the biggest issues in international politics just last fucking month.
This is worse than it’s ever been in my entire life, surely you realize that?
It’s more prominent. It’s more visible. It catches the attention of those who don’t usually pay attention to international politics. But I don’t know why you weren’t concerned when they were shooting up hospitals full of wounded and shelling children with naval artillery, but are now that it’s proper flashy.
It was genocide. It has been genocide. It will likely continue to be genocide once the current operation finishes. And there’s zero chance that it will stop as long as Bibi’s government is in power.
I’d argue the scale of this is much worse than anything in the past few decades. There’s a reason they’re calling it a new Nakbah.
Nobody voted for a genocide. I certainly doubt that anyone in the USA let alone Biden would endorse genocide.
There are not a small number of people in the US that support a genocide. It was a more popular slogan a couple years ago, but there are quite a few right wingers that would say the phrase ‘six million wasn’t enough’ meaning we need a new holocaust. There are numerous groups with dozens to hundreds of members in the US that support that ideology. If you haven’t heard of the Turner Diaries, it’s a book that advocates a day of white supremacist mass murder of leftists and less ‘racially pure’ people, (referred to as the ‘day of the rope’) it has been popular for decades and is seen as a guide for neo-Nazis.
So now that Biden admin brokered a ceasefire and hostage exchange in the Palestine Israel conflict, is he still genocidal or?
That’s not a ceasefire, it’s a 5 day pause. The genocide starts back up next week.
But this is a good start! This was exactly my intent of threatening to withhold my vote and why it’s important to apply pressure to Biden - he knows he needs us to get reelected and so he’s working to make sure we have a reason to vote for him again.
Keep the pressure up until there’s a ceasefire. No ceasefire, no votes. I just want this one thing. He’s let me down over and over on so many different issues, but if he can give us this one fucking thing I will vote for him. Is that so wrong?
It doesn’t the same, that’s a fallacy spread by short-sighted people who only ever want immediate fixes for complicated problems. There’s definitely a lot of similarities in fiscal policy, but on social policy they couldn’t be further apart.
Just because neither fit your perfect ideal doesn’t mean they’re exactly the same and it doesn’t matter who you vote for.
Opposing genocide isn’t idealism! What the fuck?
I disagree with Biden on a ton of issues! I hated it when he broke the railroad strike, I hated it when he let the likes of Manchin whittle down all of his social agenda, I hated it when he let Texas put razor wire in the Rio, but I can compromise. I get it, he’s not a leftist and he’s not willing to rock the boat and he’s trying to appeal to conservative swing voters. But this is the one issue I just can’t.
This.
Here is the key historical difference between Republicans and Democrats.
Republicans vote red no matter what. Democrats vote conscientiously.
I can’t stand a Democrat having a fervent mindset that they must vote blue no matter what because they are afraid of a Republican. That is what Republicans do.
You CAN NOT stop something by becoming it.
I feel like there is this perception going around that if Trump gets back in, everything else disappears immediately. Its akin to when Obama won and a disturbingly massive group of people were like “welp, that does it. Racism is over.”
If Trump gets back in, he still has incompetent Republican legislators who have their full attention on infighting, The entire judiciary system is going to be just as split over what to do with him, but there will no longer be any ability to claim ignorance if they choose to become complicit with him. Democrat legislators and judges won’t just disappear like The Snap from Endgame. He will also be limited to 4 years in office since he already basically flushed his first 4. He can try to overthrow the 2028 election, again, but we will all be ready for it this time.
I fucking hate Trump. His tweets are super annoying. Democrats don’t vote for genocide. Period.
We can stop Trump by holding Biden accountable and kicking his sorry ass to the curb. The DNC isn’t going to do that though. He has done too good a job making it illegal for unions to strike, cozying up to Xi Jinping (actively saying that Xi Jinping is still very much a dictator and is still actively putting his effort into cozying up with him), and, oh ya, GENOCIDE.
The DNC has 352 days to choose someone, anyone, other than Biden to send into the 2024 election. As long as they aren’t on record calling for genocide, they will sail past Trump to the oval office.
If they do not listen, Democrats lose and that is 100% the DNC/Biden’s fault (the exact same as how it was the DNC/Hilary’s fault for rigging the DNC and not allowing Bernie to beat Trump the first time).
If the Democratic party decides to continue to be what it has become under the leadership of Hilary and Biden, then fuck em. Fuck the whole damn thing.
Biden literally walked the UAW picket line you fucking house plant lol
People like you existed in 2016 when they pouted and complained that Hillary Clinton was a war criminal and that if the DNC yadda yaddas her past Bernie then America deserves what Trump will bring! And then what happened?
Trump got elected, appointed hundreds of right wing judges, including 3 of the Supreme Court judges that overturned Roe v Wade, and lit a tank of gasoline of lunatics on fire who want to turn America into a real life Handmaid’s Tale.
YOU’RE JUST DOING THE SAME EXACT THING
Don’t let perfect be the enemy of the good. Too many people are going to get hurt in very real ways if Trump gets elected. He will do every bad thing you think Biden is doing.
Legislation has been passed setting legal precident to encarcerate a man for not working his slave assignment, but captain “every photo of me looks like it was snapped 2 seconds after they slipped the pureed peas in my mouth” took a photo op before he laid down that LAW.
But, so I’m told, he made sure they got (metaphorical) gift baskets for it.
Fuck off you simple minded boot licking plonker.
I have no interest in sharing a party with you.
You are speaking literal gibberish and deserve the kind of government you’re ignorance will empower. It just sucks that so many other people will have to suffer because of your garbage, short sighted choices.