Both the president and his reelection campaign are going after his coup-attempting predecessor even before the first GOP primary ballots are cast.
A full year out from the 2024 presidential election and nearly two months before Republicans cast their first primary ballots, President Joe Biden and his campaign are assuming that Donald Trump will be his opponent and have already started reminding voters why they threw him out of office in the first place.
Biden personally has stepped up criticism of his coup-attempting predecessor and is framing the likely rematch as one that will determine the survival of American democracy.
“The same man who said we should terminate the rules and regulations and articles of the Constitution — these are things he said — is now running on a plan to end democracy as we know it,” he said last week at a fundraiser in Chicago.
“This next election is different. It’s more important. There’s more at stake. And we all know why: Because our very democracy is at stake,” he told a San Francisco audience on Wednesday.
The barest minimum for holding a politician accountable is not reelecting them.
You may not be from the US, so I will forgive your ignorance on how politics work here.
Long story short, whether you or I like it or not, it will most likely be Trump vs. Biden.
Here in the US, we citizens have severely limited power in suggesting who the political parties run for national elections.
What this all boils down to is that I get to choose between Trump or Biden. I could choose not to vote, but then my voice is heard even less.
I should choose to protest and demand better action by my policy makers and representatives. But I already do that, and I made that very clear to you.
So again, what do you suggest? I’m over here actively trying to cause change for the better, and all you have to say is “Haha typical, won’t do anything”. Are you just trolling?
No youre doing something, voting to reelect Biden. This whole hostage situation is a self fulfilling prophecy, we’re all allowed to vote for whoever, doesnt have to be in any political party, and the person with the most, well, approximately the most votes thanks to the electoral college, gets the elected position. But everyone assumes everyone else is gonna vote for Biden, none that ive met so far that actually like the guy, so everyone votes for him. And this trend of more and more conservative democrats vs crazier and crazier republicans that must be stopped, continues. The guy you want to hold accountable will be rewarded instead, with your help, and the two party system will be even less challenged. I say its a bandaid that needs ripping
Okay but if people switch their vote from Biden to Stein or West or Kennedy then it’ll just guarantee the vote is split between Biden and them and hand the presidency directly to Trump and we both know that’ll just make things worse.
It would take splitting the vote like this for at least a decade for the new party to possibly gain the presidency. Is a decade of unfettered fascist control really going to help anyone?
Pretty optimistic to think they’d still be having elections at that point.
We already had trump. He might still win. Or hell, 2028 when he’s not running against an incumbent. Maybe republicans find a new crazy to rally behind. Basically, this looming threat isnt going anywhere by keeping this status quo, in fact its pretty likely to come to fruition eventually. Its gonna take rallying behind a big shift. Voting in people challenging the whole voting system we have.
“We already had a near impact with fascism once and were fine so let’s just do it again in the hopes it wakes up the liberals into voting for a socialist”
“After Hitler, our turn!” - actual slogan of the Communist Party in Weimar Germany
This often gets ignored or explained away as an observation and not an imperative. It doesn’t change though that they made a fundamental miscalculation that Democracy would persist after Hitler.
Weimar Germany isn’t a lesson about how liberals or communists are the actual fascists – it’s a lesson in what happens when liberals and communists are too engrossed in fighting each other. They used the fascists as a chess piece against the others, instead of uniting against a common enemy. Liberals put Nazis in positions of power to further their goals, and Communists overlooked the danger posed by the Nazis to instead find a way they could benefit.
Thankfully it does seem like most people understand this after 2016. The only holdouts are the couple of people who are very loud online. There’s a reason Democrats held steadfast in the Speaker votes. We understand our divisions pale in comparison to our common enemy.
“liberals voting against fascists are the real fascists btw. People who are fine with fascists winning are the real anti fascists”
We’re not fine. Any metrics i care about have been goin downhill since 2016. They didnt change course in 2020, and would probably worsen in 2024 if trump wins. Or in 2028 if he wins, or 2032, 2036. Might be a 2040 old centrist Hillary vs Trump Jr. I dont see anything good long term with the current voting system.
Okay, then, you realize that Trump winning is just further backsliding into authoritarianism, but not that there’s no feasible left of Trump candidate for 24 other than Biden?
I don’t disagree that Biden is about the worst candidate short of Manchin the Dems could throw out there. However, the solution is getting someone better than that as the nomination In 28 or god willing in 24 not throwing the election to Trump.
Moreover, not backing the incumbent would be THE STUPIDEST thing, especially with Trump’s tactics. “Look how weak the Democrats are, they won’t even back their own guy!” It’d be playing directly into the GOP’s hand.
We’re still backsliding under Biden. Who was a worse option than Hillary, who was a worse option than Obama. I can only expect worse in 2028 from dems. Theres a breaking point of supporting democrats and Biden is well past that.
Let me summarize my response with two words: “No shit.”
Now how about you recommend something tangible. You’re spouting off buzz words like an edgy teenager that wants to rebel against the system. If that’s what you want to do, then say it and let loose with the calls to violence. Because that’s what it seems like you’re alluding to, and you refuse to respond to any of the actual work put forth in the real world.
You really been missing all my emphasis on voting? You can vote for someone other than Biden.
Sorry, it seems you don’t understand US national elections. There will be two options, one being Biden and the other promising to reduce human rights among “certain individuals”.
Should my vote go to the latter?
No, your ballot will have, among other candidates besides those two, an option to vote for anyone that has registered as a candidate.
With First Past The Post voting like we have, no it really won’t. Third parties currently serve as speedbumps, not actual options - they exist purely to pull votes away, not garner actual power. If you’re suggesting some sort of grassroots “vote third party” campaign that inserts, I dunno, AOC as president, I’ll remind you that in living memory, lots of groups have tried. Nader ran the last really successful third-party campaign in 2000, and still only pulled just 2.7% of the vote. Nobody wants to vote third-party, and it’s in large part because they don’t actually advertise, they don’t try to put their candidates out there realistically, and they don’t run realistic candidates anymore at ANY level of politics.
History suggests the exact opposite.
Consider healthcare and Obamacare. What happened when people unhappy with Obamacare not going far enough didn’t vote in 2010? The US swung rightward and the far right grew in power. The only thing that happened with healthcare was the constant Republican attempts to repeal it, and they were almost successful. We almost saw regression on the issue, not improvement.
Think about this another way – if reelection is a vindication to the politics and means their voters see no need to hold them accountable, what happens if a Republican wins? They’ll see their positions as justified and be emboldened. The country will seem to favor conservatism, so Democrats will go the opposite direction and become more moderate. A Republican victory isn’t seen as Democrats needing to be more left and a Democrat victory isn’t seen as Republicans being to be more right. It’s the complete opposite.
The problem is that you’re forgetting this is a zero sum game. If you hold the Democrat accountable, you let the Republican slide. If you hold the Republican accountable, you let the Democrat slide. If you want to hold both accountable and just not vote, you’re letting the candidate at an advantage slide and holding the underdog accountable. There’s no good option. If you want to actually hold both of them accountable, you have to vote FOR the one that’s closer the direction you want to go, and then use your vote as leverage. Politicians listen a lot more to their voters than go non voters. Young people are putting real pressure on Biden because they previously voted for him.
That’s what I’m doing by threatening to withhold my vote! That’s how pressure works. We put pressure on him by making sure his campaign knows “no ceasefire, no votes”. I helped him get into the white-house and I won’t help again if he doesn’t listen.
All you blue-no-matter-who voters have absolutely zero pressure you can apply. You’re locked in. Your voice is worthless.
Please tell me how you can apply pressure without withholding your vote. Calling? They let it go to voicemail. Writing? Shredder.
democrats just have been becoming more conservative. I dont expect that trend to change anytime soon and Im no longer going to support it.
and he ignored that pressure so Im no longer voting for him.
Firstly, that’s untrue. Over the last decade Democrats have demonstrably moved left, and even academic analyses have observed it. Second, as I said, Democrats become more conservative when conservatives win. There’s a reason why Bill Clinton was more conservative than other Democrats and why his approach actually worked. The Third Way, as they called it, was their answer to Republican dominance from Reagan onwards.
Like it or not, Republicans kept winning, and Clinton saw that as an indication that voters were conservative and Democrats were too liberal for what voters wanted. Since then however, the country has shifted leftwards, and Third Way has become unsuccessful because of it. If you don’t vote and Republicans win, and they keep winning, don’t be surprised when Democrats shift to the right because they think voters are conservative. Your actions are perpetuating rightward movement, not stopping it.
Voting for someone isn’t the same as supporting them. That isn’t what a vote indicates. Your vote for someone simply means that you think they’ll do better than the other person or that person is more closely aligned to your beliefs. It’s not like you’re sending a love letter. You’re picking leadership based on who’ll perform better to achieve the goals you want. Voting is a calculated move, not an act of passion.