You should be using all lanes of traffic, and zipper merge at the end.
The main problem with zipper merges in practice are selfish people who rush to zipper and cause even more congestion because of their erratic attempt to merge. Like traffic circles they work great when everyone is doing it right and they cam get really messed up when people do it wrong.
It would be great if zipper merging was taught as part of getting a license. Or they actually required someone to learn how to zipper merge as part of their license renewal.
Do you mean “rush to zipper” as in “using an open lane to move forward and then zipper merge into the remaining lane when that one closes?” That is precisely what you should do.
The problem is the selfish people who refuse to let those people actually zipper merge, like OP.
@Nougat
It’s hard to discuss zipper merging because people use to justify all sorts of dick behavior. Zipping through an empty left turn only lane to skip to the head of a right turn only lane for example. That’s not an example of zipper merging but there’s tons of people who I’ve seen argue that’s acceptable behavior.Those people are assholes.
That’s not an example of zipper merging but there’s tons of people who I’ve seen argue that’s acceptable behavior.
We agree that that’s not what we’re talking about, and those people are wrong. That wasn’t hard at all.
The issue is, at the end of the day, that nobody ever seems to know how to keep a decent distance away from the car in front of them. It doesn’t matter how slow traffic is, leave some space in front of you. It gives you room to slow down in case something happens, and it gives everyone else room to merge.
Zipper merging requires matching speed with the lane you are merging into so that drivers can make gradual changes in speed to make an opening for the person merging. That avoids sending a wave of brake slams that results from sudden unexpected lane changes. If you’re passing a bunch of people, you’re probably not doing a zipper merge.
You’re also much less likely to end up with someone not letting you over if they see you matching speed instead of speeding up to the merge point.
If you’re passing a bunch of people, you are using the open lane to travel. By the time the lane you are in comes to an end, you then modulate your speed to match traffic in the slower lane, and merge. Because cars have brakes.
You need to start matching speed at the start of the signage for the merge. At that point it’s no longer just a lane, it is a lane with restrictions.
You’re not actually increasing total throughput by speeding ahead, you’re only changing the order. The total throughput is determined by the flow of traffic after the constriction point. That flow is smoothest when drivers match speed.
What you’re missing is that the “closing lane” is often designed to be utilized to prevent traffic from backing up into another traffic control device.
While you’re “matching speed” with the open lane that’s hardly moving- traffic has now backed up into an intersection and caused gridlock on cross streets for miles behind you.
So while “total throughput” on YOUR journey has remained the same you may be causing chaos to the roads around you.
Your best bet is to just assume the traffic engineers who designed the closure know better than you.
youtube.com/watch?v=cX0I8OdK7Tk
The middle and last scenario both have people merging in at the end, but only the scenario with matching speed has smooth high throughput flow that alleviates congestion.
The lane hardly moving is usually because of uneven merging at the closure point. If everyone matches speed then both lanes are filled equally. That’s what the traffic engineers say is best.
There’s a problematic entry ramp that I used to drive every day on my commute. Traffic would back up around it every day in rush hour. When I matched speed and zippered in at the end, the congestion actually started to clear a little as the lane being merged into started moving substantially faster without people cutting in out of turn.
I mean speeding at a far higher speed than the other plane and then suddenly slamming on the brakes and forcing themselves into the other lane. Rushing to merge, not just zipper merging at a similar speed.
If the lane being used is still open for forward traffic, that is a completely legitimate zipper merge, although it would be safer to match speed more gradually and, of course, wait for an appropriate space to merge into. As a hypothetical, that’s a borderline case, and it’s certainly possible to adjust the details of the hypothetical to make the merging driver into the dick. But I’m not sure that’s a useful pursuit.
Or just do what they do in Ontario, drive on the shoulder and zipper merge onto the 1 actual lane.
How is matching speeds to merge and finding a space an edge case? That is how merging works.
Not matching speeds is how people going slower than the flow of traffic when merging from on ramps causes issues. Matching speeds when merging is crucial.
No, the problem is the people who incorrectly merge early, making “rushing” possible.
I am not calling it rushing because they are passing, but because they are going a significantly higher speed when starting to merge, requiring them to slam on the brakes and cause the same issues that merging too early causes.
Like going 20+ mph over the posted speed, not just going the speed limit in the open lane.
People who stay in the open lane and don’t pass in the no passing zone and just zipper merge at the end are not the people I am talking about when I say rushing.
Right, and the real fault lies with the early mergers who cause the open lane to exist in the first place, not the opportunistic drivers who fill it.
Early mergers don’t make people speed in the open lane and abruptly merge in an unsafe manner.
You can either work with human nature, or try to work against it. But if you choose the latter, you’re gonna have a bad time.
As someone with a background in traffic engineering, I care about what actually works. Making yourself feel good by passing judgement on drivers doesn’t actually do anything to solve the problem.
Are you saying that human nature is to speed in the open lane if other people merge early?
The other issue is people who have no spatial awareness of their vehicle and need like eight car lengths to merge over.
Done with a modicum of competence: Zipper merges are efficient and you should only merge near the end
In reality? If you see an opening, merge over sooner than later to prevent disruptions to traffic
If you see an opening, merge over sooner than later to prevent disruptions to traffic.
This actually creates disruptions in traffic. Use all lanes, zipper merge at the end.
No, it fucking doesn’t because we don’t live in a perfect world and entitled/dumbasses fill the road. If I’m in the right lane and some chucklefuck is matching my speed in the on-ramp next to me and doesn’t either speed the fuck up or slow the fuck down in the 2 whole minutes they have in that lane, they’re gonna end up slamming their brakes at the end. All it would take is a modicum of awareness to get over and stop this awkward bullshit. That’s just ONE example.
This isn’t a traffic jam. This isn’t the middle of Delhi. We’re talking about normal everyday traffic. It’s 2 cars in a 4 lane highway, and the dumbass can’t even merge.
And no, it’s not my responsibility to make sure they get over. I’m not hand holding idiots.
Point is, we don’t live in a fucking vacuum and all it takes is opening your eyes and judging the situation in front of you accordingly.
God yes.
I am generally a nice-ish person. I’ll try to slow down a little to give them more room. And then they just slow down too because they don’t know how to drive without matching speed with a car next to them. And, fortunately, they aren’t looking at me so I can’t even wave them in. So it is just a waiting game of “Are they going to speed up and cut me off so that I have to slam on the brakes, or are they going to slam on the brakes at the last second and stop their lane until my lane stops to let them in?”
Nobody is saying to force your way in to the merge lane five miles ahead of the closure. If traffic is moving along, move along. But if you see an opening and know the lanes are going to merge? Merge then and there.
I was taught to move left in that case - it eliminates any potential confusion and moves you completely out of the interaction.
We’re talking about two different things then. Open road, light fast-moving traffic, lane ending - the “merge zone” lengthens with that speed and space.
Heavy slow-moving traffic, lane ending, use the lanes which are available and zipper merge at the end. Merging too soon in this situation does create congestion.
In a vacuum it creates congestion, in reality things can be different, usually shitty drivers
For example: I drove a large truck most of last year and people simply will not let you in if you attempt to zipper mete properly in a vehicle deemed slow or cumbersome. They will literally close in as tight as they can on each other knowing that should you hit them you’ll be found at fault
This can even result in the people in the lane behind said vehicle to start zippering at the point behind the vehicle, essentially moving the zipper a car length down the highway. These people also frequently close in and box out that cumbersome vehicle as well.
This technically keeps traffic flowing, but massively breaks flow when the vehicle finally managed to edge enough into the lane to force a merge or someone gives them room to actually get in
Shitty drivers create congestion, yes.
I always defer to commercial vehicles on the road, no matter what. Those people are at work; I’m not. It’s not a perfect analogy, but I also don’t go into retail stores and get in the way of employees, either.
Theory: Everyone down voting you has never driven outside the US.
We don’t teach the proper way to zipper merge, so people block those doing it for cutting in line. It’s a different culture that should be changed for efficiency, just like middle lane squatting, but it’s just not important enough to address.
The United States has a strong general culture of “I got mine, fuck you.” That is certainly playing a part in this thread.
I mean. The UK (particularly Northern Ireland) are gods of zipper merging. It is like all of the queuing is to train them for exactly that. Every single time I felt like an asshole because I slowed down even a km/h or two to “let someone in” when they knew exactly how much space they needed and had it under control.
Germany… I am honestly gobsmacked at how bad Berlin and Frankfurt were at zipper merging. It felt like if I suddenly discovered that nobody in mainland China could make rice without a rice cooker. Like… I think the US might somehow actually be better. And we are HORRIBLE at zipper merges. At least New England, if not Chicagoland.
If I am traveling internationally and driving? The bare minimum is that I’ll ask the person at the rental counter if there are any “gotchas” to be aware of. And if I have any friends in the area, I’ll chat with them on a hangouts/discord call before I fly over.
Hell, I SHOULD do the same when driving domestically but at this point I can handle NYC, LA, Boston, Chicago, and all the stupidity in between so… fuck it and sorry if I cut you off.
But also…
Theory: People think speaking in absolutes based on driver’s ed manuals is stupid? And you actually have to understand “the rule of the road” and how to drive defensively.
It’s not just Berlin and Frankfurt, the autobahn is known for two things in the countries surrounding Germany; no speed limit and people completely skipping the acceleration lane.
In traffic circles, even if someone messes up, the problem is usually resolved and the circle is back to normal operation within a minute or so. Unless someone is literally camped in the middle of the circle, life finds a way.
The number of people I’ve seen use the inner lane to turn out of the circle pisses me off. Change lane to outer circle, then exit the circle. The number of times I’ve nearly been hit because some asshat in a giant truck decided they own all the lanes is too high to count.
My favorite is when they are in the right lane, merge to the middle and back out when going straight so they don’t have to actually slow down and go in the round outside lane, defeating the point of the roundabout.
You mean they just cut through the circle like it’s a straight-away? There’s a circle near me that has 1 entrance-exit pair that happens all the time. And an entrance b/t the two is really hard to see when entering and has nearly zero visibility to that left entering lane. I’ve nearly been creamed by people doing 30mph through there like that.
It’s a shittily designed roundabout but they need some traffic calmers there.
Yes. I have noticed that newer circles discourage this by having tighter entrances and exits that limit the ability to do so, but a lot of older ones were gradual enough that you could go through it without even turning the wheel.
Renewal? Wht is stranger thing.
A thing that existed in the long, long ago in the last millennium.
Seriously, I think I had one license renewal in the late 90s where I had to take a written test and since then I just have to prove I still exist.
But if I catch some dirty shitbag pull out of the lane to get into a clearly ending lane just to skip ahead a few cars…I’m going to glare rather harshly as I let the dirtbag back in.
Then you are the asshole.
Just because they are already in the slow lane doesn’t mean that they’ve already zippered.
…What? You approve of people leaving a lane to enter a lane that is, within sight, ending just so they can zip ahead and force a merge? That will 100% slow down traffic.
And at no point did I say I wouldn’t let them in. It was a joke about assholes who exploit zippering. Are you so called-out that the idea of a glare ruins your day or did you misread the above?
You can’t zipper merge when you’re unable to move forward after waiting until the last second and being pressed up against the road closure.
Having to turn nearly 90 degrees to get to the other lane tends to slow down the zippering.
… Just go to the end and then merge. It doesn’t mean drive up to the wall and then try to turn 90 degrees. The entirety of Europe does zipper merges and it’s an incredibly easy thing to do. You just need drivers that think of other things rather than just themselves.
And that right there is exactly why it’s not gonna happen here
We couldn’t get a significant portion of our population to mask up for a pandemic, we ain’t gonna teach zipper merging to enough people that’ll actually use it for it to matter
I’m not saying anyone should drive up to the wall and try to turn 90 degrees. I’m saying that’s what people do, in the US at least. It just happens and it creates traffic.
You can’t zipper merge when you’re unable to move forward after
waiting until the last secondnot being allowed to zipper merge by selfish assholes and being pressed up against the road closure.ftfy
Zipper merge is effective if it takes place at the end of the line, not the merge point. Essentially as traffic backs up, the merge point should back up as well. That isn’t practical in reality; you can’t dynamically move the merge point IRL.
People are SUPPOSED to use both lanes for as long as safety possible, and then zipper-merge.
Not you Picard… say it ain’t so!!
It’s a zipper merge if the lane closes. Use all available lanes and alternate the right of way to keep traffic moving. It’s assholes who think they’re high and mighty that cause headaches in these situations
I swear I let people merge (to a fault) and didn’t make this meme. I didnt think very hard before sharing this one and was picturing the people in my area who ride the shoulders/blocked lanes and try to cut in front of everybody.
It’s okay. You’re still a national treasure in my book ❤️
Thank you, Mighty Canuck
I don’t let them in until it’s time to zipper merge.
I think it is similar to when lanes merge. Better to stay in lane and then do zipper method.
If lane is open, cars will speed up until they reach merged/closed lane…
What do y’all say?
Yes, the zipper method is much more efficient than a single line of cars 2 miles long before a lane closure.
LPT: don’t take it personally when someone needs to merge.
It is literally a zipper when a lane is closed. By getting in the “line” too early, you are making traffic worse. Memes like this drive me crazy. Not only are you wrong, you are proudly wrong
People really like to double down on their stupidity
States that mandate signs about lane closures being really far out claim it makes traffic flow better. In my experience it just makes traffic stop in a different spot and is likely worse than zipper merges.
My state just recently started posting signs to keep using both lanes so people wouldn’t go to one lane far too early. It was nice to be able to zipper merge without people pushing back.
We just need a traffic cone/barrier pattern to merge the lanes into each other, so that neither has the wrong impression that they’re the main or correct lane
Zipper is best, but good luck getting everyone in traffic to do that shit 😂
OP you fucking idiot, if you expect people to get over two miles back then you’ve artificially extended the lane closure an additional two miles.
People like OP are a chronic problem in the UK.
Yes, I know that “we queue” in the UK. So why not make a number of queues equal to the number of available lanes and then take it in turns when it’s time to merge? Instead of making a single queue multiple lengths longer than it needs to be that will inevitably block even more junctions further back and cause even more traffic, YOU FUCKING MORON!!!
Edit: downvoted by nine absolute mongs that obviously weren’t taught very well in their driving lessons. Not brave enough to put forward a counter argument, are you though?
It’s called a zipper merge, you muppet. They’re doing what they’re supposed to for more efficient traffic flow. You’re just being an ass.
maybe they need a small child to explain it to them
Plenty of situations where this meme applies. In Seattle the West Seattle bridge was out for almost two years. People were routed underneath it where there were two lanes, one that routed into a forced left turn, and one that proceeded straight (where 80% of people wanted to go). Without fail, a huge number of people would “zipper merge” into the right (straight) lane and skip the huge line. Seattleites are such pushovers that they would always let these line cutters in. Which slowed down traffic for everybody: both the people trying to turn left (because they were stuck behind these jokers trying to force their way in) and everyone else who was patiently waiting their turn to go straight.
Seeing people on the Seattle subreddit try to justify this antisocial behavior with false notions of zipper merging was truly enraging.
That’s a flaw of city traffic planning. If that’s the case, then the meme should be Kermit looking at the city planner that decided that absurd scenario would be reasonable.
I’m for the zipper if traffic is heavy, if you can’t get over early you shouldn’t be punished. What I hate is when there is enough space and time for motorists to get over, but they insist on speeding ahead and attempt to play chicken at the merge this just increases the risk of traffic slowing further due to an accident.
By “playing chicken” you mean “following the law and all the god damn driving training guides to do the most efficient thing possible with two lanes merging that would also be the safest if people weren’t possessive fuck cunts when wrapped in a car, the absolutely correct fucking zipper merge” right?
If lane 2 is closed ahead, and you’re in lane 1, I think it’s a jerk move to leave lane 1 to try to rush ahead a few cars and cut someone off when you need back into lane 1
Zip merge isn’t cutting people off tho.
If you erratically jump into my lane, barely a foot ahead of my car, you are cutting me off.
I flow with traffic and leave room for people to merge. But I people right behind me leave the lane and speed by to get one car ahead. It’s pointless.
If you erratically jump into my lane, barely a foot ahead of my car, you are cutting me off.
If you only left 16" of space in front of your car for me to merge into because you think you’ve got the moral high ground due to having merged sooner than needed, then you deserve to get cut off.
Youre letting your sense of “fairness” override good sense.
Using both of the available lanes and efficiently merging from two to one lanes at a designated point instead of at random is far safer and faster than people randomly merging from lane 2 into lane 1 when they are 34 cars back, or 16, or 5, or 105, each time stopping or slowing traffic in lane 2 and lane 1. Those people are being inconsiderate, unsafe, and inefficient. Stop blocking flowing traffic to merge poorly.
Use both lanes, especially if one is open. Dont merge early. Zipper merge at an expected and predictable point so traffic can flow safely instead of start and stop.
I don’t care about people merging who have been in the closing lane for some time, I was pretty sure the original reply was talking about the people who leave the flow of traffic to speed ahead when they know the lane will close. If you’re already in flowing traffic is there a benefit to zooming ahead and cutting someone off?
Again, that’s not wrong, unfair or at all “cutting someone off.” Thats using the empty lane efficiently and safely to speed up traffic. Its the people ignoring an open lane, crawling along that are causing an issue. Its the people merging early out of the largely empty lane that causes an issue.
There is nothing wrong at all about using an empty lane in any context to zipper merge. You thinking it is wrong is literally wrong.
No, it’s being an asshole and thinking your shit matters more. I’m not sure what you’re even arguing at this point. We’re clearly agreeing that zipper merging is most effective, but if you leave a lane to cut back in 1 or 2 cars ahead, you’re an asshole.
I fully disagree that its being an asshole, as does all drivers ed and traffic engineering.
Two lanes or one will fit through a 1 lane naroowed section in a perfectly optimized way at the same speed. 1 lane cab only carry “x” cars per second. But by putting the merge at the choke point, we end up with gaps when people hit the brakes to let the other lane in and don’t accelerate at the same speed. I lane with 10 ft gaps between cars might get through a bit faster because a perfect merge with 10 ft gaps isn’t going to happen. Basically, its the Nagel-Schreckenberg effect except everyone gets stuck slowing to 15mph at the merge instead of merging early and possibly oinng through the restriction faster without issue.
Having said that, there’s no mechanism to enforce early merging other than being a good driver (or the unsung hero’s who straddle both lanes to prevent cutting). I’ve given up. If no one else will drive properly, then why shouldn’t I drive to the very front and push my way in? I’m just punishing myself by doing it the better way because it requires everyone to participate.
Eventually, we can avoid this by using dynamic signs on a gantry over the road to close/open the lane way ahead of time depending on flow and how far back the line goes.
Eh I don’t think lane straddling is a good idea either, if everyone zippered appropriately we wouldn’t need that, and if both lanes are relatively clear we wouldn’t need it either. I think driving will always suck no matter what, “safe driving” is something no one can really agree on. Not to mention there is a section of drivers who believe aggressive driving is not only acceptable, but a way to protect the ego.
I’m all on board with parking our cars I’m a giant garage at the edge of town and riding bikes everywhere. I hate driving in traffic.
This is the real solution. I spent some time in Worcester, England living with a couple there, it was so nice being able to walk to the grocery store and wherever else we wanted to go. I don’t even think I had to wait at any crosswalks or anything. Now I’m living in a big sweaty American city where sidewalks aren’t guaranteed.
speeding ahead and attempt to play chicken at the merge
That’s the zipper merge around here.
To clarify, by “play chicken” I mean dive into the other lane and forcing other people to slam on their breaks. Not merging when they can. My frustration is just around safety, not getting cut off or anything.
That’s wild
People are just driving dude. Don’t assume people are spiteful.
I’m not assuming spite, it just isn’t safe.
In my state use both lanes to merge point is the law and they’ll remind you of it with signs several times on your way to the merge point.
Not sure why people are so up in arms about this. I read this as a jab at those people who speed wildly past everyone else and cut in at the LAST moment. I still let those people in because I find it is almost always safer/wiser to be passive and yield when driving.
“Cutting in” at the last moment is what you’re supposed to do. If the traffic flow dictated everyone to merge earlier, they would make the merge earlier. This entire thread is filled with confidently incorrect. Yes, you’re supposed to “let” people in. And yes, they’re supposed to drive at the speed limit (“speed wildly”) in the alternate lane until the merge.
You yield to the merging traffic because that’s how it’s supposed to work not because you’re somehow morally superior. It’s just that one of you (not you) knows how to obey traffic laws and guidance, and one of you (you) is doing what they’re supposed to do, but only because you incorrectly think you’re being charitable.
Yeah yeah I get all that and I know how to merge. I was talking more about drivers who are overly aggressive and reckless. Especially in construction zones and when there are accidents. And yeah I guess I do think I’m probably a little morally superior to the jackasses speeding and cutting in aggressively/in really unnecessary unsafe manners in their 3-ton f250s.
K
I wish I could downvote this twice. Fuck you.
They’re trying to clown you because “zipper merging everyone should do it” but they’re not thinking about human nature once again.
It’s like communism. If everyone was perfect, leaving enough room and always willing to let people in at the top of the lane without slowing down, then it would work.
But all it takes is one asshole, or even someone that is merely distracted by their kid or something, and the guy in the ending lane has no room and will have to slam on their brakes to stop.
And then they somehow have to merge into decently fast traffic from a dead stop, which is not easy. (Unless of course, the other lane stops to let you in, thus delaying everyone)
The system we do now is shitty, but the alternative if you end up caught stranded is far worse.
If there are so many bad drivers on the road, why are they there?
How are they allowed to pass their driver’s exam?
If they’re not licensed, how are they allowed to drive?
Why are the standards for getting a license or getting on the road so low?
The answer is simple, there is no alternative. Socially the thought of an alternative is considered to be looked down upon if it is even there at all.
Public Transit and Walk-able Infrastructure are fantastic alternatives for people who should not, could not, or would not drive. And with alternatives to driving in place, standards for driving can be made to rise without alienating the population from traveling.
Public transit is too hard, this is much better
deleted by creator
What can I say? Lemmy has totally replaced reddit for me, and I want to see it succeed.
The one downside to collecting/reposting memes is that sometimes I don’t screen one well enough (like this one), and it makes a bunch of people mad. Lol
Hey, thanks for dedicating time to improve the Lemmy community. I didn’t mean to sound snide. I’ve enjoyed many, many of your posts (and I’m a Star Trek fan: STNG master race in space). I just didn’t realize how much you’ve contributed.
Thanks for the kind words! I don’t think you sounded snide or anything. I’m just trying to do my part!
