As an artist, I think it is a net negative for us. Disregarding the copyright issue, I think it’s also consolidating power into large corporations, going to kill learning fundamental skills (rip next generation of artists), and turn the profession into a low skill minimum wage job. Artists that spent years learning and perfecting their skills will be worth nothing and I think it’s a pretty depressing future for us. Anways thoughts?
You are being rude and not making your ideology any more appealing honestly. I don’t care to be insulted and cursed at and it’s not why I said something in the first place. I believe that AI in art is going to be demoralizing for most people and artists in general. I don’t know why you are trying to defend something that was developed by capitalists and technocrats in Silicon Valley.
It is clear you are not an artist and don’t have any interest at all in thinking critically about the systematic issues that would make AI in art such an ethical delimma for so many people.
Then why bother replying with that original statement to begin with? Just saying.
I’m not. If AI art wasn’t developed by capitalists, it would definitely be developed by socialists. It would come about eventually.
I never said I’m an artist. I’m a programmer. Programming is also something I enjoy. That doesn’t mean I know that there is a possibility that my job will get replaced. I know that will happen, regardless if I dislike it or not. The same will happen to Artistry. If we’re willing to regress technology to retain jobs, then aren’t we just petit-bourgeois idealists, rather than socialists?
If you aren’t an artist and don’t appreciate the amount of time, skills, and labor that goes into creating art then of course you wouldn’t see a problem with automating something that is central to the human experience and is the center of many people’s passion and dreams.
It sounds like you don’t care much about your job being automated because you have given up on life for the most part. You’re fine with the prospect of things getting so bad that nobody has any dreams any more. The government isn’t going to step in when everything becomes automated and give us UBI. It won’t be a utopia.
You won’t get to sit on your phone and Linux computer browsing Lemmy and prompting AI art and games. It’s not the kind of reality that you think it will be, if everything gets automated.
It is hard to say whether or not a “socialist” society would advance AI or not but a lot of what I have seen here is computer programmers (not artists) hate on artists or anybody who has dreams to do anything meaningful with their lives.
The reason anything is worth doing is because it is challenging and because it takes serious commitment.
I don’t think you can compare “enjoying” being a computer programmer to somebody who is devoted to being an artist and has spent years perfecting their craft. The problem here is that I see many people implying that they cannot do it themselves when in fact anybody can put in the effort to do anything they want. You could be an artist if you wanted.
It isn’t about retaining jobs, it is about people’s aspirations and drive to keep living. The meaning of life itself. When you take that away, what is left? What are you living for? You’re probably living because you believe in something or have aspirations to be able to spend time doing something that you love. To connect with other people.
This is a really poor take. Programmers spend years honing their craft and work long hours like anybody else. In fact, way morose than artists, programmers are expected to study in their free time after work. If you don’t tell an employer your after work hobby is programming and programming is your only passion, you won’t get hired. We’re all in the same boat, artists aren’t some special enlightened class.
Artists, and I mean this more broadly than just the visual arts, often dedicate their life to their work. There isn’t necessarily a free time after work because most artists have to cobble together multiple freelance and part-time incomes to scrape by. You missed their broader point that programmers are speaking as an authority on a field they know very little about.
Rubbish. Nothing Gopnik Award said is speaking authoritatively to the experience of artists, just to their own experience.
Thanks, and you’re right - they don’t know. Literally, and I mean quite literally, everyone I know who went into programming or CS has done so for the money and status. Who in their right mind thinks that they are going to get rich being an artist? The only guy I know who isn’t at all interested in CS for the money is studying privacy and other ethical issues at the academic level. I know he’s very passionate about cryptology and math, and has devoted a lot of time to educating a lot of people about what he knows.
Artists I think are also use to criticism (especially the more they advance). So are educators or anybody that is in front of an audience.
Programmers and people who are defending AI don’t know what it’s like to have their work criticized and they can’t handle it. It’s because they aren’t artists and will resort to throwing insults or dogpiling instead of actually thinking about the criticism they are recieving.
I’ve been reading this thread and from one communist artist to another, I fully agree with you. I’m on your side. Don’t know wtf is wrong with the other person, they seem to be a materialist reductionist not understanding that we’re trying to improve the human condition, not automate literally everything. It’s sad, but from reading this thread there seems to be a huge dialectical contradiction between artists and programmers in our worldview and goals.
Thanks friend. It’s very sad to me that people would willingly not think critically about something like this, just because they think it’s “cool” to prompt overly rendered images of space aliens and furry boobs.
For somebody who does art as their full-time day job you sure seem to think way more highly of programmers and not very highly of artists. I know you replied to another user saying that you were a full time artist but I doubt that is true. Prompting AI on Mid journey and all the other stuff you listed doesn’t make you a full time artist.
I’m not at war with programmers. My husband is a programmer. Programmers are fellow proletariat and potential comrades. There’s also a lot of overlap, most artists in my field do a small bit of programming as part of their day. Either with code or more often with node graphs. And tech artists spend most of their days only programming but they’re absolutely still artists and couldn’t do their jobs without art skills. You should stop thinking of this as a us vs them.
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Most people enter programming and CS, in general, for the money. I don’t think that anybody who is an artist expects to go in it to get rich. You are wrong about programmers spending more time developing their skills as opposed to artists. I live in Austin and am around programmers all the time - they have the money, time, energy and resources to do and get most things they need and want. My wife and I are in the arts and can barely afford to live but the reason we keep going is because we are motivated to keep going and we haven’t sold our souls.
The one person I know who is genuinely passionate about CS is doing graduate school and studying ethics within the field. He didn’t go into it for the money and honesty I haven’t met anybody else like him.
People often have passions for things. That is true. That does not mean anything when automation is generally trending towards replacing manual labour. Artistry will be like a Tailor, it will be reduced towards something of little value, and eventually no value, as all general trends go when automation is in progress.
I really haven’t, but go off. I feel pretty much fine as it stands now.
Nobody having dreams anymore because their job is being reduced? I’m pretty sure it’s the opposite, but like I said, go off.
Are you imagining this happening under capitalism? You’re just implying that “socialism is when the government does stuff.”
A socialist society should trend towards the development of the productive forces. This includes any industry that should be reduced towards AI. Without the development of the productive forces, we will regress. Also you’re generalising it to the point where programmers hate artists? Go off.
Did anyone have freight when tailors were being reduced to the point where they are working in sweatshops overseas? Or when programmers are being replaced by a ‘code generating assistant’? No, so why should it be the case of artistry as well? You’re just separating the artistry outside every other craft.
What will you be doing when your job is automated, and when there is no value to learning artistic and creative processes? Do you genuinely believe that a socialist government will take over our current system to derail the moral and existential threats of AI? Socialism appeals to me because capitalism doesn’t make any room to consider quality of life and these are the reasons most people are critical of it on a variety of levels.
It sounds like you have given up on life if you think that you can deduce everything as quantitative labor, and feel better about yourself and the situation by reducing a person’s dream as “Oh well, it happened to tailors.”
There are a lot of people in the world who work industrial jobs such as sweatshops with hopes and dreams of connecting with other people through art, either through a job or some kind of community focused on artistic expression. My entire argument is that art is much more important to people than just doing a job - it is beyond “enjoying” something for some money.
It is really odd to me that you consider yourself a socialist and yet seem to have no regard and are arguing against my point that this is having and will continue to have a very negative impact on people’s quality of life. It has already caused despair and it will have a negative impact on education and development.
The way that these programs are used and the way that the data is obtained is unethical and beyond that it is not contributing anything since art never needed to be automated.
Like I’ve said and keep saying, anybody can be an artist if they put in the work. Even my partner, who has a disability, carpal tunnel in her wrist from working at a grocery store pushing 1,000 lbs pallets, takes time every day to work on her skills and has been beset by a number of factors in her life. What keeps her going is that she can work on becoming an artist so she can share her work with other people, and inspire them to do the same no matter how shitty their situation is.
People need something to live for. People deserve to feel like they’re good at something and are contributing their skills and interests to also motivate people to keep going in life.
So you are going to pull out every stereotype on the Internet and shut me and everyone here who doesnt agree with your ideas down completely. Got it.
“Read theory dummy!” “Ignore the Trotsky dumbass!”
This is why the left is so divided and figures in the Internet online sphere of leftist politics have failed to create an environment that is any less horrible to people than the outside world.
They signed off with an ad hominem. You win by default.