Not just those under 40. I do feel bad I sorta got a brief taste of “good times” and worry eventually younger folks will think the post 2000’s are normal.
Yeah, I’m juuuust old enough to have a firm memory of when things that were laughably petty were the biggest problems in the world. You mean to tell me the PRESIDENT got a BLOWJOB?!
All the real issues that sowed the seeds for our intractably broken future were sidelined and mostly ignored. Desert Storm, woowoo go world police. LA Riots, oh you crazy minorities and your intolerance for extrajudicial murder. Climate change, what’s that?
Desert Storm was the good one. Sadam invaded Kuwait, a large international coalition ended the occupation. Today’s analogue would be NATO entering Ukraine, kicking the Russians out, and showing that wars of aggression are unacceptable.
Iraq in '03 was the problematic one. Falsified casus belli, war crimes galore.
Short explanation: The arms Iraqi forces fought with during the Gulf War were largely bought or built by Americans. Isn’t that interesting?
Long explanation: It’s all connected to the Israel-Palestine issues we are seeing this very day. Iraq was dealt a very nasty hand by the UN after the dissolution of the Ottoman empire, becoming a landlocked country, with lines drawn such that they were made caretakers of ethnic enemies and forced to forsake much of their geopolitical power and resources to tribal rivals. It’s difficult to say their claim to Kuwait was justified, but it’s certainly just as difficult to say it was unjustified.
On top of that, we had just gotten done with fucking over Iraq due to their failure in the Iraq-Iran war. They had initially allied with the USSR to prop themselves up, and when that went to shit they turned around and tried doing the west and themselves a favor by grabbing a piece of Iran. We were directly supporting them (anybody taking a punch at Iran is a friend of ours!), and had been increasing our support, but when they agreed to a ceasefire we stopped, leaving them war-torn, deeply in debt, and with really nothing to show for their experiment of working with the west aside from all these shiny American weapons of course.
Medium explanation?: Iraq had been engineered to be an Israel-like anti-Arab agent in the region, but when they failed and sued for peace, we left them no other option but to wage another war to survive. When they went in a direction we didn’t like, we got all our buddies together (including a surprising number of old enemies) and decimated them. Twice!
Not quite. First, the vast majority of Iraqi equipment was Soviet, and the vast majority of the stuff that wasn’t Soviet was French.
French contractors even built the air defense network and control center.
Certainly there are tensions in Iraq as a result of it coming in to being as a constructed nation - nowhere did I say otherwise. However that doesn’t justify a war of aggression against a neighboring country.
Further, Iraq’s casus belli had nothing to do with having a potential ‘claim’ to Kuwait’s land. Kuwait sovereignty pre-dates by centuries. The real reason was Kuwait’s refusal to write off Iraqi debt and refusal to lower its oil product (it was producing above its OPEC quota - depressing prices and hurting Iraq’s exports).
It is true that Saddam thought the West was using OPEC and Kuwait to undermine Iraq. That may be true. Putin thinks the West is using Ukraine to undermine him - so should we stop supporting Ukraine and let Russia annex it?
the post 2000s are normal now. what came before is no more normal now than what came before that. it’s just the past now. it was a different way for things to be that will likely never be again. just like we’ll never be medieval again.
As someone who came of age in the 80s/90s, that’s not true. I can’t describe the pre and early internet-as-we-know-it days, but they hit different. No anxieties over being always-reachable basically.
If it’s any comfort, 99% of human existence before us was worse. 100 years ago no one cared what you thought if the powers that be wanted to send you to war. Don’t even get me started about your life if you were a woman or minority. You don’t like it? There must be something wrong with you, off to the insane asylum for shock therapy.
How is that different than now?
We claim we won’t force you into the military, but if there’s not enough people who want to go to war, we’ll draft you.
If you’re a woman or minority, we won’t kill you outright, but you’ll have reduced quality of life without a conformative man to vouch for you. Bad job selection, lowered wages, political/legal/policing discrimination, doctors assuming malingering and not giving healthcare, etc.
People are still slapped with mental illness diagnoses and denied personal agency too. We shut down asylums, but we created mass homelessness. If you’re a social rebel or outcast, you get a mental illness label that stops you from gainful employment, allows all authority figures to disregard you entirely, and if you make too much noise we’ll send you to a psychiatric ward, give you court-mandated anti-psychotic injections under threat of jail, and even remove your power of attorney or make you a ward of the state.
Oh, and involuntary shock therapy still exists, by the way.
That normalization scares me so much. I’m just young enough to not really have lived before it but I also have a good memory and I have that early 90s slide into horror world seared into my awareness for my entire life. And that deep scariness of everyone around me my age and younger, accepting it as normal haunts me and hurts friendships. That and poverty forcing me into terrible situations.
Not just those under 40. I do feel bad I sorta got a brief taste of “good times” and worry eventually younger folks will think the post 2000’s are normal.
Yeah, I’m juuuust old enough to have a firm memory of when things that were laughably petty were the biggest problems in the world. You mean to tell me the PRESIDENT got a BLOWJOB?!
All the real issues that sowed the seeds for our intractably broken future were sidelined and mostly ignored. Desert Storm, woowoo go world police. LA Riots, oh you crazy minorities and your intolerance for extrajudicial murder. Climate change, what’s that?
Well Obama did wear that tan suit
Without the American flag pin (because it was on his other suit). It’s a shame he hated America so much.
Desert Storm was the good one. Sadam invaded Kuwait, a large international coalition ended the occupation. Today’s analogue would be NATO entering Ukraine, kicking the Russians out, and showing that wars of aggression are unacceptable.
Iraq in '03 was the problematic one. Falsified casus belli, war crimes galore.
There hasn’t been a “good one” since WW2.
Short explanation: The arms Iraqi forces fought with during the Gulf War were largely bought or built by Americans. Isn’t that interesting?
Long explanation: It’s all connected to the Israel-Palestine issues we are seeing this very day. Iraq was dealt a very nasty hand by the UN after the dissolution of the Ottoman empire, becoming a landlocked country, with lines drawn such that they were made caretakers of ethnic enemies and forced to forsake much of their geopolitical power and resources to tribal rivals. It’s difficult to say their claim to Kuwait was justified, but it’s certainly just as difficult to say it was unjustified.
On top of that, we had just gotten done with fucking over Iraq due to their failure in the Iraq-Iran war. They had initially allied with the USSR to prop themselves up, and when that went to shit they turned around and tried doing the west and themselves a favor by grabbing a piece of Iran. We were directly supporting them (anybody taking a punch at Iran is a friend of ours!), and had been increasing our support, but when they agreed to a ceasefire we stopped, leaving them war-torn, deeply in debt, and with really nothing to show for their experiment of working with the west aside from all these shiny American weapons of course.
Medium explanation?: Iraq had been engineered to be an Israel-like anti-Arab agent in the region, but when they failed and sued for peace, we left them no other option but to wage another war to survive. When they went in a direction we didn’t like, we got all our buddies together (including a surprising number of old enemies) and decimated them. Twice!
Not quite. First, the vast majority of Iraqi equipment was Soviet, and the vast majority of the stuff that wasn’t Soviet was French.
French contractors even built the air defense network and control center.
Certainly there are tensions in Iraq as a result of it coming in to being as a constructed nation - nowhere did I say otherwise. However that doesn’t justify a war of aggression against a neighboring country.
Further, Iraq’s casus belli had nothing to do with having a potential ‘claim’ to Kuwait’s land. Kuwait sovereignty pre-dates by centuries. The real reason was Kuwait’s refusal to write off Iraqi debt and refusal to lower its oil product (it was producing above its OPEC quota - depressing prices and hurting Iraq’s exports).
It is true that Saddam thought the West was using OPEC and Kuwait to undermine Iraq. That may be true. Putin thinks the West is using Ukraine to undermine him - so should we stop supporting Ukraine and let Russia annex it?
46 checking in, and yep, shit is on fire. GenX knows what’s up.
the post 2000s are normal now. what came before is no more normal now than what came before that. it’s just the past now. it was a different way for things to be that will likely never be again. just like we’ll never be medieval again.
As someone who came of age in the 80s/90s, that’s not true. I can’t describe the pre and early internet-as-we-know-it days, but they hit different. No anxieties over being always-reachable basically.
It is normal. It’s been this way for ± 15 years. Certainly the entirety of my adulthood and I’m nearly 30.
If it’s any comfort, 99% of human existence before us was worse. 100 years ago no one cared what you thought if the powers that be wanted to send you to war. Don’t even get me started about your life if you were a woman or minority. You don’t like it? There must be something wrong with you, off to the insane asylum for shock therapy.
That’s not the present yet, but a simple reminder that fascism is lurking and war will come because of food, water and mass migrations.
You’re also diabolizing the past. But that’s another matter.
How is that different than now?
We claim we won’t force you into the military, but if there’s not enough people who want to go to war, we’ll draft you.
If you’re a woman or minority, we won’t kill you outright, but you’ll have reduced quality of life without a conformative man to vouch for you. Bad job selection, lowered wages, political/legal/policing discrimination, doctors assuming malingering and not giving healthcare, etc.
People are still slapped with mental illness diagnoses and denied personal agency too. We shut down asylums, but we created mass homelessness. If you’re a social rebel or outcast, you get a mental illness label that stops you from gainful employment, allows all authority figures to disregard you entirely, and if you make too much noise we’ll send you to a psychiatric ward, give you court-mandated anti-psychotic injections under threat of jail, and even remove your power of attorney or make you a ward of the state.
Oh, and involuntary shock therapy still exists, by the way.
That normalization scares me so much. I’m just young enough to not really have lived before it but I also have a good memory and I have that early 90s slide into horror world seared into my awareness for my entire life. And that deep scariness of everyone around me my age and younger, accepting it as normal haunts me and hurts friendships. That and poverty forcing me into terrible situations.