I fail to see how getting it over with in one mass slaughter is an improvement. Look if you’re going to use your political ends to justify violent slaughter of civilians, you have to have a plausible path forward to showing how it achieves your political ends. So I’m telling you right now, walk me through this. How does today get us closer to Palestinians liberation? If you can’t or won’t do that, I’m absolutely going to treat you as though your just a spectator at a horrific sporting match.
You do have to have a viable alternative if you are gonna shit on Palestinian resistance, unlike what you stated
I in fact, do not have to. Just because this shit plan is the only one being discussed at the moment doesn’t mean I have to pretend it isn’t shit.
Hamas and Palestinian forces on the ground know the conditions and stakes better than you do. They have made their decision. It is not your role to question it, only to support it. You have a really hard time accepting your role and instead you want to be an idealist from the heavens, I have interacted with you before and I know this is how you are.
Hamas and Palestinian forces on the ground know the conditions and stakes better than you do.
They know them differently, but considering they’re not operating from the same political or moral framework as leftists, being specifically islamist, I don’t feel the need to defer to their views on the matter.
your role to question it, only to support it.
No one here is supporting it, they’re posting about it on a shit posting website. My role in the shit posting charade is to shitpost whatever I feel like.
instead you want to be an idealist from the heavens
Two nimrods argued in the heavens and the former was better than the latter because the former actually thought he was helping in battle.
No one here is supporting it, they’re posting about it on a shit posting website. My role in the shit posting charade is to shitpost whatever I feel like.
You always use this “it’s just posting none of it actually matters” defense to defend your half-baked liberalism and imperialist both-sidesism. If posting doesn’t matter, why can’t you post correctly instead of like a Liberal coward?
Haha so funny, dodge the point like always and retreat to your smug chamber of “nothing matters but I need to speak up all the time to talk about how nothing matters”
Seriously you should take your own motto more seriously and shut the fuck up
Look, when people start popping corks in the prelude to 10,000 dead Palesitans, I’m going to open up my gaping maw of liberalism and you’re just going to have to come to terms with that fact, if you can be bothered when you’re not busy celebrating the imminent deaths of 10,000 Palestians for no foreseeable gain.
I fail to see how getting it over with in one mass slaughter is an improvement.
I’m failing to see how your concern trolling is particularly relevant to the question of whether or not we should be expressing support for Palestinian resistance.
Your protestations can basically be summed up as “I know what’s best for the Palestinians and their resistance better than they know themselves. Our job as distant observers should not be to support the decisions that those resisting oppression have made, we should instead concern ourselves with armchair quarterbacking and second guessing them out of an abundance of caution that we might end up backing the wrong horse and get egg on our faces.”
You don’t seem to be in possession of any specialized knowledge that would make you a higher authority on matters of strategy and tactics than the people actually organizing a resistance movement who have access to all the same information that you do plus an entire life of living in those conditions and an intimate familiarity with the on the ground reality. This isn’t a rogue group doing some adventurism, this is an effort organized across several different Palestinian resistance groups who will have already discussed the exact concerns you’re bringing up before committing to a joint plan of action.
I’ll listen to your concerns about whether there is a more effective strategy for resistance once you are the one putting your life on the line. In the mean time, I’m going to assume that the people who are actually living through that struggle have a better grasp on their situation than I do, and I’m not going to treat it like it’s my job to second guess them.
I’m not telling the Palestinian resistors anything, I’m telling everyone here who is repeating the exact same folly celebrating at the breakout of ever hostility that has played out throughout history that there excitement and celebration is premature.
It’s the same “we’ll whip johnny reb and send him crying” arrogance and disconnection that absolutely destroyed morale when it turned out into a bloody years long slog. Literally tens of thousands of Palestinians are about to die and pointing that out has a lot of piss babies here up in arms because I’m yuking their yum.
You are once again conflating messages of support with celebration.
Yes there will be horror. There has been horror for the past several decades. Resistance is an act of hope. No one engages in resistance because they are under some false pretense that they will come out unscathed, but because what they are fighting for is worth the sacrifice.
So it falls incredibly flat for you to come in here and tell people “Why are you sharing in the hopefulness displayed by the people resisting? Don’t you know how much sacrifice they are risking?!?!”
listen bro being happy there had finally been any kind of response to the regular killings of Palestinian civilians is fucked up bro we need to weep for the lost Israeli souls as well bro c’mon bro
Not support. The right to loudly be ‘happy’. There are 300 other people in this thread expressing support for Palestine and I haven’t said a peep against any of them. One can and many have shown support without acting like it’s Christmas morning and that there are nothing but candy and nuts on the horizon.
Oh, so you didn’t actually find some celebrating to reply to, you found someone mocking someone else for their both sidesism and used the word happy as the slightest bit of pretext to go on a comment spree ranting about people celebrating the loss of life.
I’m sorry, your moral crusade is so clear to me now.
Look if no on is happy then don’t worry about me, but given I’m getting the exact same “let people have their treats” response doesn’t do much to convince me that’s the case.
I guess I just don’t understand what end you hope to achieve by policing people having a positive response to resistance against genocide and colonization.
Are you just hoping to extol the virtues of stoicism?
Because the point you keep trying to make over and over again is “you shouldn’t be happy, do you know that resisting oppression will actually incite even more oppression?”
Which is barely half a step away from a general defeatist attitude. Your position is basically “You’re allowed to show support, but remember to couch it in extreme pessimism about the hopelessness of ever changing the world for the better.” With friends like that, who needs enemies?
I just don’t understand why that’s the hill you’re choosing to die on. The most charitable interpretation I have is that you just picked a bad position to defend, and you need to stop trying to post through it
I’m extolling the virtue of sobriety, not stoicism. This isn’t a football game where we get to cheer when good team score and bad team fumble. These are real lives at stake, and we should actually wait to see that this current uprising improves their lives before we decide it actually was a good thing.
If Israel launches a ground invasion (which they will) and kills 200,000 Palestinians, and you ask us “was this good” everyone here will rightly answer no. That won’t stop the uprising from being justified and understandable, but it will from being good.
Liberationary struggle is not hopeless, that’s clearly evidenced throughout history, but pretending every revolutionary act of violence no matter how ineffectual it is is good is exactly how you breed adventurism. We know this in a leftist context I don’t know why it’s so hard to transfer that to a Palestinian context.
I fail to see how getting it over with in one mass slaughter is an improvement. Look if you’re going to use your political ends to justify violent slaughter of civilians, you have to have a plausible path forward to showing how it achieves your political ends. So I’m telling you right now, walk me through this. How does today get us closer to Palestinians liberation? If you can’t or won’t do that, I’m absolutely going to treat you as though your just a spectator at a horrific sporting match.
I in fact, do not have to. Just because this shit plan is the only one being discussed at the moment doesn’t mean I have to pretend it isn’t shit.
Hamas and Palestinian forces on the ground know the conditions and stakes better than you do. They have made their decision. It is not your role to question it, only to support it. You have a really hard time accepting your role and instead you want to be an idealist from the heavens, I have interacted with you before and I know this is how you are.
They know them differently, but considering they’re not operating from the same political or moral framework as leftists, being specifically islamist, I don’t feel the need to defer to their views on the matter.
No one here is supporting it, they’re posting about it on a shit posting website. My role in the shit posting charade is to shitpost whatever I feel like.
Two nimrods argued in the heavens and the former was better than the latter because the former actually thought he was helping in battle.
You always use this “it’s just posting none of it actually matters” defense to defend your half-baked liberalism and imperialist both-sidesism. If posting doesn’t matter, why can’t you post correctly instead of like a Liberal coward?
There’s only one way to post correctly, and that’s not to.
Haha so funny, dodge the point like always and retreat to your smug chamber of “nothing matters but I need to speak up all the time to talk about how nothing matters”
Seriously you should take your own motto more seriously and shut the fuck up
Look, when people start popping corks in the prelude to 10,000 dead Palesitans, I’m going to open up my gaping maw of liberalism and you’re just going to have to come to terms with that fact, if you can be bothered when you’re not busy celebrating the imminent deaths of 10,000 Palestians for no foreseeable gain.
If you can’t post correctly, then don’t post.
That is in fact the only way to.
Good then get to work shitlib
You’re gonna make me tap the sign
I’m failing to see how your concern trolling is particularly relevant to the question of whether or not we should be expressing support for Palestinian resistance.
Your protestations can basically be summed up as “I know what’s best for the Palestinians and their resistance better than they know themselves. Our job as distant observers should not be to support the decisions that those resisting oppression have made, we should instead concern ourselves with armchair quarterbacking and second guessing them out of an abundance of caution that we might end up backing the wrong horse and get egg on our faces.”
You don’t seem to be in possession of any specialized knowledge that would make you a higher authority on matters of strategy and tactics than the people actually organizing a resistance movement who have access to all the same information that you do plus an entire life of living in those conditions and an intimate familiarity with the on the ground reality. This isn’t a rogue group doing some adventurism, this is an effort organized across several different Palestinian resistance groups who will have already discussed the exact concerns you’re bringing up before committing to a joint plan of action.
I’ll listen to your concerns about whether there is a more effective strategy for resistance once you are the one putting your life on the line. In the mean time, I’m going to assume that the people who are actually living through that struggle have a better grasp on their situation than I do, and I’m not going to treat it like it’s my job to second guess them.
I’m not telling the Palestinian resistors anything, I’m telling everyone here who is repeating the exact same folly celebrating at the breakout of ever hostility that has played out throughout history that there excitement and celebration is premature.
It’s the same “we’ll whip johnny reb and send him crying” arrogance and disconnection that absolutely destroyed morale when it turned out into a bloody years long slog. Literally tens of thousands of Palestinians are about to die and pointing that out has a lot of piss babies here up in arms because I’m yuking their yum.
You are once again conflating messages of support with celebration.
Yes there will be horror. There has been horror for the past several decades. Resistance is an act of hope. No one engages in resistance because they are under some false pretense that they will come out unscathed, but because what they are fighting for is worth the sacrifice.
So it falls incredibly flat for you to come in here and tell people “Why are you sharing in the hopefulness displayed by the people resisting? Don’t you know how much sacrifice they are risking?!?!”
This is what I responded to.
Not support. The right to loudly be ‘happy’. There are 300 other people in this thread expressing support for Palestine and I haven’t said a peep against any of them. One can and many have shown support without acting like it’s Christmas morning and that there are nothing but candy and nuts on the horizon.
Oh, so you didn’t actually find some celebrating to reply to, you found someone mocking someone else for their both sidesism and used the word happy as the slightest bit of pretext to go on a comment spree ranting about people celebrating the loss of life.
I’m sorry, your moral crusade is so clear to me now.
Look if no on is happy then don’t worry about me, but given I’m getting the exact same “let people have their treats” response doesn’t do much to convince me that’s the case.
I guess I just don’t understand what end you hope to achieve by policing people having a positive response to resistance against genocide and colonization.
Are you just hoping to extol the virtues of stoicism?
Because the point you keep trying to make over and over again is “you shouldn’t be happy, do you know that resisting oppression will actually incite even more oppression?”
Which is barely half a step away from a general defeatist attitude. Your position is basically “You’re allowed to show support, but remember to couch it in extreme pessimism about the hopelessness of ever changing the world for the better.” With friends like that, who needs enemies?
I just don’t understand why that’s the hill you’re choosing to die on. The most charitable interpretation I have is that you just picked a bad position to defend, and you need to stop trying to post through it
I’m extolling the virtue of sobriety, not stoicism. This isn’t a football game where we get to cheer when good team score and bad team fumble. These are real lives at stake, and we should actually wait to see that this current uprising improves their lives before we decide it actually was a good thing.
If Israel launches a ground invasion (which they will) and kills 200,000 Palestinians, and you ask us “was this good” everyone here will rightly answer no. That won’t stop the uprising from being justified and understandable, but it will from being good.
Liberationary struggle is not hopeless, that’s clearly evidenced throughout history, but pretending every revolutionary act of violence no matter how ineffectual it is is good is exactly how you breed adventurism. We know this in a leftist context I don’t know why it’s so hard to transfer that to a Palestinian context.