this is what I mean by cheerleaderism, either for or against, either we say, yay starbucks union or boo starbucks union, and no critical analysis is ever made, nothing is learned. its as if the outcome is based on positivity, and that if we can shield the fragile starbucks babies from any and all criticism they’ll grow up to be big and strong.
“just support them” as if me having positive or negative thoughts about them in my head, by myself in my house will effect anyone’s life. I think it comes from the internet, so its not surprising to see these strange unions-by-tweet where it’s just random people who work for the same megacorp just saying “let’s a do a union like in the movies woohoo” and then kind of do some union like stuff at maybe 5 stores and then nothing happens and the union dissolves a few years later. It’s like a new trendy hashtag. I imagine any real union activist or leader who approaches them, would be greeted with boos immediately as he would not be all totes mcgoats super supportive right off the bat, and say every little thing they did was awesome and special and wonderful and how great they all are for breathing air and drinking water
If a Vanguard existed it could work towards bringing together these union workers and coffee farmers. The problem is that it does not seem like something a Starbucks union would even find interesting or empowering.
This is part of the problem. Some workers rely on the exploitation of other workers. How can this be reconciled? This is why I yawn when the news about Starbucks unions gets around. No one has the answers. I’ve even asked Starbucks workers about this specifically. They just want a better wage. They aren’t looking to leverage the political power of their labor to promote solidarity much less consequencial action.
I’ve repeatedly explained that I think it’s important to educate workers who are organizing ineffectively, and you just keep ignoring that. It’s pretty clear we’re talking past each other here. Have a good day.
hey sorry don’t it take it so personally, I know you post lots of leftist news stories on here, and we all appreciate it. I’m not asking you stop posting about starbucks, I’m more interested hearing everyone else’s thoughts on the subject, not asking you to personally defend them or even stop posting about them. You should be able to criticize them, or criticize what I’m writing about them, if you can’t do either, you could always ask me questions, or you could always just assume I’m a complete idiot and not worth your time and ignore me
I’m not taking it personally, I just disagree with your assessment and I don’t think we’re getting anywhere. I agree with being able to criticize misguided efforts at organizing, I’m just saying that I see the drive to do so as a positive, and the way to really improve things is by educating people. If we simply dismiss the effort then it’s just going to be wasted. If the people organizing get help to steer them in the right direction then there’s a chance it’ll grow into something better.
As I said, people need to be educated. This is literally why the concept of the vanguard party exists.
what is to be learned from “rah rah sis boom bah”?
I’ve explained my point above several times already, I don’t see the point of repeating myself.
this is what I mean by cheerleaderism, either for or against, either we say, yay starbucks union or boo starbucks union, and no critical analysis is ever made, nothing is learned. its as if the outcome is based on positivity, and that if we can shield the fragile starbucks babies from any and all criticism they’ll grow up to be big and strong.
“just support them” as if me having positive or negative thoughts about them in my head, by myself in my house will effect anyone’s life. I think it comes from the internet, so its not surprising to see these strange unions-by-tweet where it’s just random people who work for the same megacorp just saying “let’s a do a union like in the movies woohoo” and then kind of do some union like stuff at maybe 5 stores and then nothing happens and the union dissolves a few years later. It’s like a new trendy hashtag. I imagine any real union activist or leader who approaches them, would be greeted with boos immediately as he would not be all totes mcgoats super supportive right off the bat, and say every little thing they did was awesome and special and wonderful and how great they all are for breathing air and drinking water
If a Vanguard existed it could work towards bringing together these union workers and coffee farmers. The problem is that it does not seem like something a Starbucks union would even find interesting or empowering.
This is part of the problem. Some workers rely on the exploitation of other workers. How can this be reconciled? This is why I yawn when the news about Starbucks unions gets around. No one has the answers. I’ve even asked Starbucks workers about this specifically. They just want a better wage. They aren’t looking to leverage the political power of their labor to promote solidarity much less consequencial action.
minimum wage, universal healthcare, and affordable housing would be way better for these people than any dumb corporate union
I’ve repeatedly explained that I think it’s important to educate workers who are organizing ineffectively, and you just keep ignoring that. It’s pretty clear we’re talking past each other here. Have a good day.
hey sorry don’t it take it so personally, I know you post lots of leftist news stories on here, and we all appreciate it. I’m not asking you stop posting about starbucks, I’m more interested hearing everyone else’s thoughts on the subject, not asking you to personally defend them or even stop posting about them. You should be able to criticize them, or criticize what I’m writing about them, if you can’t do either, you could always ask me questions, or you could always just assume I’m a complete idiot and not worth your time and ignore me
I’m not taking it personally, I just disagree with your assessment and I don’t think we’re getting anywhere. I agree with being able to criticize misguided efforts at organizing, I’m just saying that I see the drive to do so as a positive, and the way to really improve things is by educating people. If we simply dismiss the effort then it’s just going to be wasted. If the people organizing get help to steer them in the right direction then there’s a chance it’ll grow into something better.