• ZILtoid1991@kbin.social
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    1 year ago

    One problem: most smokers start as teens, all while it’s forbidden to sell kids the cancer sticks.

    Addition: I would punish the selling of tobbaco products to kids even more, including the ability of suing the adults for damages in the future (If it won’t cause a cobra problem later on), and also give the ability to non-smoking workers to sue their employers if they give smokers more breaks.

    • Flying Squid@lemmy.worldM
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      1 year ago

      My 13-year-old daughter already has friends who vape. That’s how insidious it is and how deeply embedded in the public consciousness nicotine-based products are.

      • SupraMario@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        Most kids aren’t vaping anything with nicotine in it. Most are vaping 0mg juices and trying to look cool blowing clouds. Nicotine isn’t a super addictive chemical, it’s about as addictive as caffeine. Smoking cigarettes and vaping are habit forming, it’s why almost all smoking cessation forms fail multiple times for people.

          • SupraMario@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/07/100713144920.htm

            https://www.rsph.org.uk/about-us/news/nicotine--no-more-harmful-to-health-than-caffeine-.html

            Nicotine is not incredibly addictive, the habit of smoking is. It’s why NRT have basically a 95% failure rate.

            Habits forming actions like biting your nails, are also incredibly hard to stop and their is no underlying drug there.

            The who nicotine is bad for you and causes cancer is also bullshit. The bad science that was used against smoking and still used today was done for the public good. It’s why a lot of studies are starting to come out that, nicotine isn’t what’s the issue…the inhalation of smoke and the habit of doing so are.

            • FuglyDuck@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              Sorry but no. habits generally take weeks to months to form. that smoking becomes habitual certainly makes quitting harder. there is no doubt there. but, if smoking was far less addictive, it would be far less likely to ever develop as a habit. Remember, that nicotine from smoking (or vaping) starts affecting your brain essentially instantly, creating a dopamine hit, as well as the other affects. it is that which makes nicotine addictive. not some random associated habits that developed over weeks or months.

              Also your sources aren’t very good. In the first, there’s no direct link to the studies in question, but based entirely on what was said int he article… I’m doubting very much they took into consideration the use of alternatives by flight attendants- patches and gums are extremely common among FA’s that smoke; specifically to manage the cravings while they’re forbidden from smoking. And from what I can tell with a quick search (I’m far from authoritative here,) snuff has been used as an alternative to smoking on shabbat… from pretty much the first time it was brought to Europe, so I would have to assume patches are also a viable method of controlling cravings there as well.

              In any case, nobody really says that nicotine causes cancer. At least, no one even remotely honest.

              tobacco use causes cancer. As RSPH notes:

              Nicotine is harmful in cigarettes largely because it is combined with other damaging chemicals such as tar and arsenic,

              however it goes on to be wrong about one thing:

              Electronic cigarettes and Nicotine Replacement Therapy (gum, lozenges, and patches) contain nicotine but don’t contain the harmful substances found in cigarettes.

              vapes frequently contain toxic chemicals. many are frequently contaminants from extraction; some are added as flavoring or turn into toxic chemicals because of being vaporized, which changes chemical structures. (1, 2, 3, 4, 5)

              Nobody really knows for sure what the long term impacts of vaping is- even if the vape juice is just water; we don’t really know if it’s safe or not. One thing people do know is that Nicotine is addictive, and that you keep saying it’s ‘not that bad’ makes me think maybe you’re trying to justify something. I don’t care if you smoke or vape. nobody here does. But I do care that you’re spreading misinformation about things.

              Talk to any one whose tried quitting both caffeine and nicotine. there’s really no comparison between the two; and saying there’s not is patent bullshit.

        • 𝔹𝕚𝕫𝕫𝕝𝕖@midwest.social
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          1 year ago

          I just quit vaping like a week or two ago and it was fucking miserable for a week straight. Caffeine isn’t nearly as bad when I’ve quit that, but nicotine withdrawals are fucking horrible and they feel like they last forever.

          • SupraMario@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            I quit caffeine and it took me 2 weeks of shakes and fevers to get over it. The withdrawals were horrible. I smoke cigars and pipe tobacco regularly and quit every winter with no issues.

            • Stumblinbear@pawb.social
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              1 year ago

              That sounds like some D.A.R.E. bullshit. If that’s the case then I’d be perfectly fine trying heroin once because I won’t get addicted to it. I’ve tried nicotine a few times, now, and I have less than zero interest in trying it again. You can make your point without being hyperbolic

              • JoeBigelow@lemmy.ca
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                1 year ago

                You probably wouldn’t get addicted to heroin on the first try… Have you never taken opiate painkillers? Were you immediately addicted after your first dose? Sounds like DARE failed you as well.

                • SupraMario@lemmy.world
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                  1 year ago

                  You do not get the same high with nicotine as you do with heroin. It’s a bullshit lie told to kids to keep them from smoking. So many of you seem to have swallowed this crap hook line and sinker.

                  • JoeBigelow@lemmy.ca
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                    1 year ago

                    And you’ve demonstrated that you don’t understand what addiction is or how it works. Its not about the strength of the high you mope its about how the chemical interacts with your brain

            • angrystego@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              The review study I linked says vaping doesn’t have higher success rate when it comes to stopping.

            • Risk@feddit.uk
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              1 year ago

              links single paper supporting point amongst the hundreds that refute it

              paper is written by a guy on the payroll of a tobacco company

              Lmfao.

          • SupraMario@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            Yes the same FDA who pushes for NRT…the same NRT that have people failing to quit…and committing suicide while on them…also no where in your link does it show what mg kids are vaping.

            https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28850065/

            ASH surveys showed a rise in the prevalence of ever use of e-cigarettes from 7% (2016) to 11% (2017) but prevalence of regular use did not change remaining at 1%. In summary, surveys across the UK show a consistent pattern: most e-cigarette experimentation does not turn into regular use, and levels of regular use in young people who have never smoked remain very low.

            1% is what your looking at for kids that get addicted to vaping…

        • Flying Squid@lemmy.worldM
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          1 year ago

          What evidence do you have that this is not detrimental to their health and development? Because as far as I know, no major studies have been done.

        • Lazylazycat@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          That isn’t true, Elf bars and Lost Marys are so easy for kids to get hold of and it is 100% what they’re using.

          • SupraMario@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28850065/

            ASH surveys showed a rise in the prevalence of ever use of e-cigarettes from 7% (2016) to 11% (2017) but prevalence of regular use did not change remaining at 1%. In summary, surveys across the UK show a consistent pattern: most e-cigarette experimentation does not turn into regular use, and levels of regular use in young people who have never smoked remain very low.

            • Lazylazycat@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              That data is 6 years out of date and times have massively changed. Seriously, just go walk down the street after the kids have finished school for the day and your eyes will be opened.

              This report is from 2 years ago so still out of date, but you can see the change that happened just in the 4 years between this and the one you linked:

              https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/vaping-in-england-evidence-update-february-2021/vaping-in-england-2021-evidence-update-summary

              Under half (43.0%) of 11 to 18 year olds who were current and former vapers reported always using vaping products that contained nicotine – 17.3% reported always using nicotine-free products. Three out of five (61.3%) 16 to 19 year olds who had vaped in the past 30 days used nicotine in their current product – 17.3% said their product did not contain nicotine.

              Over half (58.2%) of 16 to 19 year olds who had vaped in the past 30 days did not feel addicted to vaping but 38.5% said they felt a little or very addicted.

              Just under a fifth (18.4%) of current vapers aged 11 to 18 reported experiencing urges to vape almost all the time or all the time.

              More 11 to 18 year olds who had tried vaping said they had:…

              tried a vaping product and never tried smoking (28.9%)

        • uis@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          Thanks, troll, for mixing valid points with blatant bullshit.

          Also caffeine is neurotoxin.

    • Zellith@kbin.social
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      1 year ago

      Yeah, but then ultimately it becomes illegal for everyone to own them. Meaning shops cant sell them.

      • Risk@feddit.uk
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        1 year ago

        Yeah, honestly I think it would make more sense to increase the age at which it’s legal to sell to 25 (under the justification that supposedly that’s when your brain has finished developing), and then allow it from there on to prevent it becoming a way to support illegal activity.

    • jonne@infosec.pub
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      1 year ago

      I think New Zealand implemented a similar measure some years back, it should probably be good to see how well it works there. Hopefully this doesn’t create a black market for tobacco.

      • deadbeef79000@lemmy.nz
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        1 year ago

        Yes we did. Have not heard anything about it since… so it’s probably working as intended.

        We’re currently freaking out about vape shops springing up every ten feet.

        • Dontfearthereaper123@lemm.ee
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          1 year ago

          My first cig was illegally imported and sold by a dealer involved with gangs. All its done is make people get tobacco from their dealer rather than the guy outside the shop.

    • Atomic@sh.itjust.works
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      1 year ago

      And where does teens get the idea to smoke from? Is it from grandpa that coughs louder than a jet engine? Or is it the older cooler teens who got the idea from older teens, who got the…

      You get the point.

      I smoked as a teen because some of my friends did, they smoked because some of their friends did. And you don’t have to look very far to find the 18-20 year olds who provided them.

      Luckily, I never smoked much and mostly kept it to social smoking which made it very easy for me to quit once I grew up and developed some brain-cells that enjoyed co-operating with eachother.

    • wolfpack86@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      Yeah but the 18 year old buys for the 15 year old-- brothers, sisters, upperclassmen, etc.

      The more that gap becomes larger, the less likely they have social interaction and access. How many 40 year olds buy for 15 year olds today? In 20 something years, 40 year olds will be the youngest purchasers.

    • Echo Dot@feddit.uk
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      1 year ago

      also give the ability to non-smoking workers to sue their employers if they give smokers more breaks.

      Yeah, one of the best bits of WFH is that I can take as many breaks as my nicotine obsessed colleagues.