But Ukraine’s president fears that some of his country’s Western backers are losing faith

“There is no way of predicting how the millions of Ukrainian refugees in European countries would react to their country being abandoned. Ukrainians have generally “behaved well” and are “very grateful” to those who sheltered them. They will not forget that generosity. But it would not be a “good story” for Europe if it were to “drive these people into a corner”.”

  • Blursty@lemmygrad.ml
    1021·
    9 months ago

    Well of course he wouldn’t? Does anyone still believe in Russiagate? Aren’t there enough real things to pin on Trump that you shouldn’t need to resort to making stuff up?

    This little wanker is threatening Europeans with terrorism? WTF?

    • Geek_King@lemmy.world
      143·
      9 months ago

      Did Donald Trump directly ask Russia for help winning the election? No. Did Russia want Donald Trump to win so he’d sow chaos and division? Yes.

      Russia’s troll farm did their level best to help him win. Russian entities bought ads on facebook targeting swing states with inflammatory ads like “HILARY WILL TAKE YOUR GUNS”.

      [https://www.wired.com/story/russian-facebook-ads-targeted-us-voters-before-2016-election/](How Russian Facebook Ads Divided and Targeted US Voters Before the 2016 Election)

      Russian hackers released the info about Hilary’s email server, which hurt her severely in the election. Donald Trump has spoken glowingly about Putin on many occasions:

      [https://www.npr.org/2022/02/22/1082478790/trump-praises-putin-as-savvy-amid-new-escalations-on-russia-ukraine-border](Trump praises Putin as ‘savvy’ amid new escalations on Russia-Ukraine border)

      So to paint it as “Russiagate” and as something that isn’t real is a bit disingenuous and simplifying something to minimize it’s importance… It’s complicated, but clearly if Russia prefers Trump over any other candidate, there’s a reason for that.

        • Geek_King@lemmy.world
          11·
          9 months ago

          Yeah I remember that as well, and I was surprised that it didn’t even move the needle during the investigation. The investigation was looking for direct enlisting of help from russia as an agreement. Him saying “Russian, if you’re listening…” was flippant and didn’t prove what the investigation was looking for. It sucks, because if a hostile nation is rooting for one candidate over another due to the chaos and division he’ll sew, that’s a very bad sign. Here we are years after his 1 term, and we’re still fractured in a way no one in living memory has seen. This sucks, I have no idea how to even begin to heal the damage this moron has caused.

      • Blursty@lemmygrad.ml
        3·
        9 months ago

        Russia’s troll farm did their level best to help him win.

        You think a “troll farm” can influence elections? Imaginary or not? Really? Okay, but that’s not Russiagate.

        Russian hackers released the info about Hilary’s email server, which hurt her severely in the election.

        You should be thanking them no?

        Donald Trump has spoken glowingly about Putin on many occasions:

        Okay?

        So to paint it as “Russiagate”

        I didn’t. You don’t know what Russiagate is.

        if Russia prefers Trump over any other candidate, there’s a reason for that.

        Because Biden is worse? As has been proven now.

        • Geek_King@lemmy.world
          1·
          9 months ago

          You think a “troll farm” can influence elections? Imaginary or not? Really? Okay, but that’s not Russiagate. Yes, in swing states a few hundred votes is the difference between one candidate vs another candidate, so targeted inflammatory ads to motivate more people to get out and vote definitely can make a difference. That’s why Facebook sell adds to a hostile nation to influence elections is dirty as hell.

          You should be thanking them no?
          If Hilary’s emails were such a big deal then when the FBI investigated they would have charged her and her IT staff, they did not. Those email leaks were designed and timed to hurt Hilary and help Trump.

          Trump has shown over and over again that he idolizes dictator strong men. He’s like a groupie when it comes to Putin, that isn’t a quality we should have in a President. Or do you think Russia has the U.S.'s best interests in mind, and they’re our friend?

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_interference_in_the_2016_United_States_elections Date June 16, 2015 – November 8, 2016 Also known as Russian interference in the 2016 United States elections Motive Destabilization of the United States Election of Donald Trump Removal of U.S. sanctions on Russia Perpetrator Russia[who?] Outcome Trump elected president Mueller probe

          Because Biden is worse? As has been proven now. Because Fox News told you he’s worse? When you consume straight up lies it’s pretty crazy how much it twists your perspective. Please provide me some evidence that Biden is objectively worse then Trump. There are so many horrid things Trump did, as opposed to the imagine shit Fox News spews about the “Biden Crime Family”. 20 years ago I would have said that both parties were pretty similar, just slightly different opinions. But now, we have one party that lives in reality, and one that doesn’t. One party that wants to help make peoples lives better, and one that just wants to shit on the disadvantaged, the vulnerable, while stripping rights from the American people, and of course giving tax breaks to the richest and huge corporations.

          • Blursty@lemmygrad.ml
            11·
            9 months ago

            Yes, in swing states a few hundred votes is the difference between one candidate vs another candidate, so targeted inflammatory ads to motivate more people to get out and vote definitely can make a difference. That’s why Facebook sell adds to a hostile nation to influence elections is dirty as hell.

            In the land of free speech the dollar is king. But again, Russiagate was the idea that Trump was working for Russia.

            If Hilary’s emails were such a big deal then when the FBI investigated they would have charged her

            The FBI literally rigged the last election against Trump. Do you not know anything about the USA? All their elections are rigged. It’s the crappest attempt at democracy in the world even if it was real.

            Trump has shown over and over again that he idolizes dictator strong men. He’s like a groupie when it comes to Putin, that isn’t a quality we should have in a President. Or do you think Russia has the U.S.'s best interests in mind, and they’re our friend?

            Yeah Trump is just another scumbag, he couldn’t be an American president if he wasn’t. he only has his own interests in mind, not Russia’s nor America’s.

            Wikipedia is heavily edited by the American secret freedom police. It’s not a source for political news.

            Because Fox News told you he’s worse? When you consume straight up lies it’s pretty crazy how much it twists your perspective. Please provide me some evidence that Biden is objectively worse then Trump. There are so many horrid things Trump did, as opposed to the imagine shit Fox News spews about the “Biden Crime Family”. 20 years ago I would have said that both parties were pretty similar, just slightly different opinions. But now, we have one party that lives in reality, and one that doesn’t. One party that wants to help make peoples lives better, and one that just wants to shit on the disadvantaged, the vulnerable, while stripping rights from the American people, and of course giving tax breaks to the richest and huge corporations.

            I’ve only ever seen Fox news on clips on the web, it’s not on tv here. Child poverty has doubled since Trump, police murders of the black people Biden despises have skyrocketed since his further militarising them, living costs have increased along with poverty in general, healthcare continues to worsen, started a proxy war in Ukraine (although Trump probably would have too) in his Crime family’s favourite haunt, a place where he’s bragged about crookedly bribing in the past,… maybe you can point to something that’s improved?

            One party that wants to help make peoples lives better, and one that just wants to shit on the disadvantaged, the vulnerable, while stripping rights from the American people, and of course giving tax breaks to the richest and huge corporations.

            You really think you’re not describing the Dems here?

            • Geek_King@lemmy.world
              11·
              9 months ago

              Oooh I see, you don’t live in the US, so you have no idea what it’s actually like here, as evidenced by you stating that all US elections are rigged which is patently false. The closest elections get to being rigged is all the gerrymandering the republicans use to ensure they have advantage in local elections which then helps them have more control on a national level. I adore that you state Wikipedia can’t be trusted, but link to some rando’s paranoia blog for proof that the FBI rigged the election. Holy shit, I think I’m arguing with bot designed to push propaganda lol. Begone troll, you know not of what you speak, for your words hold zero weight or import.

              • Blursty@lemmygrad.ml
                1·
                9 months ago

                Wasn’t Dubya’s election result “wrong”?

                but link to some rando’s paranoia blog for proof that the FBI rigged the election

                The one which quotes Mark Zuckerburg directly about exactly how the FBI censored multiple websites to ensure their guy got in?

                At least be honest with yourself.

    • TokenBoomer@hexbear.net
      41·
      9 months ago

      I still believe in Russiagate. I’ll let PoppinKREAM of Reddit explain it better than I ever could. Don’t be gaslit into believing it didn’t happen.

        • TokenBoomer@hexbear.net
          1·
          9 months ago

          I was under the impression that parts of it are true. That Paul Manaforte gave voter information to Russian officials. That Trump planned to build a hotel in Moscow. There were emails between Kushner and Russians. That there was a Trump tower meeting to remove sanctions. Did those things not happen?

          • StalinwasaGryffindor [he/him, comrade/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
            3·
            9 months ago

            So when people use the ‘gate’ suffix it’s a reference to the watergate scandal, where Nixon paid for people to break into Democratic Party headquarters and the subsequent cover up of that crime. This is a really concrete conspiracy, where you can point to exact events and why they were criminal.

            With russiagate I don’t believe there is anything close to a sequence of events that elevate what just looks like sleazy business deals to the level of conspiracy. It’s a vague term and I just want to understand what you mean when you say you believe in russiagate.

            Also, I hope I’m not coming across as hostile or pedantic, I’m just genuinely hoping to understand your thoughts

            • TokenBoomer@hexbear.net
              2·
              9 months ago

              Okay. It’s just that Trump and his connections to Russia are partially responsible for moving me far left. I learned of these connections before 2016. Not to say that they were all true. But there’s enough smoke there. So I wanted to learn why people voted for him. This lead me to authoritarian personality disorder, hierarchy and eventually capitalism. So it’s a little weird to see people dismissive of Trump’s ties. Mueller even said in the report that he should be prosecuted for obstruction if he wasn’t President.

      • Blursty@lemmygrad.ml
        31·
        9 months ago

        A 4 year old post on reddit from before it was all thoroughly destroyed. Quality contribution there Einstein.

            • TokenBoomer@hexbear.net
              21·
              9 months ago

              Thanks. The Nation article concerns the Russian disinformation campaign in 2016. Russia’s involvement was always going to be difficult to calculate. It says nothing about Trump and his campaign’s ties and business dealings with Russian officials. You can say Russiagate didn’t happen all you want, but it doesn’t change the facts. Paul Manaforte owed money to Oleg Deripaksa. Manaforte admitted to giving voter polling data to Kilimnik. Michael Cohen pled guilty to lying about Trump Moscow tower. Russians](url) tried to hack state election systems.

              Are you saying these things didn’t happen in our reality? Clinton’s campaign may have exaggerated the effectiveness of Russian interference. The Steele Dossier is an example of that. But to say there was no interference and that Trump and his team had no connections is pure disinformation.

              • Blursty@lemmygrad.ml
                11·
                9 months ago

                But to say there was no interference and that Trump and his team had no connections is pure disinformation.

                Do you have anything at all to back that up? What interference was there? Your links above are about random business dealings. If you believe there was interference you must have some reason to?

    • loathesome dongeater@lemmygrad.mlEnglish
      56·
      9 months ago

      Don’t believe in Russiagate but he was definitely cosier with Putin than other US presidents. It would have been interesting to see how he would have handled this “dilemma”. My guess is he would have had no choice but to support Ukraine and alienate Putin. No way he would have been allowed to impede this war.