• @h14h@midwest.social
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    4787 months ago

    This kind of gatekeeping and elitism is bad for Lemmy and for FOSS.

    It makes this community a less welcoming place and leaves new folks with a bad first impression. Much better to be welcoming and let people learn/see the benefits of FOSS at their own pace.

    • @dzonc@lemmy.world
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      1977 months ago

      I’d given up on lemmy because every so I had tried was unfinished and unpolished. I tried sync and finally felt like the user experience wasn’t getting in the way of content.

      I’d love to support foss, if a genuinely comparable experience existed.

      I’m glad to say that sync has revived my interest in lemmy.

      • @machinaeZER0@lemm.ee
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        7 months ago

        You should check out Thunder, even if you gave it a try at some point - it’s super polished and it’s gotten even better week after week. In my opinion it has the best compact mode of all the lemmy clients, as long as you don’t mind swipe actions!

        • @thimantha@lemmy.world
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          277 months ago

          I was using Thunder last week until Sync’s open beta got approved and the User Experience and the interface of Thunder is nowhere near Sync. It’s a night and day difference, and a difference that would have made me use Lemmy less and less.

          • @machinaeZER0@lemm.ee
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            117 months ago

            Thunder is like a month old - it’s still growing and will continue to improve with the community’s help :) if you think anything could be improved, definitely shout it out on the GitHub page!

            • @thimantha@lemmy.world
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              37 months ago

              I understand that it’s new, and it is definitely the best FOSS Lemmy app out of the dozens that I used. But it has a very long way to go to achieve the same level of User Experience that Sync has. It’s not even close and I don’t think anything bar a major UI/UX rehaul could fix that.

        • @xenspidey@lemmy.zip
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          127 months ago

          Not OP, but I’ve tried thunder. It’s OK. Sync is light years above all other clients I’ve tried. (same with reddit as well) swipe actions? Sync is the king of swipe actions.

          • @machinaeZER0@lemm.ee
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            47 months ago

            I mostly meant if OP was interested in FOSS :) Sync has been fine too in my short time with it today, but personally I’m still quite taken with Thunder. Excited that all the Sync fans are excited!

            • fmstrat
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              27 months ago

              Me too. I’m sticking with Thunder. Its so close.

          • ferret
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            27 months ago

            Back in the reddit days, Apollo had the best swipe actions out there. Sad to see it gone

            • @xenspidey@lemmy.zip
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              17 months ago

              Never used Apollo (don’t use ios) so I wound assume that means Apollo and Sync swipe actions are the same.

      • @jerkface@lemmy.ca
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        107 months ago

        FOSS doesn’t need your support. You misunderstand the relationship. FOSS is looking out for you.

      • @Zalack@startrek.website
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        67 months ago

        IMO FOSS has really great offerings when it comes to libraries or other highly technical code.

        But something about either the community or incentive structure results in sub-par UI/UX. Obviously not a rule, but definitely a trend I’ve noticed.

        • @Meloku@lemmy.zip
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          77 months ago

          Don’t forget the community’s reaction to comments like yours, why down vote him if he’s stating the obvious? FOSS projects often focus so much on technical features because everyone wants to flex their code-fu, but nobody gives enough time to UI/UX. Just look at pretty much every Lemmy web frontend, fugly webpages with early 2000s look-and-feel, usually slow and/or buggy, and with little to no user feedback.

        • @Khotetsu@lib.lgbt
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          27 months ago

          I’ve seen it for years and years now, and I can only conclude that it’s down to the kinds of people who are attracted by these kinds of projects.

          They’re tech literate at a professional level by necessity in order to engage with these things at an early time in their development, and this seems to drive a mentality that makes UX design kind of an afterthought, since they already know how to do the things they want the software to do, and they’re not focused on how less tech literate users will handle it.

          Then you add in the small minority of gatekeepers that wind up in every community, who feel that a larger, more generalized userbase would be invading their niche community, and you end up with stuff like the Linux forums where asking a simple question would get you a series of remarks that essentially boil down to “go fuck yourself, you should know how to do it already.”

          I feel like the people concerned with UI/UX come into these kinds of projects later on after they’ve matured a little, rather than right from start, and this causes resistance to their changes because the userbase is already entrenched in the current UX, especially from the gatekeeper folk in the community who see a higher tech literacy threshold as a good thing.

          • @Zalack@startrek.website
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            7 months ago

            That’s very subjective. I have yet to find a Linux desktop I like as much as MacOS, especially when it comes to WACOM drivers. The stylus response time/curve almost always feels wrong.

            Also, I’ve worked with designers who can get something that looks and feels fully professional on a first pass, so it’s not just newness for Lemmy.

    • @DigitalPortkey@lemmy.world
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      1017 months ago

      This is why I unsubscribed from the Android community. I love Android, I use nothing but Linux at home and really appreciate open source software.

      But the FOSS…enthusiasm is starting to border on zealotry. It’s getting really unpleasant.

        • @rbits@lemm.ee
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          227 months ago

          I use Linux as my daily driver, yet I 100% believe Linux is overrated. It’s great if you’re willing to put in the work to get it working well, or maybe if you have someone else to do all your tech support for you, but it’s just not a good option for the majority of people.

          I hate when people keep trying to push it on Windows users, especially when they go on about how “easy” it is. It’s not. And doing that will get people to try it out with high expectations and then get disappointed when they try it out and that’s not the case.

          • @Rodeo@lemmy.ca
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            27 months ago

            I honestly feel like people who say this stuff either haven’t tried Linux since 2008 or went straight to Arch.

            I use Manjaro as my daily driver and I never need to fix the system. It really does just work, and these a bunch of disyros out there that do.

            The only thing you might find terrible is trying to run windows programs on Linux, to which I say: dual boot! Even with all the progress Proton, Lutris etc. have made, it’s still way easier to just boot into windows on the occasion you want to play games or whatever.

            • @rbits@lemm.ee
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              7 months ago

              I switched to Linux last year, and I used Linux Mint, which people say is the easiest, and then KDE Neon which I’m still using now, which is definitely way better than Linux Mint but it’s still not easy. I’m fine with it, and I personally prefer it to Windows, but I could never imagine my parents or my friends trying to use it without help.

        • @DigitalPortkey@lemmy.world
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          197 months ago

          I love Linux. I love the flexibility it gives me and I enjoy tinkering when I feel like it and having something rock solid and reliable when I don’t. I don’t game on the PC, so this works out great for me. However, my use case isn’t everyone else’s, and part of the idea of giving people freedom to use their computer the way they want is accepting that sometimes they want to use their computer in a way that you don’t like.

          Maybe that means using a proprietary operating system. Maybe it means using a search engine that you don’t like. But that is what works for them, and sometimes I think the open source people operate on the fallacy of “there’s two types of people, those who use FOSS and those who haven’t found FOSS yet”, and it’s just so obnoxious.

          You think people go nuts when you tell them you prefer WIndows? Wait until you see their heads spin when I tell them that while I use Arch Linux, I also use Google Chrome, Telegram, Spotify, and Discord…

          • Melody Fwygon
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            107 months ago

            God yes this is so freaking annoying.

            As much as I adore FOSS and hold it near to my heart; Most FOSS software just doesn’t have a lot of polish. That isn’t a fault; but some of the zealots take it that way; and that last 5% of polish is sometimes required, and is absolutely critical to some users’ workflows.

          • @LeFantome@programming.dev
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            27 months ago

            I hear you. I am an Arch user as well but my primary browser has become Microsoft Edge. My preference would be Firefox but it has lots of problems, especially with some of the video conferencing apps I use for work. I am in Outlook all day as well ( on Edge ). Spotify is certainly in the mix.

        • @Resistentialism@lemmy.world
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          107 months ago

          I had to leave the Linux memes community because I swear nearly every post was shitting on Windows. Yes, I get it. Windows isn’t all that great. But, much like Ios, it just works for what I need. And I haven’t had any issues that weren’t ny fault with it.

          If the game I play most, and the number one reason why i go on my pc, works on Windows, but won’t work on Linux. Which OS is better for me?

          I thought all this software war crap era was over. That was shit I cared about when I was 14 or something. Just let it herself use what they want and explain the benefits of alternatives, only if they care.

          • @Rai@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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            17 months ago

            FirEfoX iS bROken weBSitEs DoN’t EvEnLoAd on iT

            also it is so slow and memory inefficient

            ignore any memes about anything also

          • @DigitalPortkey@lemmy.world
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            -47 months ago

            This drives me nuts. I like Chrome. It’s simple, it’s fast, the extensions I want run on it (for now), and I love the Google Account Sync because I have an Android phone. This greatly pisses off people for whatever reason, despite the fact I’ve never had a bad opinion about Firefox and love what they’re doing too, and I never criticize anyone for choosing Firefox.

            As with everything open source communities need nuance and understanding, otherwise they start to feel like cults.

            • @Misconduct@lemmy.world
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              297 months ago

              For whatever reason? They’re trying to DRM the internet lol. You’re certainly entitled to your opinion but there are some pretty big reasons to be mad at Google on a good day. Nobody should take that out on you but I understand the frustration. People letting things slide because it doesn’t bother them specifically until it’s too late is how everything keeps getting worse.

              • Melody Fwygon
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                67 months ago

                There’s no denying that WEI is evil. It may in fact be the feature that kills the Chrome Browser and gets Google fined into poverty.

                But from a user standpoint; I get it. It Just Works. That polish built into Chrome that allows users to sync their browsing sessions across machines? It’s absolutely critical and required.

                The FOSS community has this weird habit of requiring it’s users to make sacrifices to meet it’s values. Where that doesn’t harm the user, their workflows or their convenience in general; users are typically more than happy to do so.

                However; A lot of FOSS and FLOSS projects tend to take ridiculous stances against certain kinds of polish features and will REFUSE to implement them no matter how many people ask. In my opinion; if you want a software project to succeed and overtake massive competition; that’s just stupid. Especially when it’s as easy as forking a repository and baking the “Controversial feature” into the user-friendly fork version.

                If you want to provide a core piece of software and all; sure! Please do that! But a lot of projects don’t, and won’t spend any time on user experience at all; and any kind of work on the UX arises because something is inconvenient for the devs.

                Worse is that oftentimes; the polish features that are being blanket denied and intentionally omitted from the software are in fact not that complicated to implement in a manner that runs consistent with the values of the FLOSS community. Sure; that means that perhaps you do have to host a lot of things yourself to make sure that you truly retain control over your data; but that’s actually pretty easy to learn how to do.

                I do understand the limitations of the average FLOSS project. Unfortunately; a lot of FLOSS and FOSS devs are very quick to decide that they know the best, and will frequently and often refuse to listen to the user. That’s not better. It’s worse. At least when a user is a customer, they have some degree of influence and can exert some small force on development priorities. In the FLOSS community; you can donate every cent you have to a project and it does not necessarily guarantee that you will get a say, or even one request, fulfilled. For some users; that is not better, it is worse.

                We still have a long way to go before we reach a society with the maximum amount of balance between beneficial qualities, and none of the negative qualities, of socialism and capitalism.

                • @kameecoding@lemmy.world
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                  57 months ago

                  firefox can also sync your shit across browsers, I’d argue it does it better than chrome and it just works, I’d argue better than Chrome.

            • @tavu@sopuli.xyz
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              7 months ago

              The nuance is recognising the Google hegemony is supported by choosing Chrome.

              The understanding is realising what is happening to the open web as a result.

            • @MeetInPotatoes
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              47 months ago

              Your comment could be distilled down to “Let people have things” and is still getting downvotes lol. Yeesh.

            • @kameecoding@lemmy.world
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              37 months ago

              firefox also has sync, better even than chrome you literally have a button for checking out what you browsed accross all devices, you can send tabs from. one device to another

        • Orphie Baby
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          7 months ago

          Linux fanaticism drives me crazy. I’m definitely not saying this is true of everyone, but the very nature of Linux seems to attract many elitists who are against unified vision, accessibility, and the unfun amount and types of work required for testing quality and compatibility. The result is that for the foreseeable future, desktop Linux is a mess for everyone, and unusable by the masses. And while I’ll get downvoted for saying that (and for saying the rest of this), I feel like many Linux fanatics secretly like that “normal peasants” can’t effectively use Linux.

          I will take some corporate bullshit that works, over only-half-working FOSS any day of the week. And I’m not shitting on FOSS itself. I’m just saying Linux is a disorganized and unfriendly mess. I never did get any sound whatsoever working on my i7-6700 and MSI gaming motherboard in Ubuntu, no matter how long I screwed around with Linux. And that was just to start. I wanted to love and use Linux, I really did.

          Lastly, I just want to say I’m super happy with the other responses from Linux fans in this thread. They seem to understand that Linux is overrated, isn’t for everyone, doesn’t always work, and that Linux-pushers can be obnoxious. I super appreciate that understanding, fam.

    • Poggervania
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      477 months ago

      100% agree. Going “haha, aren’t I COOL for NOT using this one popular app or software!?” contributes absolutely nothing and actively makes the community uninviting. I’m all for FOSS, but if a closed-source app is better than the FOSS options, I ain’t gonna knock on anybody for using it.

      Also why even use an app outside of accessibility reasons? Been using Kbin on a mobile browser and it’s been a pretty good experience.

    • @snor10@lemm.ee
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      117 months ago

      I don’t understand how promoting FOSS in favor of proprietary software is bad for FOSS?

  • jerieljan
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    2717 months ago

    I don’t get the point of this.

    Since when did Sync masquerade itself as FOSS?

    Just use whatever you want. Isn’t that why we’re all here?

    Is the Sync noise getting to you? Just ignore it. It’s natural since the app just opened up and there were a significant amount of Reddit refugees that badly wanted their app back.

    • Altima NEO
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      297 months ago

      I think it’s more the Lemmy userbase having different expectations than that of the Reddit userbase, with Lemmy being such a shift from Reddit.

    • @drbi@lemmy.world
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      117 months ago

      I agree. SYNC will bring tons of reddit users to lemmy. I for one welcome that change.

    • @jonesy
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      -27 months ago

      I could use this same logic to talk about your comment. People are free to dunk on other apps, so why not just mute the post?

    • Aa!
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      -157 months ago

      Seems to me this has spawned a fair bit of discussion… Which is the actual reason we’re all here.

      Sync has gotten a lot of buzz (I don’t understand why, even on Reddit, rif was always better anyway) and that’s always going to bring out the people who don’t agree, for one reason or another.

      Don’t mistake an opinion you don’t share for anything beyond what it is. I could just as easily parrot your statement back: if you don’t think this discussion is productive, just ignore it. There’s plenty of other discussions to get involved with on Lemmy

      • @Takumidesh@lemmy.world
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        357 months ago

        Sync gained a big following because it had a core feature many many moons ago, when having constant cell service was much less common, it allowed you download and save hundreds of posts and all the comments while you were on wifi, so you could browse reddit offline, it did this automatically and in the background (based on your settings ) hence the name ‘Sync’. This was a killer feature back in the day, at least for me. As that became less of a need, the app continued to change and add a lot of nice features, like lots of customizations, random NSFW, a very good OLED dark mode, etc, so there was no point in switching to something else.

        My .02¢

      • @TheOneAndOnly@lemm.ee
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        97 months ago

        RiF was all I ever used. Never even heard of Sync until I migrated to Lemmy at the end of June. Fwiw, I found Connect rather quickly, and it feels almost exactly like RiF. Enough that it scratches the itch. I tried Sync for about an hour today… It’s fine enough… But I can’t figure out what it has that Connect doesn’t. Maybe it’s just that everyone who used Sync was just comfortable and didn’t want to change. I’m fine with it being a paid app, or subscription, or whatever dude decides to do to help support himself, too…I just don’t get the hubbub when there’s a perfectly excellent free alternative in Connect.

        • @limecool
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          37 months ago

          I will link my comment, which I had written for another person before. Sync for lemmy is currently in beta, so some things may be broken. But, most of it is still true. https://lemmy.ml/comment/834817

        • Aa!
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          7 months ago

          Yeah, Sync was fine, just nothing special for me. I’m pretty sure it’s mostly just people who want the same experience they had on Reddit.

          I adapted to Voyager pretty quickly, and the only real issue I’ve had with it was that it didn’t handle it well when .world went down, but that’s improved enough now. I’m not the biggest fan of the swipe gestures, as they’ve made me accidentally vote on a lot of things without noticing, but it’s nothing I can’t get used to.

          I don’t need it to be exactly like it was before. I’m satisfied with something simple that does the job.

        • @TheOneAndOnly@lemm.ee
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          67 months ago

          Did you use them both? I did not. I can say I loved RiF, but I’d never even heard of Sync until about a month ago. Be interested to hear the opinion of one who’d used both…

          • @wahming@monyet.cc
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            17 months ago

            I have. A lot of it boils down to personal preference in how you prefer your app to behave and look like. Customization can only get you so far. UI aside, they were both pretty feature complete.

  • @OtakuAltair@lemm.ee
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    7 months ago

    Sync is just so much more polished and feature-rich than all of these already… It’s exactly like how it was when it was for reddit, and it’s just one dev! I don’t mind at all paying for a fantastic app.

    You guys are taking the justified corpo hate and extending it to talented individual devs just making a living.

  • @SaddieTheMad@lemmy.world
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    1657 months ago

    I am disliking this sentiment. I am on the Fediverse because Sync’s developer and many others were betrayed by Reddit and I wanted to show solidarity and to ‘punish’ Reddit by leaving. The Fediverse’s values are admirable, but I do not share them all. I believe in supporting good projects, even some that are private if they don’t pose a risk of destroying something bigger, and Sync is a good project that can be easily abandoned without consequences if something goes wrong.

  • KᑌᔕᕼIᗩ
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    7 months ago

    Paid software absolutely has a place in the world. Evil companies producing evil software designed to build a monopoly and lock out FOSS apps do not. I don’t think Sync falls into the latter and I’m happy they’ve made the choice to be able to eat.

  • Eddie
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    1277 months ago

    Tbh, I think this whole thing is being blown out of proportion. Part of FOSS and the internet in general is the ability to have choice over what you use and spend your time with. Just because Sync is out, doesn’t mean you can’t continue to use your FOSS apps. It just means that we now have an option for people who want to pay for a very polished experience.

    • @lhamil64@beehaw.org
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      7 months ago

      I agree. Considering the backlash at reddit for nixing third party apps, you’d think people would praise all the options for Lemmy.

      • @Juno@beehaw.org
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        67 months ago

        The reason I’m on lemmy is I WANT to use weird apps and see different things programmers do. It’s like the post is telling me just get taco bell when there’s a dude selling Mexican grandma style enchiladas out of a food truck and I can go over that corner restaurant and get some fire chimmi-chanagas.

        I like weird stuff. So what about it? God damned people pushing some vanilla boring shit.

        • Eddie
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          57 months ago

          Just ignore them? I don’t see your point here at all. If you don’t want to eat Taco bell, don’t eat it???

          • @Juno@beehaw.org
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            17 months ago

            Right, I’m on a third lemmy app, just saying my 2cents. What’s the problem exactly ?

      • @Whirlybird@aussie.zone
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        7 months ago

        What I find hilarious is that the Sync dev could have simply made a $5/month subscription for the Reddit app and continued on making a fortune from Reddit’s product, but instead told people to come here where there are no API costs…and then starts charging a subscription fee and massive one off payment lol. Oh and the app also has ads if you don’t pay, despite Lemmy itself not having ads lol

        • @OtakuAltair@lemm.ee
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          7 months ago

          Just making a living from his great app. Completely fair.

          You can get rid of ads with a one-time payment of 19.99$. Not a ‘massive one off payment’ at all. I have the subscription though cuz I want to support this fastastic app and dev.

  • @spirinolas@lemmy.world
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    1267 months ago

    If apps were girls:

    I was always in love with Sync. But life happened and we had to go different ways for non-romantic reasons. Some fucker called Spez, long story…

    Eventually I met Voyager and she was great. Any user would be lucky to have her. But Sync was always the one that got away. Everyday I looked at Voyager and thought she was awesome but I was always holding a candle for Sync. But Sync was gone and I had to move on. But I could never really move on.

    But life happened again and Sync was coming back. I had committed to Voyager but, as great as she was, I always thought how she came short of Sync. Sync came back and she was as stunning as I remembered. I couldn’t stay with Voyager. I’m sorry Voyager. You’re an awesome girl but I was pretty much just using you since I couldn’t have Sync.

    I’m a user Voyager, I make no excuses. There, there…

  • @EnderMB@lemmy.world
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    1197 months ago

    I say this as someone that uses FOSS day to day for work, I don’t really give a shit if my Lemmy app is FOSS.

    For me, Sync was Reddit. It’s where 99% of my interaction with Reddit happened. I don’t really give a shit about Lemmy or the fediverse either. I’m here because Sync is a seamless product that gave me the best interface.

    Despite saying that I don’t care about Lemmy or other distributed servers, Sync is basically that sync (lol) for me. Once I map my old subreddits on Lemmy, the experience doesn’t change.

  • @MKBandit@lemmy.world
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    1147 months ago

    Sync is by far the most polished. Everyone acting this is some major company. It’s literally one dude.

  • @FireworkFuse@lemmy.world
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    1117 months ago

    Oh nooooooo someone made a familiar and easy to use app to help people get used to this new ecosystem that can only thrive if people actually show up and use it. What a real shame.

    Are we really being this petty already?

  • @KuroJ@lemmy.world
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    1097 months ago

    I honestly don’t see what the problem is. If you prefer FOSS use FOSS apps.

    I’ve tried every single Lemmy app for iOS and Android, but I can honestly say nothing comes close to how smooth and native Sync feels.

    I wasn’t even a Sync user on Reddit so I didn’t understand the hype, but I get it now. On my Pixel 6 Pro all of the other Lemmy apps had some kind of issues, whether that be random crashes or frame rate issues. But Sync is just so smooth and feature rich.

    I’ve also joined the sync discord and the developer is very clear on what type of data he collects (He doesn’t, but Google may).

    Also with the pricing, if you don’t agree with the price that’s your opinion, but the amount of complaining is ridiculous. He made the app so whatever he wants to charge is his decision. You can also still freely use the app (with ads) so no one is forcing you to buy.

  • @narc0tic_bird@lemm.ee
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    1027 months ago

    I like all the FOSS and community development of different Lemmy clients that’s going on, it’s really awesome and great to see.

    But if Apollo was released for Lemmy, I’d subscribe to Ultra (or buy lifetime) in a heartbeat and only look at alternatives out of interest, not because I’d want to use them as my main Lemmy client. Apollo was just that good.

    Views like this one feel pretty toxic and elitist to me. Let people use Sync if they like it. Let people use their Android phone unrooted if they are fine with it. Heck, let people use Windows if they like it.