Trickle up economics
It’s hardly a trickle either.
Shit, even at a trickle pace…
If I somehow got one single penny from every person on the planet, I’d have about $80,000,000…
Do you have a penny to spare for the cause?.. 😂
you know what’s funny? you still wouldn’t be close to the rich rich people
Why give this guy a penny when I’ll take half a penny
That’s a great idea to lift everyone out of poverty! If we all gave each other a penny we’d all be rich.
I caught myself mid laugh before realizing the reality of that statement.
Yes Marx formalized this opinion.
It’s the owners of the land and the means of production that control all of the wealth.
Now it’s the owners of the holding companies who own the owners of all the rest doing the controlling.
Capitalism is now playing 3D chess
Honestly one of the reasons I fell for a pyramid scheme coming out of high school.
A friend invited me and I went to shit on it and get him out, but the main guy’s whole thing was “everything is a pyramid scheme, at least here you have the chance to build a pyramid beneath you.”
Obviously there were other reasons as old as time, but the argument of “so what, your ‘regular job’ is already a pyramid scheme you can’t win” was pretty rattling to a teenager in 2011.
The difference between a pyramid scheme and a good business is where your money comes from, in a pyramid scheme it comes from the people at the bottom of the pyramid, in a business it comes from selling goods and/or services, that’s not saying I agree with big business, but one is profiting off of legitimate customers, the other is profiting off it’s own “employees”. I nearly got caught into one a few years ago too, until I realized what it was, at that point they had only taken a couple $100 for the interview and sign up stage, i had to block my card for them to never get access again, because even though i didnt complete sign up, thwy kept charging me monthly
What about the stock market? They seem to be pricing companies way higher than they are worth.
Imagine you own a goose that lays golden eggs. It lays one golden egg per year. How much would you sell it for? Probably not one golden egg, but definitely you’d sell if for a million gold eggs. You’d probably settle for maybe 5? 10? 15? Something like that.
Suppose the goose only lays one egg per year now (or none at all!) but it’s still young and most people expect it to start laying four or five or even ten or twenty eggs per year in a few years from now. It’s impossible to tell for sure how many it’ll lay over its life, or when that will happen, or if it will happen at all. NOW how much do you sell it for?
That’s the stock market.
A bunch of investors think a bunch of gooses will start laying a ton more golden eggs soon, and they’re willing to pay big bucks now in exchange for the possibility of that in the future. This isn’t a pyramid scheme or a zero sum game or anything like that. It’s just a prediction of the future which may or may not be correct, and only time will tell.
That’s the description of the very basics of the stock market.
Now do the derivatives, and let’s see why it’s gone to hell.
I’d say it’s more like disguised feudalism. We’re all peasants for the few kings and queens that have all the money at the top.
I don’t think people actually agree on the definition of capitalism itself, I just looked it up and was a little surprised how definitive it is:
an economic and political system in which a country’s trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit.
If you asked whether capitalism is a political system, at least in my random polling, 2 out of 9 respondents said No.
DAE Capitalism bad?
omg me
Yes!
Capitalism is anarchism for shitty people.
If anything this understates the problem.
To all the people here ranting about monetary debt: its not an issue. Money isn’t designed to hold value in the long term. It’s a feature, not a bug.
It’s just really unfortunate for those who play the game as if money were an asset. It’s meant for transactions, not for storage.
It fundamentally is NOT a pyramid scheme. In a pyramid scheme there is no actual product or service of value and simply extracts wealth from the people in lower tiers. Value, or wealth, is simply the byproduct of an equitable transaction between two or more parties.
Except that you’re describing commerce, not capitalism. Capitalism is the idea that the commerce has value, and that one can own the value of the commercial activity. Further, the value of the business is tied to it’s growth.
Further, products and services are never exchanged in an equitable transaction between two parties, because capitalism necessitates a third party, the capitalist. The capitalist must acquire products and services from employees for less than their true value, and then sell them to consumers for more than their true value.
And because capitalism demands growth, one or both of those two margins must continue to expand. This means workers must be pressured to work for less and less, which is why the capitalist opposes social services, universal healthcare, and affordable housing. This also means the capitalism opposes consumer protections, environmental protections, and taxes that provide a functioning society that might interfere with their growth.
Now what happens when every producer and consumer is fighting for the same margins, the same advantages, and the same growth? Then the capitalist seeks new avenues for new capital and new capitalists. Building business on ensuring the growth of business for other capitalists. Selling the idea that you, too, can join us at the top of the pyramid, all the while kicking down ladders they climbed to get there.
So no, the system itself isn’t a pyramid scheme. It’s just an idea that encourages pyramid schemes because it relies on impossible growth, like a cancer eating away at society.
Transactions are often not equitable, and most wealth bubbles up to the people on the top tiers.
Markets are not always fair or efficient but that doesn’t mean capitalism is a pyramid scheme. It is still very much the opposite.
Unregulated capitalism places all of the power in the hands of the wealthy. Even with the amount of regulation in place, the last 4 decades has irrefutably proven that. The transfer of wealth from the bottom 95% to the top 5% has has been insane.
The only reason we need so much regulation is because people are garbage and if they can gain something for nothing, they will. You cannot consider the pure idea of capitalism without also considering the reality of human nature, that it is inherently going to create a pyramid scheme like situation where the top transfer power and wealth to themselves in the largest quantities they can, in spite of pesky things like laws and taxes.
Yes that is true, and you can view wealth distribution as pyramid shaped, but that is not what a pyramid scheme means. As noted the system is very good at producing massive amounts of commodities, distributing them all over the planet, and exchanging them for your labor. If capitalism did nothing useful it would have disappeared long ago.
Global south would like a word.
Like every proponent of capitalism ignores the cheap labor and blatant theft of natural resources the rich nations need to make the line go up.
It’s not the virtue of capitalism that makes our lives so luxurious. It’s the suffering of the rest of the world.
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Much wow
very capitalism
actually all economies are zero sum game. down the drain everything is about ressources rather than labour or energy. the later are the means to transforming the resources. what counts at the end is how much you have to survive and thrive.
Being zero sum gain doesn’t, a pyramid scheme, make.
You couldn’t possibly be more wrong. Whenever two people engage in a transaction and walk away happy, value has been created. A zero sum game would be if the economy were a pie of static shape, where if you have more then I have less. But it isn’t like that. The pie grows, and every time there is an equitable transaction with value being created, the pie gets bigger and everyone is better off. That’s the opposite of a zero sum game.
The Pie is of static shape, and that shape is all the resource planet is holding, and any part party who has more of those ressources means others will have less, the economy 'wealth" of the british empire didn’t grow because it has engaged in equitable transaction with the colonised world (you can never have equitable __ insert something here __ ), they needed more ressources to grow and those ressources were extracted elsewhere
Just the same how the rich countries today aren’t rich because they engage in equitable transactions with the poor world, but because the mecanisme that are put in place makes so those “equitable transactions” favours the hoarding of wealth on one side more than the other.
I’m not interested in a back and forth internet flame war about this, so I’ll just say you are straight up wrong about economics being a zero sum game. This is a very common fallacy that somehow persists, most likely because we are all being squeezed by our corporate overlords for everything we are worth. But that is different from a zero sum game.
If you’re interested then you should google “economics zero sum game fallacy” and learn a bit. Then come back if you are interested in engaging in some more discussion in good faith.
Where does the value that is created come from?
Some retirement saving schemes may be a pyramid scheme. When the population growth stagnates, there will not be enough young people to produce for everyone.
Reminds me of that famous Churchill quote about democracy
Oh I know that one!
I’d say something about democracy, if only I had the internet to look up what I said.
— Winston Churchill
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Capitalism is nothing but allowing freedom and allowing property (in contrast to posession)
Capitalism is a scheme where finite raw materials are being extracted and where finite nature is being destroyed - both on the planetary scale; once we reach the end, it will be the end.
