You say that as if I want to do it for shits and giggles.
Yes, I would love for that to be unnecessary. For people to just look at a person and be able to accurately tell if they are guilty or not. That is not the world we live in.
So in absence of that, I want something to prevent innocent people being punished (to a reasonable degree). Nothing better than a (watered down) trial was invented as far as I know.
It’s just a school expulsion, not prison, and it’s well documented that women don’t go to trial because they know it will be them and their lives on trial, not the rapist, who will very very likely get off. Bringing all that into K12 is just bringing a set of scales that are tipped heavily in the rapist’s favor and a horrific experience for the victim into a school expulsion.
Trump knows the effect this will have, and I expect you do too, but you’re pretending not to. Admittedly Trump is clearly and publicly well practiced at using expensive lawyers to silence women who have been raped and sexually assaulted by him, and I can’t say the same about you, but use your brain and stop defending the Rapist in Chief for watering down consequences for rapists in education.
Ah yes, the catastrophic effect having a person ask questions before they expel someone will have.
You know what, since you clearly don’t care about expelling innocent people and there are many unreported rapist despite no lawyers being involved, let’s just expel everyone. That way, we expel all the rapists. Problem solved.
Because there are clearly no issues with expelling innocent people in your head. It’s not like the mere accusation would follow a person for the rest of their life. I am sure they will have no issue explaining to employers, that it was just an expulsion and they are innocent, that they should be given a job.
All that surely won’t have worse consequences than a lawyer asking questions.
Your characterisation of attack lawyers as mildly asking questions is disingenuous. It’s always full on character-assassination of the already traumatised victim. You also seem to think that lawyers bring truth and clarity where teachers and administrators cannot, and you’re incorrect. The situation in court is currently skewed very badly indeed in favour of rapists. It doesn’t need to be so in school. You’re also dismissing the effect that rape has on girls and women as if it were nothing. You would rather 99 out of 100 guilty rapists get to further traumatise their victim at school. It’s because you don’t care two cents about rape victims, you only care about male impunity, just like your leader Trump
You would rather 99 out of 100 guilty rapists get to further traumatise their victim at school. It’s because you don’t care two cents about rape victims, you only care about male impunity, just like your leader Trump
If your only argument is making up fake numbers and facts and calling me Trump supporter and rape supporter, then there is no point continuing here. I can’t disprove every irrational fear you make up about lawyers in your head.
Never used the word mildly, yes they are uncomfortable pointed questions. I admitted that multiple times. But they are still just questions.
No it is not. You may be surprised to learn that Lawyers are also human who don’t want to traumatize the victims. Hell, even if they were evil and did not care, they won’t do it because it would make them and their client look bad and likely loose them the case.
I believe a process where both sides are represented and able to present their case will bring truth far more often than administrators running the process however they feel like.
Arguably true, but only because rape cases usually lack any supporting evidence. The only way to “unskew” it is to require less evidence, resulting in more convictions of innocent people. I argue that going too far in the direction of “require less evidence” is bad. That is what the whole argument is about.
I disagree
I do not, now who is disingenuous?
Again, trying to attack my character based on your incorrect assumptions about ehat the effects of this policy would be
Your characterisation of attack lawyers as mildly asking questions is disingenuous.
Never used the word mildly, yes they are uncomfortable pointed questions. I admitted that multiple times. But they are still just questions.
“Just” Nope, they’re character assassination putting the victim on trial instead of the perpetrator. Saying it isn’t doesn’t change the reality. Read about it if you care, but you don’t and won’t.
Seems we either disagree on what “character-assasination” means or one of us has flawed understanding of how witness testimony in court works.
Considering how many actual court documents I read through and how many explanations from lawyers how various rules and procedures work I watched, I would be surprised if it was me with the flawed understanding but it is possible. I was never in court myself after all.
But you are still dodging a big issue with your argument. You are saying the same administrators that are so smart they can determine who is guilty on their own without any lawyers, proper process or cross examination are simultaneously dumb enough to be swayed by a character-assasination and would let 99 out of 100 rapists go.
You don’t need to believe me about how harrowing rape trials are for the victims, you just need to read about it even a little bit and you would know, but you have no interest in women’s experiences, or the statistics, you just want impunity for rapists.
If you don’t like being called a Trump supporter, maybe don’t spend so long online criticizing people for calling out the convict and Rapist in Chief for changing the rules to make it easier for his fellow rapists in school to use their wealth to not even get chucked out of the school where their victim is retraumatized every day.
Every time someone mentions that Trump is a rapist himself you start claiming that they only dislike this policy because they’re biased against Trump, where in fact we’re just not very keen on rapists making the rules about whether rapists can get away with rape in schools.
You say that as if I want to do it for shits and giggles.
Yes, I would love for that to be unnecessary. For people to just look at a person and be able to accurately tell if they are guilty or not. That is not the world we live in.
So in absence of that, I want something to prevent innocent people being punished (to a reasonable degree). Nothing better than a (watered down) trial was invented as far as I know.
It’s just a school expulsion, not prison, and it’s well documented that women don’t go to trial because they know it will be them and their lives on trial, not the rapist, who will very very likely get off. Bringing all that into K12 is just bringing a set of scales that are tipped heavily in the rapist’s favor and a horrific experience for the victim into a school expulsion.
Trump knows the effect this will have, and I expect you do too, but you’re pretending not to. Admittedly Trump is clearly and publicly well practiced at using expensive lawyers to silence women who have been raped and sexually assaulted by him, and I can’t say the same about you, but use your brain and stop defending the Rapist in Chief for watering down consequences for rapists in education.
Ah yes, the catastrophic effect having a person ask questions before they expel someone will have.
You know what, since you clearly don’t care about expelling innocent people and there are many unreported rapist despite no lawyers being involved, let’s just expel everyone. That way, we expel all the rapists. Problem solved.
Because there are clearly no issues with expelling innocent people in your head. It’s not like the mere accusation would follow a person for the rest of their life. I am sure they will have no issue explaining to employers, that it was just an expulsion and they are innocent, that they should be given a job.
All that surely won’t have worse consequences than a lawyer asking questions.
Your characterisation of attack lawyers as mildly asking questions is disingenuous. It’s always full on character-assassination of the already traumatised victim. You also seem to think that lawyers bring truth and clarity where teachers and administrators cannot, and you’re incorrect. The situation in court is currently skewed very badly indeed in favour of rapists. It doesn’t need to be so in school. You’re also dismissing the effect that rape has on girls and women as if it were nothing. You would rather 99 out of 100 guilty rapists get to further traumatise their victim at school. It’s because you don’t care two cents about rape victims, you only care about male impunity, just like your leader Trump
If your only argument is making up fake numbers and facts and calling me Trump supporter and rape supporter, then there is no point continuing here. I can’t disprove every irrational fear you make up about lawyers in your head.
Actually, I made ten points, and you ignored almost all of them, as usual.
“Just” Nope, they’re character assassination putting the victim on trial instead of the perpetrator. Saying it isn’t doesn’t change the reality. Read about it if you care, but you don’t and won’t.
Seems we either disagree on what “character-assasination” means or one of us has flawed understanding of how witness testimony in court works.
Considering how many actual court documents I read through and how many explanations from lawyers how various rules and procedures work I watched, I would be surprised if it was me with the flawed understanding but it is possible. I was never in court myself after all.
But you are still dodging a big issue with your argument. You are saying the same administrators that are so smart they can determine who is guilty on their own without any lawyers, proper process or cross examination are simultaneously dumb enough to be swayed by a character-assasination and would let 99 out of 100 rapists go.
You don’t need to believe me about how harrowing rape trials are for the victims, you just need to read about it even a little bit and you would know, but you have no interest in women’s experiences, or the statistics, you just want impunity for rapists.
If you don’t like being called a Trump supporter, maybe don’t spend so long online criticizing people for calling out the convict and Rapist in Chief for changing the rules to make it easier for his fellow rapists in school to use their wealth to not even get chucked out of the school where their victim is retraumatized every day.
Every time someone mentions that Trump is a rapist himself you start claiming that they only dislike this policy because they’re biased against Trump, where in fact we’re just not very keen on rapists making the rules about whether rapists can get away with rape in schools.