Your characterisation of attack lawyers as mildly asking questions is disingenuous.
Never used the word mildly, yes they are uncomfortable pointed questions. I admitted that multiple times. But they are still just questions.
“Just” Nope, they’re character assassination putting the victim on trial instead of the perpetrator. Saying it isn’t doesn’t change the reality. Read about it if you care, but you don’t and won’t.
Seems we either disagree on what “character-assasination” means or one of us has flawed understanding of how witness testimony in court works.
Considering how many actual court documents I read through and how many explanations from lawyers how various rules and procedures work I watched, I would be surprised if it was me with the flawed understanding but it is possible. I was never in court myself after all.
But you are still dodging a big issue with your argument. You are saying the same administrators that are so smart they can determine who is guilty on their own without any lawyers, proper process or cross examination are simultaneously dumb enough to be swayed by a character-assasination and would let 99 out of 100 rapists go.
I didn’t say they would be swayed by it, I said it shouldn’t happen.
I’m amused by your switch from how harrowing a rape trial is for the victim to less specific stuff including some videos from lawyers, but you still, as I predicted, have no intention of reading rape victims accounts because as you’ve made clear again and again, women’s experiences aren’t what you want to understand. I’m not sure the rapist defending lawyers made a lot of videos about how they harangue rape victims in court and drag their reputation through the mud as the standard defence technique. I don’t know why you thought that the lawyers would admit to that on youtube.
Let’s ignore you misreading what I wrote about court documents and procedures and suggesting I instead get information from the most biased and subjective source available.
I didn’t say they would be swayed by it, I said it shouldn’t happen.
Are you arguing the lawyers would do character assassination on rape victims for fun, even though they would know it does not help them win the case?
Because if it did not work, they have no real reason to do it. And if it works, back to my argument about administrators being incapable.
So what actually is your argument? Why shouldn’t be lawyers allowed or even required at the school hearings?
I was under the impression you were afraid they would do character assassinations to get rapists of the hook, further traumatizing the victims. Now you say that is not what you claim and you were just talking about actual courts for some reason?
The character assassination and sex life trashing that lawyers do in rape trials is unnecessary, harrowing for the victims, is based on an illogical argument that a woman who has sex with anyone wants sex with everyone, obstructs justice by letting the vast majority of rapists go free, and should not be allowed in school over an exclusion. Kids get excluded every week over far less, but you just care about the rich rapists being allowed to bring their expensive lawyers in to harass girls for speaking out over sexual violence and stay in the same dining hall as their victims.
Ah yes, so the exact argument I just debunked and unfounded personal insults and liabel. Sounds about right.
Let me repeat it for you one last time.
If the administrators are not able to determine properly who is guilty without lawyers and procedure, then you should add lawyers and procedure or otherwise improve the situation
If they are so smart they are somehow able to do that, they would be able to see through any character assassination and trashing done by lawyers, not taking them into account
If they don’t take character assassinations and thrashing into account, lawyers have no motivation to actually do the harassment you claim they would do
If your whole argument is let’s just expel innocent people because it is better than not expelling a rapist, then go back to all the counterarguments you ignored in previous comments while you focused on mudding the waters with irrelevant (bad faith) arguments about court trials
Really interesting that you call what I said libel!
you should add lawyers and procedure or otherwise improve the situation
The lawyers are what makes the situation worse, not better.
If they are so smart they are somehow able to do that, they would be able to see through any character assassination and trashing done by lawyers, not taking them into account
Making the whole thing an unnecessary ordeal that’s just there to discourage girls from reporting it even to the school.
If they don’t take character assassinations and thrashing into account, lawyers have no motivation to actually do the harassment you claim they would do
It’s all about the victim shaming and humiliation of women. That’s the point of it. And it sways juries.
If your whole argument is let’s just expel innocent people because it is better than not expelling a rapist,
You overuse the “your whole argument” misrepresentation debating technique. If only there were a phrase for that kind of fallacy.
You repeatedly ignore the fact that Trump is a rapist who has a track record of using expensive lawyers to harass women who speak out about it, and that you should have seventy times the skepticism about a rapist changing the rules in favour of rapists, but somehow you can’t hear that without shreiking about bias or ignoring it completely.
Don’t put the lunatics in charge of the asylum, don’t listen to sex offenders proposing changes to how sex offenders are dealt with, and don’t defend rapists who want to change how schools deal with rapists. It really stretches people’s ability to see you as having any sort of rationality or objectivity on the issue when you can’t accept this point.
“Just” Nope, they’re character assassination putting the victim on trial instead of the perpetrator. Saying it isn’t doesn’t change the reality. Read about it if you care, but you don’t and won’t.
Seems we either disagree on what “character-assasination” means or one of us has flawed understanding of how witness testimony in court works.
Considering how many actual court documents I read through and how many explanations from lawyers how various rules and procedures work I watched, I would be surprised if it was me with the flawed understanding but it is possible. I was never in court myself after all.
But you are still dodging a big issue with your argument. You are saying the same administrators that are so smart they can determine who is guilty on their own without any lawyers, proper process or cross examination are simultaneously dumb enough to be swayed by a character-assasination and would let 99 out of 100 rapists go.
I didn’t say they would be swayed by it, I said it shouldn’t happen.
I’m amused by your switch from how harrowing a rape trial is for the victim to less specific stuff including some videos from lawyers, but you still, as I predicted, have no intention of reading rape victims accounts because as you’ve made clear again and again, women’s experiences aren’t what you want to understand. I’m not sure the rapist defending lawyers made a lot of videos about how they harangue rape victims in court and drag their reputation through the mud as the standard defence technique. I don’t know why you thought that the lawyers would admit to that on youtube.
Let’s ignore you misreading what I wrote about court documents and procedures and suggesting I instead get information from the most biased and subjective source available.
Are you arguing the lawyers would do character assassination on rape victims for fun, even though they would know it does not help them win the case?
Because if it did not work, they have no real reason to do it. And if it works, back to my argument about administrators being incapable.
You’re confusing court with school. I’m not.
So what actually is your argument? Why shouldn’t be lawyers allowed or even required at the school hearings?
I was under the impression you were afraid they would do character assassinations to get rapists of the hook, further traumatizing the victims. Now you say that is not what you claim and you were just talking about actual courts for some reason?
The character assassination and sex life trashing that lawyers do in rape trials is unnecessary, harrowing for the victims, is based on an illogical argument that a woman who has sex with anyone wants sex with everyone, obstructs justice by letting the vast majority of rapists go free, and should not be allowed in school over an exclusion. Kids get excluded every week over far less, but you just care about the rich rapists being allowed to bring their expensive lawyers in to harass girls for speaking out over sexual violence and stay in the same dining hall as their victims.
Ah yes, so the exact argument I just debunked and unfounded personal insults and liabel. Sounds about right.
Let me repeat it for you one last time.
Really interesting that you call what I said libel!
The lawyers are what makes the situation worse, not better.
Making the whole thing an unnecessary ordeal that’s just there to discourage girls from reporting it even to the school.
It’s all about the victim shaming and humiliation of women. That’s the point of it. And it sways juries.
You overuse the “your whole argument” misrepresentation debating technique. If only there were a phrase for that kind of fallacy.
You repeatedly ignore the fact that Trump is a rapist who has a track record of using expensive lawyers to harass women who speak out about it, and that you should have seventy times the skepticism about a rapist changing the rules in favour of rapists, but somehow you can’t hear that without shreiking about bias or ignoring it completely.
Don’t put the lunatics in charge of the asylum, don’t listen to sex offenders proposing changes to how sex offenders are dealt with, and don’t defend rapists who want to change how schools deal with rapists. It really stretches people’s ability to see you as having any sort of rationality or objectivity on the issue when you can’t accept this point.